Legacy way - buses

[STB]

^ Because it is BCC. They essentially have free roam. They'd probably refuse to pay the fine and say that it is actually a benefit to passengers.

Heh, BCC/Quirk would probably use the opportunity to attack the State Government for doing something like that, re: fining them for going off route, then they would just cover the cost of it themselves via ratepayers and make themselves look good in the process somehow.

[ozbob]

P443  inbound trial < 

[ozbob]

Any one up for a ride?

Basic plan Indooroopilly bus station 444 7.09am to Moggill Rd at Kenmore Central stop 35.

P443 departs 7.29, 7.39, 7.48am from stop 37.

Might head out this Thursday morning (2 Jul 2015).

[#Metro]

Take the Courier Mail along with you! LOL

[SurfRail]

Outbound (which doesn't exist) would be the only workable time for me, so won't be there sorry.

[ozbob]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2015/06/legacy-of-failure.html
The BrizCommuter word on this Legacy of Failure.

Well said.  It is a very sad indictment on the three levels of Government.  Utter failure to deliver for the community.

[OzGamer]

 It occurs to me that the Centenary City Precincts routes (P457, P458, P459) would be better candidates for the Legacy Way, doing something like the maroon line below and doing the city part essentially in reverse:

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-27.4662687,153.0037165,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!6m1!1szDyOXzPc-c-o.kcDzii-w6zgc

By the way, can anyone tell me how I can link to this so that you can see it right in the message?

[ozbob]

The link ..

> https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-27.4662687,153.0037165,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!6m1!1szDyOXzPc-c-o.kcDzii-w6zgc

Is not public.  So cannot be seen.

[verbatim9]

It should of incorporated design and construction into the inner northern busway near where the bus holding bay is, just past Roma St Station.

[OzGamer]

The link ..

> https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-27.4662687,153.0037165,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!6m1!1szDyOXzPc-c-o.kcDzii-w6zgc

Is not public.  So cannot be seen.

Sorry - I think it should be accessible now.

[James]

Any one up for a ride?

Basic plan Indooroopilly bus station 444 7.09am to Moggill Rd at Kenmore Central stop 35.

P443 departs 7.29, 7.39, 7.48am from stop 37.

Might head out this Thursday morning (2 Jul 2015).

I'd be up for a ride. Will probably just drive to the stop and park nearby, counter peak bus options UQ - Indro are abysmal.... Would ideally go for the earliest P443 service as I have things on later in the day.

[ozbob]

 

I plan to catch the first P443 of the times I have listed (7.29am, the outbound 444 is due at Kenmore at 7.21am), the other times just in case late or something ..

[ozbob]

I just tested periscope - live broadcast app via twitter, but it only saves for 24 hours.  Bit pointless, was thinking of attempting a live broadcast from the bus but probably will not work in the tunnel itself.

So will probably just video it for later playback.

[ozbob]

At Goodna rail.... Heading to Indro... 

[ozbob]

At Indro. Outbound 444 five minutes late at present...

[ozbob]

So probably be 7.39am p443

[ozbob]

Made the 7.29am..  Arrived at Roma St 7.50am ...  Herston bus station 7.45am good run in ... 

Not much traffic school hols not many vehicles in Legacy Way

16 min from stop 37 Kenmore to Herston bus station

[James]

Service is scheduled to come in to Roma St at 8:09am. Possible that time savings are larger than what one would expect due to the fartsing around required to get from Coro Drive to Roma St bus station on the old P443 route. I'd say a lot of time saved though would have been due to school holiday traffic.

I was on the trip with Bob, one passenger got off at Herston, but aside from that all passengers getting off at Roma St/KGS. Market will probably grow in time, probably even more so if they fix up the shambles with the outbound.

[ozbob]

Some photographs from the trip on the P443 Rocket via Legacy Way today ..



































Photographs R Dow 2 July 2015

[ozbob]

Short video inside the Legacy Way tunnel on the P443 bus today

Photograph R Dow 2 July 2015

[ozbob]

What a disaster the lack of a bus connection from Legacy Way to INB as originally planned for,  is for the west.  Massive potential.

