All Door Bus Boarding for Brisbane - discussions

[ozbob]

There some comments by me re all door boarding in this clip ...

https://twitter.com/tennewsqld/status/956427787664900099

[SurfRail]

The whole point of rear door boarding is to make the fleet more efficient to the point where the it off-sets fare evasion.  Plenty of evidence to show it does just that.

In my view it should be all or nothing.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

27th January 2018

Time to expand all door bus boarding in Brisbane

Good Morning,

On Thursday last the newest additions to the Transport for Brisbane bus fleet, Volgren 3-door articulated buses, were officially welcomed at the Sherwood bus deport ( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=13047.0 ).  These buses have a passenger capacity of 116 and will certainly speed up the time it takes for passengers to leave the bus at their destinations.  However, as we have limited all door bus boarding on our bus network in  SEQ, the real potential gains of having the extra door will not be realised.  The only bus routes that are set up for all door boarding in SEQ are the 60 and 61, the CityGlider and MaroonGlider bus routes.  One of the necessary perquisites to allow passengers to board at all doors is that the go card equipment needs to be programmed to allow it.  It has been done for the Glider bus routes as these generally have dedicated buses.

RAIL Back On Track believes it is time that TransLink introduced all door boarding to all busway stations and other major interchanges as a first step of a managed introduction to all door boarding on the Brisbane buses.  This will help dramatically reduce dwell times, help keep buses on time, and make bus transport more attractive to users.

It is time that our public transport network was improved by grabbing onto the ' low hanging fruit '.  It is not all about expensive infrastructure, it is simply using what we have a lot smarter.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org


References:

1.  BostonBRT All Door Boarding Demonstration  Xhttps://vimeo.com/236435737 (remove X to link)

2.  https://twitter.com/yfreemark/status/917802419915980803
MBTA tested all-door boarding, showed dramatically reduced dwell times. Time for all agencies to make this standard. http://mbtabackontrack.com/blog/74

3.  https://twitter.com/Transport_CBR/status/953039207941005313
Transport Canberra
Rear door boarding is available when safe to do so for MyWay card users only at major bus stations and interchanges.

4. Ten News Queensland - Brisbane City Council has taken a major step towards alleviating growing commuter chaos during peak hour.
https://twitter.com/tennewsqld/status/956427787664900099

5.  Boarding bus thru all doors works in St Paul (& San Francisco) for quicker stops.
https://twitter.com/TransitCenter/status/842823991408709633

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/956933002000457728

[ozbob]

Rear door boarding needs to be programed into the Cubic O/S on each bus.
Carina Depot buses 2036 - 2049 are used on Maroon Gliders and have rear door boarding enabled.
Also Carina Depot standard livery buses 1900 - 1930 are also rear door enabled so they can be used on Maroon Glider services if needed.
If any bus not mentioned above turns up on a Maroon Glider service, Don't enter via the rear door.

Someone has just posted this on our FB page at https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/1924403764240468

Khan Buchanan-Ketchup The city gliders 60 and 61 are now only front door loading only. This is for safety reasons. Because the driver can not see what passengers are bringing on the bus. Like Fuel cans and other flammable items. And the doorway it self is to small for loading and unloading. Not because of fair evaders.

I understand that 60 and 61 are dual door boarding.  I asked the DM for confirmation too but he might not see it for a while.

[ozbob]

I also have just checked https://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/traffic-transport/public-transport/buses/cityglider-bus-services
Last update 24 Jan 2018 and has re the two Glider routes ' pre-paid ticketing and dual-door boarding for faster entry and exit '.

[ozbob]

SEQ Fare Review Taskforce did make a recommendation in June 2016 that all door boarding be proceeded with.

The Government's response at the time was " The government will undertake further analysis of the potential benefits and risks of rear door loading for buses within the TransLink SEQ context " 

Nothing heard ...

Also there was to be a Public Transport Fares Advisory Panel to provide independent advice. The Fare Advisory Panel will include up to six
members, including a Chair. Members will have expertise in public transport or represent public transport user groups. They sent me an invitation a while back but I declined.  Nothing heard since ...

