Interesting infrastructure plans and such ...

[James]

I think this image here is a better representation of the 'plan-evaluate-do' cycle in Queensland...

[ozbob]

I think this image here is a better representation of the 'plan-evaluate-do' cycle in Queensland...

^

[Stillwater]

That's it, James, a pollie always wants to be able to stand in front of a media scrum and say: "We have a plan."

Not having a plan is political suicide.  (Remember when, before the election of the LNP Government, Jeff Seeney said his party had an Infrastructure Plan, but it seems the dog ate it.)

And, if you have a plan, it is best that it is a big one.  But, if you can't afford it, you bring down a 20-year plan and frontload the actions with all the pissy stuff -- water bubblers at stations, some painting, new garden beds and some disability upgrades.  All the heavy lifting in a 20-year plan, the evidence reveals, is scheduled for the final five years.  Or as a politician thinks, the election after the next election.

That way you can still argue that you are following the plan (new roses in the garden beds) and, if you are thrown out by the other mob, you argue that your big plans (new rolling stock, new train lines, duplications and fare overview) which had been in the plan have been thwarted by the Opposition gaining government.

The new government then introduces its plan.  It is a better plan, so the argument goes, because the rose bushes have thorns that tear stockings and blind small children.  The new government releases its plan ... with soft cottage garden plants in the up-front years (but no roses) and new rolling stock, new ticketing system, new railways lines and duplications in years 15-20 of a 20-year plan.

[#Metro]

It has been quite a revealing exercise putting all these plans side by side and comparing what was promised.
Some of the proposals are just nuts!


BCC River City Blueprint - shelved.

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/About_planning_and_building_RiverCityBlueprint_Forum_Report.pdf

[Stillwater]

More planning that went wrong or went nowhere ... from the LNP, which failed to deliver on this one:

- We will guarantee the delivery of affordable and efficient transport infrastructure to support sustainable growth on the Sunshine Coast.
- In Government, the LNP will deliver a Sunshine Coast Integrated Transport Plan containing clear delivery timelines for infrastructure and services.

http://www.scec.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Sunshine-Coast-Policy-Booklet-A4-pdf-2010.pdf

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

9th August 2015

Queensland: Good Planning Requires Stability

Greetings,

RAIL Back on Track members are growing increasingly concerned about the 'chop and change' approach to planning in South East Queensland.

Good planning requires a stable policy environment, a measured dose of reality, and ample time for plans to set. This is not what Queensland is delivering.

Excessive quantities of glossy plans, and expensive fancy animations are being produced, with very little actually happening on the ground. Despite all the plans, actual policy is reactionary, and there is a strong tendency to push projects over the horizon.

Cross River Rail is a good example of this dysfunction. After seven years, nobody knows what the Queensland Government wants to build, when, where and how much it will cost. What a complete waste of valuable public servant time and effort this has been with much effort also directed to the Bus and Train (BaT) Tunnel project.  It is interesting to note that the naming competition for this tunnel expressly ruled out acronyms but in another sign of arrogant dysfunction the Newman Government selected the entry that named their tunnel the BaT - an acronym.

Bus network non-reform and fares non-policy has been another example of dysfunction and disaster. Cost-explosive fare increases, which were foisted upon the electorate because the bus network had not been reformed, were then overlaid with a 9-then waste fares policy so that office workers could go home on Friday free, while those struggling on Centrelink payments and the unemployed were slammed with full fares.

The time is right for fundamental reforms.

Firstly, there should be fixed four year political terms. It would not be unreasonable to go further and look at proportional representation options for extra stability.

Secondly, there should be less reliance on Federal Government funding. Treasurer Curtis Pitt should rework the land tax regime and close the loopholes that see billions of dollars in potential revenue thrown away each year by the state.

Thirdly, super portfolios should be abolished. Transport functions should be separated from other portfolio responsibilities, and given to a dedicated transport-only minister.

Good planning requires stability and a large dose of reality. Let's see that it happens.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Reference:

1. Interesting infrastructure plans and such ... http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11578.0

[ozbob]

It has been quite a revealing exercise putting all these plans side by side and comparing what was promised.
Some of the proposals are just nuts!


BCC River City Blueprint - shelved.

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/About_planning_and_building_RiverCityBlueprint_Forum_Report.pdf

Exactly LD.  A serious look at the constant problematic planning failures ... with a little humour here and there. 

We must keep trying, and smiling, and dancing I guess ..       