Let down by BCC, State and Federal Governments.  It is not too late to fix it up so that ' 2000 express buses daily ' can use it ...

[ozbob]

Go card for the journey (Senior)

05:38 AM    Goodna    06:12 AM    Indooroopilly    $ 2.62         $ 17.53
07:14 AM    Indooroopilly Shopping Centre - Platform A    07:22 AM    'Kenmore Central' Moggill Road    $ 1.67         $ 15.86
07:28 AM    'Kenmore Central' Moggill Road    07:50 AM    Roma St Bus Station Platform 2    $ 0.66         $ 15.20
07:52 AM    Roma Street    08:36 AM    Goodna    $ 0.65         $ 14.55

[techblitz]

What a disaster the lack of a bus connection from Legacy Way to INB as originally planned for,  is for the west.  Massive potential.

Let down by BCC, State and Federal Governments.  It is not too late to fix it up so that ' 2000 express buses daily ' can use it ...

yep...sort of goes against the bus centric direction for this city that they are promoting doesnt it?........speedier + frequent bus routes paves the way for future T.O.D development...

[verbatim9]

Very quick similar to route 330 via Airport link and 77 via Clem 7

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

2nd July 2015

Re: P443 Rocket Bus trial via Legacy Way

Greetings,

I was able to go for a trip on the P443 Rocket Bus from Kenmore to Roma St station via Legacy Way this morning.

Time from bus stop 37 at Kenmore to Herston bus station was 16 minutes by bus.

Full details including photographs are available here > http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11508.msg158242#msg158242

It is truly a public transport  disaster the lack of a bus connection from Legacy Way to Inner Northern Busway as originally planned for.

Let down by BCC, State and Federal Governments has been our community, again. 

It is not too late to fix it up so that ' 2000 express buses daily ' can use it ... is it?

It would be of great benefit to the community for Legacy Way to be properly enabled for buses as was originally proposed by then Lord Mayor Campbell Newman, in 2010.

This would be a great project to set about doing right now.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

19th June 2015

P443 Rocket Bus trial via Legacy Way

Good Morning,

A trial of the P443 Rocket Bus via Legacy Way is welcome.  However it does expose the failure to properly enable Legacy Way for buses as indicated by the former Lord Mayor of Brisbane Campbell Newman (see below).

Because the bus connection from Legacy way to Inner Northern Busway was not done, buses using Legacy Way tunnel really have a circuitous route at the CBD end, particularly outbound which works against faster journey times.

The P443 bus service is a peak hour service only.  The present timetable has 7 peak inbound services, and 6 peak outbound services.

A long way from the claimed ' 2000 express buses daily' ..

Must be an election looming.

The Legacy Way bus connection failure is a 'world class' example of poor politics and failed transport planning in the ' smarter state ' ..

Oh. dear.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

30th May 2015

Re: SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!

Good Morning,

If the Legacy Way bus bull isn't enough deceit.  We can add the BaT tunnel propaganda exercise ( http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2034.msg156875#msg156875 )  to the deceit pedalled by our failed Governments.

What a shocking situation we have with public transport in Queensland.  Will the incompetence and misrepresentation be rewarded?  Of course, it is in their DNA ..

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

16th May 2015

SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!

Greetings,

Lots of hype building concerning Legacy Way.  The way the community has been conned concerning the lack of a bus connection from Legacy Way to the Inner Northern Busway is deplorable.  But it again highlights the failing attitude of Governments, Brisbane City Council and the transport authorities with respect to public transport.

Here is the letter where the former Lord Mayor of Brisbane stated up to 2000 daily express buses on Northern Link (the original name for Legacy Way).



We note a Queensland Parliament E-petition for the extension of the Eastern Busway.

Prioritise the Eastern Busway completion to Redland City

>> http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au/work-of-assembly/petitions/e-petition?PetNum=2388

This petition is being promoted by the Deputy Mayor.  Amazing hypocrisy that Council, State and Federal Governments could not find the $50M to enable Legacy Way for ' 2000 express buses daily '  out of project savings,  but think that a billion dollars or more for a busway extension is fine ..