[James]

Someone has just posted this on our FB page at https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/1924403764240468

Khan Buchanan-Ketchup The city gliders 60 and 61 are now only front door loading only. This is for safety reasons. Because the driver can not see what passengers are bringing on the bus. Like Fuel cans and other flammable items. And the doorway it self is to small for loading and unloading. Not because of fair evaders.

I understand that 60 and 61 are dual door boarding.  I asked the DM for confirmation too but he might not see it for a while.

Not to sound like a dick, but this is wrong. I saw people boarding via the rear door on CityGliders as recently as Thursday.

I do agree that the door is too small for both loading and unloading, but you could say the same about the front door for the most part - very hard to have people loading and unloading simultaneously.

[Gazza]

Have this on buses.

[ozbob]

Someone has just posted this on our FB page at https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/1924403764240468

Khan Buchanan-Ketchup The city gliders 60 and 61 are now only front door loading only. This is for safety reasons. Because the driver can not see what passengers are bringing on the bus. Like Fuel cans and other flammable items. And the doorway it self is to small for loading and unloading. Not because of fair evaders.

I understand that 60 and 61 are dual door boarding.  I asked the DM for confirmation too but he might not see it for a while.

Not to sound like a dick, but this is wrong. I saw people boarding via the rear door on CityGliders as recently as Thursday.

I do agree that the door is too small for both loading and unloading, but you could say the same about the front door for the most part - very hard to have people loading and unloading simultaneously.

Thanks James.  I get the impression from a string of FB posts that he is just against all door boarding.

[ozbob]

Someone just posted this comment on our FB post.

In Rome the equivalent buses have front and rear boarding with centre reserved for exit. This helps improve dwell time as there is no meeting in the doorway delay.

[red dragin]

Someone just posted this comment on our FB post.

In Rome the equivalent buses have front and rear boarding with centre reserved for exit. This helps improve dwell time as there is no meeting in the doorway delay.

That would also allow for a consistent campaign across the network, promoting the rear (singles) or middle (artics) as the exit. Signage or some sort of visual barrier for the rear section of the artics to promote people to walk forwards

[ozbob]

Someone has just posted this on our FB page at https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/1924403764240468

Khan Buchanan-Ketchup The city gliders 60 and 61 are now only front door loading only. This is for safety reasons. Because the driver can not see what passengers are bringing on the bus. Like Fuel cans and other flammable items. And the doorway it self is to small for loading and unloading. Not because of fair evaders.

I understand that 60 and 61 are dual door boarding.  I asked the DM for confirmation too but he might not see it for a while.

Not to sound like a dick, but this is wrong. I saw people boarding via the rear door on CityGliders as recently as Thursday.

I do agree that the door is too small for both loading and unloading, but you could say the same about the front door for the most part - very hard to have people loading and unloading simultaneously.

Thanks James.  I get the impression from a string of FB posts that he is just against all door boarding.

I have been advised that 60 and 61 are still dual door boarding.  As some of you have recently experienced!

[ozbob]

Letter to the Editor Queensland Times 29th January 2018 page 15

Three-door buses need revisiting

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

2nd February 2018

Re: Time to expand all door bus boarding in Brisbane

Good Morning,

I have received a suggestion from a member of the public that we think has merit. A 12 month trial of supervised PM peak all door boarding at UQ Lakes, and UQ bound at Park Rd/Boggo Rd in the AM peak, could be a good place to start. An alternative approach would to allow all door boarding at all times on those routes.  The buses would need to have go card readers programmed for all door boarding.  This could present a challenge but I expect could be overcome. All door boarding bus routes need to be prepaid of course.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

27th January 2018

Time to expand all door bus boarding in Brisbane

Good Morning,

On Thursday last the newest additions to the Transport for Brisbane bus fleet, Volgren 3-door articulated buses, were officially welcomed at the Sherwood bus deport ( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=13047.0 ).  These buses have a passenger capacity of 116 and will certainly speed up the time it takes for passengers to leave the bus at their destinations.  However, as we have limited all door bus boarding on our bus network in  SEQ, the real potential gains of having the extra door will not be realised.  The only bus routes that are set up for all door boarding in SEQ are the 60 and 61, the CityGlider and MaroonGlider bus routes.  One of the necessary perquisites to allow passengers to board at all doors is that the go card equipment needs to be programmed to allow it.  It has been done for the Glider bus routes as these generally have dedicated buses.