[ozbob]

Look out George St ....   

[ozbob]

November 2010

[Stillwater]

Queensland should get some real transport plan talent.  Try Martin Scorsese, Quentin Tarantino, Stephen Spielberg or the Coen Brothers.  They would get the animation and music right to the point that the public just might believe one of the plans ... any of the plans ... will get up; or become reality even.

[ozbob]

Now here is a plan 

I think the ' headlight ' effect on the trains might turn this plan into actual works ..  there is a tip for Queensland hey? 

June 2014

[ozbob]

This has happened .. August 2011

July 2014

Yep, definitely need those headlights hey?   

[ozbob]

Crossrail play list

>> https://www.youtube.com/user/CrossrailLtd

[Stillwater]

Looking at the CrossRail2 animation, we can see where Brisbane has gone wrong.  Cross River Rail (for BaT is dead) should, in its new form, be called CRR-1.  This fires the imagination of travellers that there might be a CRR-2.  This would be either an underground extension to the Trout Road Corridor or another underground tunnel, perhaps from Toowong to Newstead-New Farm, that would intersect the first.  We have got to keep the aspiration going.  After all, that is the aim of an Integrated Transport Plan for SEQ.  Got to have a plan.

[ozbob]

That's a good plan!  They can add various numbers to the many iterations hey?

Meanwhile ...  this one always makes me feel warm inside, bit like the firebox of R711 setting out on the Swan Hill pass ..

Lets call this one BeaudesertRailLink1 ...

2013

http://www.councilofmayorsseq.qld.gov.au/docs/2013%20Infrastructure%20Projects/Factsheet_BeaudesertBypass_BeaudesertRail.pdf

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

Letter to the Editor Queensland Times 10th August 2015 page 21

Approach to planning remains dysfunctional

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane's underground rail must look ahead to earn funding

Brisbane's future underground rail project under George Street must mesh with a stand-alone "driverless mini-metro" system in the city's CBD to give the project "more bang for its buck", an experienced tunnelling expert said.

It must also plan for more than one rail track in each direction.

Scott Keniston from the Australian Tunnelling Society will deliver a speech outlining these issues at the University of Queensland on Thursday to re-open public debate about the future of Brisbane's underground rail.

Mr Keniston founded Bamser, a tunnelling advice service for Brisbane until it was bought out by a national management buyout and now operates from Perth to Sydney.

Mr Keniston has advised the New South Wales' government on its North West Rail metro system – Australia's first driverless metro system - and has advised the past two Queensland Governments on the Cross River Rail and Legacy Way tunnels.

"One of the key things that the new government needs to take into consideration is that the George Street corridor is a one-time deal," Mr Keniston said."The alignment works really well, but are two tracks though that corridor really enough given that there is only one Roma Street?" he asked.

Mr Keniston said Brisbane has had cross-river link suggestions for 90 years well before Labor's Cross River Rail and the LNP's Bus and Train Tunnel in the past decade.

"We have actually had 90 years of proposals - and some of them very credible - which haven't been built," Mr Keniston said.

"And the reason for that is funding," he said.

"And if you are going to compete for funding you need to have the 'best bang for buck' and get more for less."

Mr Keniston will on Thursday recommend a three-pronged approach to give the new Cross River Rail "more bang for the buck."

1 - Using a 'driverless metro system' around the inner-city; similar to Bucharest.

2 - Including extra underground train lines under George Street, but not adding the trackwork until needed.

3 - Planning for a time 15 to 20 years ahead, when Brisbane's busways are all light rail.

Mr Keniston said all of Brisbane's busways were built to be switched to light rail.

He said the idea of an 'inner-city metro' – separate but meshed to the new version Cross River Rail – had first been considered by Campbell Newman as Brisbane's lord mayor in 2011.

"I had spoken to him two days beforehand and given him a presentation on how cost-effective a metro system might be," Mr Keniston said.

Mr Keniston said the scheme was shouted down in the media before figures could be checked to see if they could be achieved.

"And then shortly thereafter he went off and declared that he would run for premier and the idea never went any further."

Mr Keniston - who has a background in undergound mine engineering – said the incremental cost in providing the extra space under George Street would not be significant in the overall cost.

"It is not necessary to fit them out with tracks, but to create the (underground) space and have one eye on the future is appropriate," he said.

