SEQ Fare Review Taskforce

[verbatim9]

It was early 6 journeys then 50% fares.

I liked that scheme when it first came out. Was always a bit excited when Thursday came around

[James]

I'd much rather see a cap on weekends over a 10 then ____ discount.

Most people are using PT on weekdays to get to/from work because it is the best option - it is too expensive to park in the city, the family does not have enough cars to take everybody to their destinations, or perhaps dealing with Brisbane drivers is just too stressful. Any 'side trips' are probably occurring in periods of lower demand or are captured by the 60 minute transfer penality (e.g. buying dinner from the shops).

Weekends, however - the car is consistently winning in travel time due to poor PT services and very competitive parking rates. When you can park in the Myer Centre for $5 on a Saturday, why would you pay $15+ to catch even a half-hourly bus service?Part of this is a policy issue (metered parking needs to be extended to weekend daytimes over more parts of the CBD), but part of this is due to expensive PT. There need to be heavy incentives to get people on PT on weekends. Whether that be one child can travel free with a paying adult, a fare cap or even a weekend rover ticket, there needs to be a decent option to compel people to use PT on weekends.

As it stands, congestion on weekends during the day is starting to get towards levels seen in the shoulder peak - yet the buses are all hourly and running around empty!

[#Metro]

Let's take this to logical conclusion:

10 then free
9 then free
8 then free
7 then free
6 then free
5 then free
4 then free
3 then free
2 then free
1 then free
free <-- not happening

1 then free is effectively a pass, and I like passes.

[BrizCommuter]

If the 9 then free is not replaced by a weekly/monthly zone based fare of some sort, then frequent public transport users will be screwed. If I keep having to pay per journey into the weekend, I might as well drive into the CBD or surrounds at weekends.

Glad to hear that the price/distance may become fairer to shorter distance commuters. Long distance commuters in SE Queensland are have a relatively low cost/distance fare compared to other countries such as the UK and Japan (where in some cases you also have to pay a premium for express services).

[SurfRail]

^ This.

What gets lost in all of the noise is that overwhelmingly most commuters are making journeys of 5 zones distance or less.  These are the people we need to be attracting to the system.

I travel long distance because it suits me, but I'd be prepared to pay more.

[ozbob]

Yo.  Being part of this review process as certainly shown me that actual data (not guesses) is an important determinant in developing recommendations.

Just review the composition of the panel.  We have some of the best experts on fares around (I don't include myself as an ' expert ' just a voice for community  ). 

It is a matter of letting Government work this through.  Despite the attempts by a very mediocre opposition I am confident that when this goes to consultation it will be very well received overall.

Patience ...

It has taken years to get to this point.  A point that the LNP were unable to reach or even attempt.  They are a lazy outfit I am afraid.  A little longer is worth the wait.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> No fare review answers as $40 million rail centre opens

...But passengers on those trains were still no wiser as to how much they would pay to use the public transport network in the future, as Mr Hinchliffe remained coy on when he would release the fare review ordered under his predecessor.

That review would map out what would happen to south-east Queensland public transport network's fare structure in the near future.

Opposition transport spokesman Scott Emerson last week threw a spanner in the government's works when he released details he said were in the report, which was apparently leaked to the LNP.

Mr Emerson said it included cutting down the number of zones from 23 to eight, scrapping the free travel after nine journeys scheme and increasing off-peak discounts from 20 to 30 per cent, while allowing half-price fares for welfare recipients and refugees.

Fairfax Media understands the government was due to release the report last week, before Mr Emerson's release of the information, but pulled its release for a later, undisclosed date.

Mr Hinchliffe would only say it would be in the first half of 2016 and, on Wednesday, he offered no more illumination when asked if Queensland could expect to see the fare review soon

"That's why it is important to have a commitment to, as the Palaszczuk government has, a commitment to fairer fares, to make sure that we can support everyone in the community using our fantastic public transport network, that's supported by facilities such as this one," he said.

When reminded he was asked about timing, Mr Hinchliffe again avoided answering.

"We will be making sure that, as committed to, we will deliver the taskforce review and an appropriate government response in the near future," he said.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 6m

Hey @scottemerson Sydney is getting rid of 8 & free, still wedded to 9 & free? Not sustainable/equitable.
> http://www.ipart.nsw.gov.au/Home/Industries/Transport/Reviews/Public_Transport_Fares/Public_Transport_Fares_in_Sydney_and_Surrounds ... #qldpol

[#Metro]

1-then free!!

[ozbob]

1-then free!!

The endpoint of idiocy!!

[#Metro]

The endpoint of idiocy!!

1-then free can work. It is a weekly pass. You'd have to nominate zones though.

Seriously though, there needs to be a legislated procedure for fare-setting. Announce-Study-Consult-Approve.

[ozbob]

Periodicals are something the present system cannot handle although with the new generation ticketing system all options would be on the table as we move to an accounts based ticketing system.