RAIL Back On Track believes it is time that TransLink introduced all door boarding to all busway stations and other major interchanges as a first step of a managed introduction to all door boarding on the Brisbane buses.  This will help dramatically reduce dwell times, help keep buses on time, and make bus transport more attractive to users.

It is time that our public transport network was improved by grabbing onto the ' low hanging fruit '.  It is not all about expensive infrastructure, it is simply using what we have a lot smarter.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org


References:

1.  BostonBRT All Door Boarding Demonstration  Xhttps://vimeo.com/236435737 (remove X to link)

2.  https://twitter.com/yfreemark/status/917802419915980803
MBTA tested all-door boarding, showed dramatically reduced dwell times. Time for all agencies to make this standard. http://mbtabackontrack.com/blog/74

3.  https://twitter.com/Transport_CBR/status/953039207941005313
Transport Canberra
Rear door boarding is available when safe to do so for MyWay card users only at major bus stations and interchanges.

4. Ten News Queensland - Brisbane City Council has taken a major step towards alleviating growing commuter chaos during peak hour.
https://twitter.com/tennewsqld/status/956427787664900099

5.  Boarding bus thru all doors works in St Paul (& San Francisco) for quicker stops.
https://twitter.com/TransitCenter/status/842823991408709633

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/959110552340451333

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

7th February 2018

Time to expand all door bus boarding in Brisbane

Good Morning,

We note the BCC Opposition is onboard for all door boarding.

Brisbanetimes --> New super-sized $15 million bus fleet won't fit in bus stops

" Cr Cassidy said he supported rear-door boarding and it was important in the context of the new buses the idea of it was revisited.

"I support Translink investigating and potentially trialling it on high-capacity routes, particularly ones where there are a lot of people like King George Square, Queen Street and Adelaide Street bus stops," he said.

"If it's an empty bus where everyone is boarding making sense to get them on quicker.

"I do understand suburban routes where you've got a driver and they've got a duty of care to keep track and account of who is on the bus and what's happening ... but high-patronage, high capacity routes I think we should look at all-door boarding."

All door boarding has been shown to speed up bus runs and improve overall efficiency.

So much low hanging fruit on our public transport network waiting to be plucked!

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

2nd February 2018

Re: Time to expand all door bus boarding in Brisbane

Good Morning,

I have received a suggestion from a member of the public that we think has merit. A 12 month trial of supervised PM peak all door boarding at UQ Lakes, and UQ bound at Park Rd/Boggo Rd in the AM peak, could be a good place to start. An alternative approach would to allow all door boarding at all times on those routes.  The buses would need to have go card readers programmed for all door boarding.  This could present a challenge but I expect could be overcome. All door boarding bus routes need to be prepaid of course.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

Sent to all outlets:

27th January 2018

Time to expand all door bus boarding in Brisbane

Good Morning,

On Thursday last the newest additions to the Transport for Brisbane bus fleet, Volgren 3-door articulated buses, were officially welcomed at the Sherwood bus deport ( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=13047.0 ).  These buses have a passenger capacity of 116 and will certainly speed up the time it takes for passengers to leave the bus at their destinations.  However, as we have limited all door bus boarding on our bus network in  SEQ, the real potential gains of having the extra door will not be realised.  The only bus routes that are set up for all door boarding in SEQ are the 60 and 61, the CityGlider and MaroonGlider bus routes.  One of the necessary perquisites to allow passengers to board at all doors is that the go card equipment needs to be programmed to allow it.  It has been done for the Glider bus routes as these generally have dedicated buses.

RAIL Back On Track believes it is time that TransLink introduced all door boarding to all busway stations and other major interchanges as a first step of a managed introduction to all door boarding on the Brisbane buses.  This will help dramatically reduce dwell times, help keep buses on time, and make bus transport more attractive to users.

