Olympics Games for SEQ 2032

[OzGamer]

Also the new stadium has to have a slightly larger field as the current one is not large enough for an olympic track, so it needs to be bigger again. I think the Gabba is probably not a realistic option.

Not doing anything with the Gabba also makes the process so much easier as the cricket and AFL can just continue to use it for the next eight years.

[Jonno]

Sorry still dont agree. Excavating a hill is easy, they do it all the time, for example go see the Coffs Bypass.

Perth stadium is a good benchmark for a modern oval stadium. A stadium like that, with a decent walkway around the outside is 330m wide, so the entire stadium will have to be elevated over the rail line, ICB, plus relocating the energex infrastructure, and rebuilding things like the busway ramps.



Its the exact same reason all these ideas for TODs elevated over rail tracks never go anywhere, because its so expensive and disruptive working over a live rail line, its cheaper to build on the ground.

Hamilton Northsore

Building underneath stadiums is pretty usual Video is the extreme but doable.  If you look at the current Vic Park Pan it is mostly elevated as well. Just doesn't build stadium over ICB/rail but does the surrounding public space.

[RowBro]

Toombul

There would be very little public support for Toombul. Residents in the area very much want some level of retail returned to that site.

[GonzoFonzie]

Lets be honest though, a rebuild of the Gabba IS a new stadium.

Sounds like Theseus's Ship Paradox; how much of the existing stadium remains, when its gets upgraded, before it is considered a new stadium?

in other words, at what point does the upgrade becomes a rebuild, can it still be classed as the original stadium?

[GonzoFonzie]

Also the new stadium has to have a slightly larger field as the current one is not large enough for an olympic track, so it needs to be bigger again. I think the Gabba is probably not a realistic option.

Not doing anything with the Gabba also makes the process so much easier as the cricket and AFL can just continue to use it for the next eight years.

The field size in The Gabba is actually larger than that of Sydney Olympic Park (Accor Stadium). The Gabba can fit an athletics track in it existing field size. The issue is the rest of the stadium. The larger size field is why the grandstands need more space, and why they built them overhanging the road, which is giving the appearance of a large footprint.

I do not know where this idea of needing a larger field came from, but having a bigger field size doesn't mean larger seat capacity. The reason why Suncorp Stadium (Lang park) wasn't chosen for athletics because its stadium is built around the fixed size of football/rugby field; nothing larger can fit, such as an athletics track.

With only four years of usable lifetime left, the Gabba, QSAC, and Boondal venues are coming up to forty years. Unless the new State Government decide to give either venue heritage status  , or they are "upgraded" then the only thing left is their demolition. Keeping the Gabba until 2032 in its current state will be a liability. Both AFL and CA are ditching The Gabba because they know this.

On the subject of stadium footprint, if you were to redesign the Gabba, then there is no rule or law to say that the design should remain round/circular, it could be oval/ellipsoid or rectangular. That's up to the architects, if it allows for more seating with a better profile, than that's value for money.

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Brisbane 2032 Olympics review: Commonwealth-state funding agreement torn up $

A funding agreement between the state and federal governments to split the cost of Brisbane's Olympic and Paralympic Games could be torn up as part of the LNP's 100-day review.

The review is expected to be the final say on how Brisbane will host the 2032 event, prompting demands for it to consider all ideas raised by city powerbrokers and stakeholders.

State Development, Infrastructure and Planning Minister Jarrod Bleijie insists the 100-day review will have an open scope, but will not consider new stadiums. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1853449776077185477

Utter shambles the on going fiasco ...

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Editorial: Scope of Games review not so open $

Surely if you have an open scope, you do not rule out any options. But that's what Jarrod Bleijie and David Crisafulli are doing, writes the editor.

Premier David Crisafulli is bang on when he says the most important part of any decision regarding spending on the 2032 Brisbane Olympics and Paralympics is the legacy that the project will deliver.

But beyond that, the language coming from him and his deputy, Jarrod Bleijie, on this most critical of topics for their new government is becoming as hard to follow as a Donald Trump "weave".

For instance, Infrastructure Minister Mr Bleijie said yesterday that while he was still working on the terms of reference for the upcoming independent review of Games infrastructure, it would have an open scope – and not consider any new stadiums.  ...

 

[Jonno]

"Yes Yes Don't you worry about that! A stitch in time is worth two in the hand"

[hU0N]

The field size in The Gabba is actually larger than that of Sydney Olympic Park (Accor Stadium). The Gabba can fit an athletics track in it existing field size. The issue is the rest of the stadium.