He will on Thursday suggest the tunnels under George Street be dug by "road headers" and not tunnel boring machines, because TBM's provide only a circular tunnel – not flexible enough - and "road headers" could save one year in construction time and costs.

However Mr Keniston said his strongest argument was that Brisbane needed to plan for 15 to 20 years in the future when most of Brisbane's busways have been converted to light rail and "driverless metro" system ran through the inner-city.

Features of a metro system

- Driverless tram-like carriages running in a circuit;

- Stations are 800 metres to a kilometre apart;

- no timetables, just high frequency service around the inner-city;

- More standing rather than sitting passenger areas.

Mr Keniston said "metro" was inevitable in inner-city Brisbane.

"Almost certainly Brisbane will get metro," he said.

"There are already comparable cities around the world with comparable population densities have managed to fund and operate driverless metro," he said.

He named Bucharest in Romania - with its six metro lines - as a similar case to Brisbane.

Bucharest has a large urban area and a population of about 2.2 million residents, while Brisbane – which includes Australia's largest local authority - has around 2.3 million residents.

"Driveless metro is very much the norm now and is being rolled out in very similar environments around the world," he said.

"For Brisbane it's a case of when, not if, is probably the summary."

Funding issues

Mr Keniston said capturing value uplift - the rising value of properties close to good infrastructure - was the model to explore.

"There are a number of stakeholders which already benefit from the alignment being chosen," he said.

"And they get that by default.

"The government benefits most by controlling most of the land around the future George Street station .

"But others will be taken on the journey and currently will garner that uplift in value for free.

"But I imagine that the opportunities to build on or around the stations would be something that the state  would be interested in valuing potentially for a transaction."

Scott Keniston speaks on Thursday at University of Queensland's Advanced Engineering Building; Room: 49-301 from 5.30pm for 6pm.

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

[verbatim9]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane's underground rail must look ahead to earn funding

Brisbane's future underground rail project under George Street must mesh with a stand-alone "driverless mini-metro" system in the city's CBD to give the project "more bang for its buck", an experienced tunnelling expert said.

It must also plan for more than one rail track in each direction.

Scott Keniston from the Australian Tunnelling Society will deliver a speech outlining these issues at the University of Queensland on Thursday to re-open public debate about the future of Brisbane's underground rail.

Mr Keniston founded Bamser, a tunnelling advice service for Brisbane until it was bought out by a national management buyout and now operates from Perth to Sydney.

Mr Keniston has advised the New South Wales' government on its North West Rail metro system – Australia's first driverless metro system - and has advised the past two Queensland Governments on the Cross River Rail and Legacy Way tunnels.

"One of the key things that the new government needs to take into consideration is that the George Street corridor is a one-time deal," Mr Keniston said."The alignment works really well, but are two tracks though that corridor really enough given that there is only one Roma Street?" he asked.

Mr Keniston said Brisbane has had cross-river link suggestions for 90 years well before Labor's Cross River Rail and the LNP's Bus and Train Tunnel in the past decade.

"We have actually had 90 years of proposals - and some of them very credible - which haven't been built," Mr Keniston said.

"And the reason for that is funding," he said.

"And if you are going to compete for funding you need to have the 'best bang for buck' and get more for less."

Mr Keniston will on Thursday recommend a three-pronged approach to give the new Cross River Rail "more bang for the buck."

1 - Using a 'driverless metro system' around the inner-city; similar to Bucharest.

2 - Including extra underground train lines under George Street, but not adding the trackwork until needed.

3 - Planning for a time 15 to 20 years ahead, when Brisbane's busways are all light rail.

Mr Keniston said all of Brisbane's busways were built to be switched to light rail.

He said the idea of an 'inner-city metro' – separate but meshed to the new version Cross River Rail – had first been considered by Campbell Newman as Brisbane's lord mayor in 2011.

"I had spoken to him two days beforehand and given him a presentation on how cost-effective a metro system might be," Mr Keniston said.

Mr Keniston said the scheme was shouted down in the media before figures could be checked to see if they could be achieved.

"And then shortly thereafter he went off and declared that he would run for premier and the idea never went any further."

Mr Keniston - who has a background in undergound mine engineering – said the incremental cost in providing the extra space under George Street would not be significant in the overall cost.

"It is not necessary to fit them out with tracks, but to create the (underground) space and have one eye on the future is appropriate," he said.

He will on Thursday suggest the tunnels under George Street be dug by "road headers" and not tunnel boring machines, because TBM's provide only a circular tunnel – not flexible enough - and "road headers" could save one year in construction time and costs.