It is time that our public transport network was improved by grabbing onto the ' low hanging fruit '.  It is not all about expensive infrastructure, it is simply using what we have a lot smarter.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org


References:

1.  BostonBRT All Door Boarding Demonstration  Xhttps://vimeo.com/236435737 (remove X to link)

2.  https://twitter.com/yfreemark/status/917802419915980803
MBTA tested all-door boarding, showed dramatically reduced dwell times. Time for all agencies to make this standard. http://mbtabackontrack.com/blog/74

3.  https://twitter.com/Transport_CBR/status/953039207941005313
Transport Canberra
Rear door boarding is available when safe to do so for MyWay card users only at major bus stations and interchanges.

4. Ten News Queensland - Brisbane City Council has taken a major step towards alleviating growing commuter chaos during peak hour.
https://twitter.com/tennewsqld/status/956427787664900099

5.  Boarding bus thru all doors works in St Paul (& San Francisco) for quicker stops.
https://twitter.com/TransitCenter/status/842823991408709633

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/960915128211263488

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/MelbourneWay/status/993269291234476032

[SurfRail]

I'm currently in northern Italy.  The idea of limiting boarding to only a single door is utterly ridiculous - it wouldn't work here.

Travelling around here has also reinforced for me, much more profoundly than some of my recent trips elsewhere, how backwards our bus designs are.

[techblitz]

BT/BCC/Translink need to act fast on s.e busway all door boarding.....
You cant just keep plonking in multi-story towers around bus stations like Buranda/Gabba or even T.O.Ds like Coorparoo and then just take a back seat on implementing some sort of timesaving effort.
If they aren't interested in A.D.B then ffs start cutting some routes out of the busway.

[verbatim9]

BT/BCC/Translink need to act fast on s.e busway all door boarding.....
You cant just keep plonking in multi-story towers around bus stations like Buranda/Gabba or even T.O.Ds like Coorparoo and then just take a back seat on implementing some sort of timesaving effort.
If they aren't interested in A.D.B then ffs start cutting some routes out of the busway.

Was in Canberra over the weekend and they advertise "All Door Boarding" on board via the real time next stop info screens to encourage the procedure with a MyWay card.

[ozbob]

I have had enough of the fail culture at TransLink.  The head honchos have been there too long.  Failure is their comfort zone.

Nothing happens.

Simple things:

All door boarding.

Route reform.

Cannot even manage to ensure the Tracker and Data Snapshots are published in a timely fashion.

Communication failures constantly.

In short they need a complete makeover.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/jakkaj/status/997724752167845890

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Transport_CBR/status/1010356878679953408

[ozbob]

We are a backwater in SEQ.   

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/NACTO/status/1011309069519421441

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/kcexec/status/1108032631591989248

[verbatim9]

All door boarding just makes sense. The 700 and 777 should allow it on the coast and all services in Brisbane.

I'll be a bit apprehensive rolling it out to all services on the coast due to fare evasion? It would really help on the University services here in Brisbane. They just need a couple of Snos monitoring it at the uni stops periodically.

[#Metro]

I was looking at Adelaide bus contracting and saw this - all door boarding on O-bahn busway https://adelaidemetro.com.au/Announcements/News/All-day-every-day-O-Bahn-all-door

All door boarding on O-Bahn buses

Now all day, every day

O-Bahn commuters can now board and validate their metroCARD via any door of their O-Bahn bus at any time of the day or night, weekday or weekend, making boarding quicker and easier.
All day, every day O-Bahn all day entry is available at major interchange and city stops:
City stop
O-Bahn Interchanges
Klemzig
Paradise
Tea Tree Plaza
Golden Grove Village
Golden Grove Park 'n' Ride
A metroCARD validator is positioned inside every middle and rear door.
Please validate your metroCARD as you board.
If you require boarding assistance, please use the front door.
Look for the signs above the rear door for metroCARD only validators.
All door boarding - all day, every day. Making the journey quicker and easier.

[SurfRail]

Adelaide has it sorted out well - they have very prominent "Entrance" signs above the side doors of anything that runs on the busway.

[ozbob]

I have heard that Melbourne is looking at introducing all door boarding too.

I suspect any momentum for more all door boarding here is on hold pending smart ticketing introduction.