Free after x is a very flawed fare structure as history has shown.  Even Sydney has wisened up to the rort and the fare box leakage.  In the long run it costs a lot and reduces services.

[ozbob]

[SurfRail]

Blow it out your arse, Sergeant Selfie.

[ozbob]

Mr Emerson, the 9 and free is going because it is a significant fare box leakage and it is not helping make fares affordable at all.  It is the very same reason that Sydney is getting rid of the 8 and free on the Opal - major rort and leakage, simply is not sustainable.

We know that you are personally wedded to the 9 and free, having simply gazumped the botched 10 and free from the previous mob.

Real political leadership is standing up and fixing the failure for the benefit of the overall community.
 
Such leadership  is being displayed by the State Government on this in terms of a proper fare reform process, not desperate knee-jerk fare cuts we saw from the  former Newman Government.

You're welcome!

Onwards!

[ozbob]

Queensland Parliament Hansard

Questions without notice 18th February 2016

https://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/documents/hansard/2016/2016_02_18_DAILY.pdf

Public Transport, Fare Review

Mr EMERSON: My question is to the Minister for Transport. Can the minister guarantee that
no-one will pay more for public transport as a result of Labor's fare review?

Mr HINCHLIFFE: I welcome the question from the shadow minister. It is great to have him joining
the debate on how we deal with fares in this state, because certainly we saw the damage that was done
under his time as transport minister, with patronage down. I welcome the chance to talk about the
government's commitment to public transport investment, the government's commitment to the culture
of public transport and the government's commitment to busting congestion on our roads. This
government is committed to ensuring public transport in Queensland is responsive to the needs of the
community, and that includes being fare, efficient and affordable—absolutely.

As promised we have commissioned an independent fare review task force to establish the basis
for a fare structure that is fair, affordable and most significantly boosts public transport patronage. In
that spirit of fairness, the Palaszczuk government has chosen to freeze fares. Under the LNP, we would
have seen fares increase by 2.5 per cent on 1 January this year and there was no action on making
fares fairer. Under the LNP government's watch, we saw patronage decline by more than two million
trips across the South-East Queensland public transport network. The LNP put almost two million cars
back on the road with their poor public transport policies. This government is a government for all of
Queensland. In addition to freezing fares in South-East Queensland, fares in regional Queensland have
been frozen.

In relation to the current status of the fare review, I have asked the independent fare review task
force to do some additional work. They have met subsequently to prepare advice around how a future
fare system will interact with the next generation ticketing solution, as a procurement process is
currently underway to develop—

Mr EMERSON: I rise to a point of order, Mr Speaker. My question was very clear. I asked the
minister to guarantee that no-one will pay more for public transport as a result of Labor's fare review. It
was a very straightforward question and I am yet to receive an answer.

Mr SPEAKER: Thank you, member for Indooroopilly. I think the final sentence I just heard from
the minister was in relation to the fare review. I call the minister.

Mr HINCHLIFFE: As I was saying, I have asked the fare review task force to do some more work
around that issue and how the fare system will interact with the next generation ticketing system. This
additional work will provide a draft governance framework to establish an independent body to provide
ongoing advice to government about fares. I am very confident that I will be in a great position to advise
the House in the near future about the further work of this committee. I can absolutely assure the
member for Indooroopilly and this House that we will have a fairer fare system for Queensland. We will
have a—
Opposition members interjected.

Mr SPEAKER: Thank you. This is not an opportunity for a debate.

Mr HINCHLIFFE: We will have a better fare system that will support affordability for public
transport in this—

Opposition members interjected.

Mr SPEAKER: Thank you. Minister, this is not an opportunity for the debate. I think you have
answered the question. Can you resume your seat, please.

[ozbob]

" Can the minister guarantee that no-one will pay more for public transport as a result of Labor's fare review? "

Probably not, the people who got up 9 paid journeys on Mondays will probably pay a bit more.  But I think that is perfectly reasonable ...

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 2 minutes ago Brisbane, Queensland

. . @scottemerson asks @StirlHinchliffe a question in Parliament

>> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11614.msg169360#msg169360 ... #qldpol

[#Metro]

Scott Emerson didn't guarantee, he raised fares by 7.5%!

We need an anti-handling procedure / fares change protocol to stop corruption of the fare system every time there is a lead up to an election.

[ozbob]

Twitter

Stirling Hinchliffe ‏@StirlHinchliffe 15 seconds ago

@scottemerson asked his first question in the House today. What was his record as transport minister? #qldpol



================

[James]

The banging on about 'fare affordability' from Emerson really needs to stop. He is making himself look like a total imbecile. He would be better off making in-roads with the ALP not proceeding with BaT, or pointing out Harding trying to make a separate fare zone (free on Friday) in BCC's area.