However Mr Keniston said his strongest argument was that Brisbane needed to plan for 15 to 20 years in the future when most of Brisbane's busways have been converted to light rail and "driverless metro" system ran through the inner-city.

Features of a metro system

- Driverless tram-like carriages running in a circuit;

- Stations are 800 metres to a kilometre apart;

- no timetables, just high frequency service around the inner-city;

- More standing rather than sitting passenger areas.

Mr Keniston said "metro" was inevitable in inner-city Brisbane.

"Almost certainly Brisbane will get metro," he said.

"There are already comparable cities around the world with comparable population densities have managed to fund and operate driverless metro," he said.

He named Bucharest in Romania - with its six metro lines - as a similar case to Brisbane.

Bucharest has a large urban area and a population of about 2.2 million residents, while Brisbane – which includes Australia's largest local authority - has around 2.3 million residents.

"Driveless metro is very much the norm now and is being rolled out in very similar environments around the world," he said.

"For Brisbane it's a case of when, not if, is probably the summary."

Funding issues

Mr Keniston said capturing value uplift - the rising value of properties close to good infrastructure - was the model to explore.

"There are a number of stakeholders which already benefit from the alignment being chosen," he said.

"And they get that by default.

"The government benefits most by controlling most of the land around the future George Street station .

"But others will be taken on the journey and currently will garner that uplift in value for free.

"But I imagine that the opportunities to build on or around the stations would be something that the state  would be interested in valuing potentially for a transaction."

Scott Keniston speaks on Thursday at University of Queensland's Advanced Engineering Building; Room: 49-301 from 5.30pm for 6pm.

Looks like what's been said in this thread all along build the shell then add the tracks, electrification station and fit outs  later for the Cross river Rail alignment (George St)

[verbatim9]

Brisbanetimes --> Brisbane's underground rail must look ahead to earn funding

Brisbane's future underground rail project under George Street must mesh with a stand-alone "driverless mini-metro" system in the city's CBD to give the project "more bang for its buck", an experienced tunnelling expert said.

It must also plan for more than one rail track in each direction.

Scott Keniston from the Australian Tunnelling Society will deliver a speech outlining these issues at the University of Queensland on Thursday to re-open public debate about the future of Brisbane's underground rail.

Mr Keniston founded Bamser, a tunnelling advice service for Brisbane until it was bought out by a national management buyout and now operates from Perth to Sydney.

Mr Keniston has advised the New South Wales' government on its North West Rail metro system – Australia's first driverless metro system - and has advised the past two Queensland Governments on the Cross River Rail and Legacy Way tunnels.

"One of the key things that the new government needs to take into consideration is that the George Street corridor is a one-time deal," Mr Keniston said."The alignment works really well, but are two tracks though that corridor really enough given that there is only one Roma Street?" he asked.

Mr Keniston said Brisbane has had cross-river link suggestions for 90 years well before Labor's Cross River Rail and the LNP's Bus and Train Tunnel in the past decade.

"We have actually had 90 years of proposals - and some of them very credible - which haven't been built," Mr Keniston said.

"And the reason for that is funding," he said.

"And if you are going to compete for funding you need to have the 'best bang for buck' and get more for less."

Mr Keniston will on Thursday recommend a three-pronged approach to give the new Cross River Rail "more bang for the buck."

1 - Using a 'driverless metro system' around the inner-city; similar to Bucharest.

2 - Including extra underground train lines under George Street, but not adding the trackwork until needed.

3 - Planning for a time 15 to 20 years ahead, when Brisbane's busways are all light rail.

Mr Keniston said all of Brisbane's busways were built to be switched to light rail.

He said the idea of an 'inner-city metro' – separate but meshed to the new version Cross River Rail – had first been considered by Campbell Newman as Brisbane's lord mayor in 2011.

"I had spoken to him two days beforehand and given him a presentation on how cost-effective a metro system might be," Mr Keniston said.

Mr Keniston said the scheme was shouted down in the media before figures could be checked to see if they could be achieved.

"And then shortly thereafter he went off and declared that he would run for premier and the idea never went any further."

Mr Keniston - who has a background in undergound mine engineering – said the incremental cost in providing the extra space under George Street would not be significant in the overall cost.

"It is not necessary to fit them out with tracks, but to create the (underground) space and have one eye on the future is appropriate," he said.