=============================================



Media release 4 March 2012 re-released 16th May 2015

SEQ: Legacy way's 2000 daily express buses - we don't believe it Campbell!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has highlighted the promise that 'bus users will be able to benefit with up to 2000 express buses able to use Northern Link each day' (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track at the time doubted claims whether 2000 'express' buses per day was truly genuine (see calculations below) and wondered if it was just 'transit-wash', which is using fringe benefits of public transport to curry up favour for a road project whose actual purpose is to provide more road space and resources for car travel (2)."

Calculations

2000 express buses
18 hours per day 2000 buses / 18 hours of service = 111 buses per hour on average
60 minutes in one hour = 3600 seconds in one hour
3600 seconds in one hour / 111 buses per hour
is a bus every 32 seconds
(or assuming all the trips are return trips, a bus a minute).

"One of the most audacious publicly obvious failings in Western Suburbs transport planning was boasting about making a $300 million dollar 'saving' on Legacy Way but then, in the same release, claiming that $50 million dollars could not be found for a bus interconnection to the busway to allow council's own buses to use the Legacy Way (Northern Link Tunnel)"

"The idea of public transport being able to use Legacy Way appears to have been set up to fail and nothing but 'transit-wash'.

"Brisbane City Council is continuing its bizarre record of removing bus lanes from Brisbane's most unreliable road - Coronation Drive, so that its own bus services carrying its own ratepayers are all slowed down and bus operating costs for its own fleet are increased."

"RAIL Back On Track again calls for the total abandonment of 'balanced transport' policies and a shift to 'rebalanced transport' based around walking, cycling, buses, ferries and rail."

References

1. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4459.msg35456#msg35456

2. Greenwashing, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

========================

Farce!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

The (old) inbound P443 timetable has arrival at Roma St at 8.09am.  We arrived today at 7.50am.

[verbatim9]

That's good timing! Commuters out that way must be happy with that, but its school holidays. See if there is a difference when school term resumes. Always heavier traffic volumes during school terms

[hU0N]

Was there any sign of getting stuck on the M5 between Moggill Road and the tunnel portal (due to traffic queueing to exit at Toowong)?

[ozbob]

Was there any sign of getting stuck on the M5 between Moggill Road and the tunnel portal (due to traffic queueing to exit at Toowong)?

Didn't appear to be.  Tunnel entry is via centre & right lanes so it will probably flow reasonably well.

My impression overall is that this a much better project in terms of utility/design (putting aside the bus connection issue) than Clem 7. 
But I have only ever been through Brisbane road tunnels on buses, never by private vehicle .. 

[HappyTrainGuy]

Was there any sign of getting stuck on the M5 between Moggill Road and the tunnel portal (due to traffic queueing to exit at Toowong)?

Didn't appear to be.  Tunnel entry is via centre & right lanes so it will probably flow reasonably well.

My impression overall is that this a much better project in terms of utility/design (putting aside the bus connection issue) than Clem 7. 
But I have only ever been through Brisbane road tunnels on buses, never by private vehicle .. 

It's a pitty the 77 isn't sent to the Aspley interchange and then ran via the Airport link+Clem7 tunnels The time savings during peak hour would be insane! Mind blowingly insane! Just imagine how great it would be if the network was set up as a feeder network. North-South trips would be the big winner. As it is now during peak hour Chermside-Griffith Uni is a 30 minute trip by bus (quickest I've ever done that in morning peak hour was 26-27 minutes and ended up at my final destination in Sunnybank something like 35 minutes earlier than the JP said on the 330+130/140). You could then increase the 111 frequency, have dedicated vehicles, extend to Chermside and then go to town on cutting routes at interchanges/busway stops. Ahhhh the possibilities. Sorry for going off topic

[ozbob]

Media release 3rd July 2015



SEQ: Enable Legacy Way for buses as a priority

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls on the Brisbane City Council and State Government to immediately fix the failure to properly enable Legacy Way for the promised ' 2000 express buses daily '.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The 3 month trial of running the P443 Rocket Express inbound bus via Legacy Way has already demonstrated the massive potential benefit for western bus commuters that could be delivered by connecting Legacy Way to the Inner Northern Busway."