[verbatim9]

I was looking at Adelaide bus contracting and saw this - all door boarding on O-bahn busway https://adelaidemetro.com.au/Announcements/News/All-day-every-day-O-Bahn-all-door

All door boarding on O-Bahn buses

Now all day, every day

O-Bahn commuters can now board and validate their metroCARD via any door of their O-Bahn bus at any time of the day or night, weekday or weekend, making boarding quicker and easier.
All day, every day O-Bahn all day entry is available at major interchange and city stops:
City stop
O-Bahn Interchanges
Klemzig
Paradise
Tea Tree Plaza
Golden Grove Village
Golden Grove Park 'n' Ride
A metroCARD validator is positioned inside every middle and rear door.
Please validate your metroCARD as you board.
If you require boarding assistance, please use the front door.
Look for the signs above the rear door for metroCARD only validators.
All door boarding - all day, every day. Making the journey quicker and easier.

Adelaide has it sorted out well - they have very prominent "Entrance" signs above the side doors of anything that runs on the busway.

I have heard that Melbourne is looking at introducing all door boarding too.

I suspect any momentum for more all door boarding here is on hold pending smart ticketing introduction.

Wow! This is great news. Good on these jurisdictions of improving the bus boarding process.

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/NACTO/status/1231977220496818178

[Cazza]

We need to see ticket gates installed at all busway stations when the Metro comes online so all busway stations (Metro service or not) become all door-boarding. That means customers just touch on off the platform, then walk up or down the stairs and straight onto the next bus they require to catch.

Ticket machines would also be located outside the gateline for people purchasing paper tickets (if they will still be around). The paper tickets should then have a barcode or QR code at the bottom to scan at the fare gates to open them, meaning that there won't need to be a "station master" or the need for one fare gate to be left open for people to walk through. 

[Gazza]

Wouldn't it just be like G link with a few readers on the platform?

Gates are largely a waste of money unless its staffed.

[verbatim9]

Wouldn't it just be like G link with a few readers on the platform?

Gates are largely a waste of money unless its staffed.

They wouldn't have to necessarily staff gates if they take QR codes printed on paper and event tickets. Cultural centre and Southbank are key stations for ticket gates. Both the Train and Metro stations should have them.

[SurfRail]

You'll end up like Skytrain in Vancouver.  All the stations are gated and they are usually closed full-time, with fare machines so you can buy a ticket to get out.

What I fully expect would happen (and probably happens in YVR) is that people just jump the gates.  You can't trap people even if they are being naughty.

[timh]

You'll end up like Skytrain in Vancouver.  All the stations are gated and they are usually closed full-time, with fare machines so you can buy a ticket to get out.

What I fully expect would happen (and probably happens in YVR) is that people just jump the gates.  You can't trap people even if they are being naughty.

New York has a huge gate-jumping issue. They've had to increase station staff (militarized police essentially) to combat it. Fare evasion is rare on the busway, but with offboard ticketing and unstaffed ticket gates I could see it going up.

I think off board ticketing is the way to go for Brisbane Metro but the execution cannot be half arsed. Would have to be ticket gates with staff at every station if they wanted to do it right, and sadly I doubt they have the funding for that. Staff are expensive. The alternative is floor-to-ceiling electronic fare gates but that seems impractical.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[AnonymouslyBad]

I think off board ticketing is the way to go for Brisbane Metro but the execution cannot be half arsed. Would have to be ticket gates with staff at every station if they wanted to do it right, and sadly I doubt they have the funding for that. Staff are expensive. The alternative is floor-to-ceiling electronic fare gates but that seems impractical.

I'm not sure I agree with this. The underlying assumption is that the money lost to fare evasion outweighs the efficiency gains of ignoring it, and/or the cost of "not half arsed" physical security at stations. If this were true, transit systems all around the world would be very different.
It's always a trade off, a conscious decision, and one that could be assessed even on a station by station basis (as with the rail network).

IMO, technical solutions to fare evasion are very politically expedient, but random enforcement provides the best mix of effectiveness (chilling effect) and efficiency (in terms of patrons/area covered). It's just like road rule enforcement. In other words, hire more SNOs and this discussion is moot