He will on Thursday suggest the tunnels under George Street be dug by "road headers" and not tunnel boring machines, because TBM's provide only a circular tunnel – not flexible enough - and "road headers" could save one year in construction time and costs.

However Mr Keniston said his strongest argument was that Brisbane needed to plan for 15 to 20 years in the future when most of Brisbane's busways have been converted to light rail and "driverless metro" system ran through the inner-city.

Features of a metro system

- Driverless tram-like carriages running in a circuit;

- Stations are 800 metres to a kilometre apart;

- no timetables, just high frequency service around the inner-city;

- More standing rather than sitting passenger areas.

Mr Keniston said "metro" was inevitable in inner-city Brisbane.

"Almost certainly Brisbane will get metro," he said.

"There are already comparable cities around the world with comparable population densities have managed to fund and operate driverless metro," he said.

He named Bucharest in Romania - with its six metro lines - as a similar case to Brisbane.

Bucharest has a large urban area and a population of about 2.2 million residents, while Brisbane – which includes Australia's largest local authority - has around 2.3 million residents.

"Driveless metro is very much the norm now and is being rolled out in very similar environments around the world," he said.

"For Brisbane it's a case of when, not if, is probably the summary."

Funding issues

Mr Keniston said capturing value uplift - the rising value of properties close to good infrastructure - was the model to explore.

"There are a number of stakeholders which already benefit from the alignment being chosen," he said.

"And they get that by default.

"The government benefits most by controlling most of the land around the future George Street station .

"But others will be taken on the journey and currently will garner that uplift in value for free.

"But I imagine that the opportunities to build on or around the stations would be something that the state  would be interested in valuing potentially for a transaction."

Scott Keniston speaks on Thursday at University of Queensland's Advanced Engineering Building; Room: 49-301 from 5.30pm for 6pm.

I am excited for the potential of light rail from Chermside to Springwood, but will the busses share the space similar to Seattle?

[ozbob]

An automated metro will be needed eventually.

As far as busways > light rail.  I do not think that is necessary or achievable.  What is more likely will be electric super buses on the busways, eventually autonomous.

[Stillwater]

Ninety years of planning!    And still the state government cannot perfect a way whereby planners can design a printing press to print money.

[verbatim9]

An automated metro will be needed eventually.

As far as busways > light rail.  I do not think that is necessary or achievable.  What is more likely will be electric super buses on the busways, eventually autonomous.

Ah! and driverless will be run by Google

[James]

Really, I don't understand the hate for BRT. At the moment it carries actual passenger capacity in the capacity range of LRT, and the way the SE Busway is run in particular, BRT would be far more preferable.

Electrified tri-articulated buses would do the same job as a tram except on rubber tyres, provided they were given bus lanes. You can then run it along Mains Rd out to Browns Plains and out to Springwood without spending huge amounts of money on metal tracks. Similarly, an electrified bus could run out to Zillmere/Carseldine. It also means buses can still enter the inner busway, yet gives cause for passengers from the outer BUZes to transfer to the BRT.

On the note of a metro: Just build CRR1 already. It is not that difficult.

[ozbob]

Solved!   

Brisbanetimes --> Trackless train to run at South Bank in six-month trial

[Stillwater]

So..... Along-The-River-Rail?

[ozbob]

So..... Along-The-River-Rail?

Couriermail Quest --> New transport idea for South Bank slammed by The Gabba ward councillor Helen Abrahams

Even a toy train is politics in banana-land ... 

What hope CRR1 ?   

[pandmaster]

Couriermail Quest --> New transport idea for South Bank slammed by The Gabba ward councillor Helen Abrahams

Even a toy train is politics in banana-land ... 

What hope CRR1 ?   

Oh dear. We are screwed.

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

October 2011

[ozbob]

March 2011

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

[ozbob]

Both these vids very interesting but the last 5 minutes of part 2 is particularly so ...

[ozbob]

Merivale bridge was funded by Federal and State Governments. 

Which again shows how far off the pace is Abbott.  He simply has to go along with his knitting  ..

Meanwhile .. dance on ..   

[hU0N]

I think all trains going over the Merivale Bridge should play the music from the last minute of the part 2 video as they cross. It'd be a nice feature.

[ozbob]

I think all trains going over the Merivale Bridge should play the music from the last minute of the part 2 video as they cross. It'd be a nice feature.

Be a lovely touch .. 

[ozbob]