"Yesterday, the bus that departed stop 37 at Kenmore at 7.29am arrived at Roma St bus station at 7.50am.  This is 19 minutes better than the normal timetable for this bus service.  This is despite the bus having to take a circuitous route onto the INB at Herston."

"This failure with Legacy Way must never be repeated.  It is a sad indictment on Council and Governments. The thing to do now is to fix it! This is a relatively low cost project with massive benefit."

"Any leaders in Queensland?"

References:

1. P443 Rocket Bus trial via Legacy Way http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=11508.msg158242#msg158242

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[BrizCommuter]

It's a pitty the 77 isn't sent to the Aspley interchange and then ran via the Airport link+Clem7 tunnels

That would be a bummer for those who board the 77 in Windsor (many interchanging from FG Line)!
No point running fantasy bus services through tunnels if it misses its market.

"Yesterday, the bus that departed stop 37 at Kenmore at 7.29am arrived at Roma St bus station at 7.50am.  This is 19 minutes better than the normal timetable for this bus service.  This is despite the bus having to take a circuitous route onto the INB at Herston."

Interesting. A Brisbanetimes story today (though in school holiday traffic and using Milton Rd) found only a 4 min 10sec time saving using Legacy Way. 
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/legacy-way-vs-milton-road-which-is-faster-for-brisbane-commuters-20150702-gi3wqn.html

[dancingmongoose]

"Yesterday, the bus that departed stop 37 at Kenmore at 7.29am arrived at Roma St bus station at 7.50am.  This is 19 minutes better than the normal timetable for this bus service.  This is despite the bus having to take a circuitous route onto the INB at Herston."

Interesting. A Brisbanetimes story today (though in school holiday traffic and using Milton Rd) found only a 4 min 10sec time saving using Legacy Way. 
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/legacy-way-vs-milton-road-which-is-faster-for-brisbane-commuters-20150702-gi3wqn.html

Faster than the timetabled run, which would be made to accommodate peak hour including school traffic. On that particular day the trip via Milton Road would probably been faster than the timetabled run too, just not as much

[bcasey]

I think we should wait till school and uni semesters start back before coming to any conclusions. It may prove to be faster to go via the tunnel due to the higher congestion on the surface roads, but it also depends on how much demand has been diverted over to the tunnel as well. Can't really say unless we have some data under higher congestion circumstances. The Brisbane Times article does make mention of the fact they did the test during school holidays.

[ozbob]

The P443 will always be faster inbound via Legacy Way than the normal route.  The degree of difference will probably be a lot more significant when Milton Road etc. congests up with heavier traffic.

The point is the failure to not build the bus connection.  No amount of waffle can disguise that.

Time to get on with it.  Enough of mediocrity for transport planning for Brisbane!!   

[ozbob]

^ Political staffers' transport planner toy .. yes it's a waffle bus!!

[James]

Interesting. A Brisbanetimes story today (though in school holiday traffic and using Milton Rd) found only a 4 min 10sec time saving using Legacy Way. 
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/legacy-way-vs-milton-road-which-is-faster-for-brisbane-commuters-20150702-gi3wqn.html

I'd say the difference may be higher for buses due to the slow routing taken by the P443 from Coro Drive into the INB (via Skew St and those traffic signals which are signalled against the flow of 4XX buses into the INB).

As I mentioned earlier though, one can't really pass judgement until school goes back - the traffic was VERY light given the M5 between Indro and Toowong is often a carpark. I'll be interesting to see after Uni gets back how many people will use the P443 for the direct QUT KG connection.

[BrizCommuter]

I'll be interesting to see after Uni gets back how many people will use the P443 for the direct QUT KG connection.

It doesn't stop at QUT KG.

[techblitz]

surely majority of southside students would study at gardens point?

the other benefit is the quick same platform bus transfer to rbwh hospital.....down the track we could potentially see another 310 style service...hourly perhaps.....if anyone takes the 310 you will notice that the majority of daytime patronage comes from elderly using the single seat trip to the hospital anywhere from as far as sandgate...

[aldonius]

Er, techblitz, you do realise that the different QUT campuses offer different subjects? Southsiders need to get to KG just as much as northeasterners need to get to UQ.

P443 should definitely make setdowns at the INB stations, IMHO.