We need an anti-handling procedure / fares change protocol to stop corruption of the fare system every time there is a lead up to an election.

This issue will fix itself once fares become reasonable again. The whole reason it has become a sore point is because Bligh raised fares, then Newman continued with it to a lesser degree (akin to chopping one arm off instead of two after having both your legs chopped off). Electoral meddling only occurs when there's a problem to fix, fix the problem and there's no more electoral meddling!

[ozbob]

Well said James.  Spot on ...  roll on the fare review ...

[#Metro]

Pollies will meddle with fares if they have the chance - problem or no problem.

It is a cheap vote buyer. Fare freeze also happened in Melbourne with Brumby Gov't and their fares were not very high at all.

[James]

Pollies will meddle with fares if they have the chance - problem or no problem.

It is a cheap vote buyer. Fare freeze also happened in Melbourne with Brumby Gov't and their fares were not very high at all.

And the harm done? Very little. Pollies are going to meddle in things regardless, that is the nature of politics.

[#Metro]

And the harm done? Very little. Pollies are going to meddle in things regardless, that is the nature of politics.

No. The next moves were to abolish a zone, then announce free tram zone which leads to pulling walkers of pavement and into trams leading to overcrowding. In Sydney, rort fare system introduced.

I think a procedure to change the fares - notification, report analysis, public feedback then setting is probably the best. Can you imagine the chaos if fare free friday is implemented?

I think the fares taskforce should do modelling of fare free friday and release it before the BCC election.

[ozbob]

Melbourne is really a basket case now in terms of the fare structure zones etc ...  oh boy ... what. a. mess. All because of knee-jerk polyticks.

They are going to have to sort it eventually.  Oh. what. pain. 

[techblitz]

Mr HINCHLIFFE: As I was saying, I have asked the fare review task force to do some more work
around that issue

[ozbob]

Fare review is ongoing.  Fare review was asked to look at moving to NGTS additional to present TOR as stated by the Minister.  Nothing more to be read into that.

[petey3801]

Something that Emerson and co. Need to figure out is that there will always be winners and losers in this fare review. As long as it is equitable, that's the main thing.

[#Metro]

Emerson dumped his portfolio to BCC, stuffed up the bus review, famously didn't bother to respond (neither his assistant) when we launched the new bus network in Nov 2014, introduced 9-then waste which blew up the fare revenue and facilitated BaT / The Cleveland Solution.

Much of this time was marked by Segways.

There is one thing I do give him credit for in introducing is the 15 minute trains to the QR network. But everything else was quite a disaster!!

Emerson needs to be replaced in the shadow cabinet. Put someone else in there - Steve Minnikin, Tracy Davis or Fiona Simpson. All three have had some experience with the PT portfolio.

[ozbob]

Be happy with either Steve M. or Fiona S.  Both good people IMHO.

The 15 minute train thing was already in plan when LNP elected.  At least they carried it on and it was implemented.

[dancingmongoose]

One of the reasons the findings haven't been released yet is because of the upcoming council elections, isn't it?

[verbatim9]

Probable !

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow now

. @scottemerson @QLDLabor Free after 9 is just a rort Scott. Sydney is killing the free after 8 on Opal, pushes up base fare costs .. #qldpol

[verbatim9]

Is that just a repeat what was in the paper a few weeks ago, but on official letter head?

[Derwan]

Is that just a repeat what was in the paper a few weeks ago, but on official letter head?

Yeah he's stomping his foot, jumping up and down and crying.  But still, no one's listening.  People are onto his crap.  He has no credibility.  Most are happy to wait for the review to take its course.

[petey3801]

And if the Gov't had have released it during the Council election campaigns, he would have been up in arms crying out that Labor was trying to hide the report among all the Council election hype.
Quite simply, he's a mong (or, something I saw the other day, a w@nkpuffin) and was one of (if not THE) worst transport minister this state has seen in a long time, which really is saying something considering some of the previous ministers!

[#Metro]

Emerson needs to go. Nice guy, but if you look at the record it says something completely different:

- Got the train frequency upgraded
- Lost control of own portfolio
- Dropped the ball bus reform (at the same time Auckland put a near-identical review through with minor fuss)
- Introduced 9-then waste
- Cancelled their own fare increase in a pre-election grandstand
- SEGWAYS
- Red Team this, Red Team that, ugh, everything was Red Team's fault
- BaT with all its flaws (incl. no Park Rd Station) and The Cleveland Solution
- COMPLETELY IGNORED New Bus Network Proposal, refusing to comment on any aspect of it from Brisbane Times journalists

AND he is STILL doing it from the opposition benches.

Time for him to go please. Bring in Minninkin , Simpson or Tracy Davis.

[#Metro]

LOOK! SEGWAYS!!!


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-30/emerson-rejects-he-ignored-segways-warnings-for-use-in-qld/4852066

Time to go I think!!