Even more specifically, the issue is undercroft.  I know that sounds boring, but the undercroft is the space where the event is organized.  The undercroft is where the spectator gates and concourses are.  The undercroft is where the canteens and bars are located.  The undercroft is where the kitchens and bathrooms are.  The undercroft is where the service corridors are that allow food outlets to be restocked during an event.  The undercroft is where they store the hurdles, the high jump matts and the pole vaulting poles.  The undercroft is where the secure athlete entry is. The undercroft is where the athletes have dressing rooms.  The undercroft is where the warm up gyms are.  The undercroft is where the umpires, referees and officials have their rooms.  The undercroft is where the medical and physio rooms are. The undercroft is where you find the production corridors and cable runs that allow events to be televised.  The undercroft is where the loading docks are.  The undercroft is where oversized sets and equipment are staged, ready to be placed on the field for concerts and what not.  The undercroft is where athletes are marshalled and moved around to allow them to efficiently access the playing field for events.  And so on..

The existing undercroft at the Gabba is entirely taken up with spectator concourses.  Everything else is either squeezed into the Hyundai Centre, or happens on the street outside, or simply doesn't happen at all (for example: merch, food, and drink outlets simply aren't restocked during events).  More importantly, there really isn't that much space to create an undercroft.  Despite what you say, the stands can't be brought in that far, because the stadium must meet legacy requirements.  For Cricket, this is a hard minimum diameter of 119m to the rope, and a further 2.8m all around the rope to the fence - near enough to 125m.  For AFL, it should be 130m to the boundary line with some additional space to the fence - but this is a little more flexible.  (There is a large question about how flexible, because QSAC is 125m wide and is considered too narrow to be an AFL venue).  Either way, the existing diameter to the fence is a touch over 140m to the fence on the narrowest axis, so there isn't a huge amount of space.

Recall that the original idea for the Gabba was a $1b refurbishment of the existing structure.  This was proposed on the fly during the bid, because the IOC were hesitant about the idea of an Albion stadium.  This $1b was not properly assessed until the project validation report - which took the lack of undercroft head-on.  And it said that the only vaguely feasible option was to build the stadium on an elevated platform with the undercroft located under the playing field.  That's why it's a $3b+ project.  The icing on the cake is that (according to the Quirk review), a stadium built on an elevated platform would still have a substandard capacity and substandard facilities.  As such, it wouldn't attract tier 1 events (such as the first test, concerts and so on).  So much for legacy.

[OzGamer]

Also the new stadium has to have a slightly larger field as the current one is not large enough for an olympic track, so it needs to be bigger again. I think the Gabba is probably not a realistic option.

Not doing anything with the Gabba also makes the process so much easier as the cricket and AFL can just continue to use it for the next eight years.

The field size in The Gabba is actually larger than that of Sydney Olympic Park (Accor Stadium). The Gabba can fit an athletics track in it existing field size.

The field size for track and field is 176.91 meters long and 92.5 meters wide according to this: https://sportsvenuecalculator.com/knowledge/running-track/running-track-dimensions-and-layout-guide/

The Gabba arena size, however, is only 156 x 138m according to https://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/gabba

Perhaps you could tell me where you saw the information that the Gabba could host track and field within the current footprint.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes: A 'genuine independent' venue review must consider new stadiums: mayor

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-news-live-10-department-bosses-turfed-out-by-the-incoming-lnp-government-20241104-p5knlg.html?post=p57sty#p57sty

Despite anticipating a sunny working relationship with an LNP state government, Brisbane Lord Mayor Adrian Schinner wants "other proposals" – including new stadiums – to remain on the table in the upcoming 100-day review.

Premier David Crisafulli says his campaign promise of "no new stadiums" will not change, with his 100-day Olympic venue review expected to begin from next week. ...

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner backflips on Gabba 2032 Games stadium plan $

Brisbane's Lord Mayor has sensationally backflipped on his staunch opposition to transforming the ageing Gabba into an Olympics stadium despite attacking it as a bad idea for months.

Speaking at Council's new Brisbane International Cycle Park in Murarrie on November 5, Mr Schrinner said all options needed to be looked at by the government's 2032 Games 100-day review panel.

"From what I've seen in terms of proposals, there's actually a number of different exciting proposals,'' Mr Schrinner said.

"I also think that the Gabba has to be looked at again to see if there's a better way to do that. ...

[GonzoFonzie]

Also the new stadium has to have a slightly larger field as the current one is not large enough for an olympic track, so it needs to be bigger again. I think the Gabba is probably not a realistic option.

Not doing anything with the Gabba also makes the process so much easier as the cricket and AFL can just continue to use it for the next eight years.

The field size in The Gabba is actually larger than that of Sydney Olympic Park (Accor Stadium). The Gabba can fit an athletics track in it existing field size.

The field size for track and field is 176.91 meters long and 92.5 meters wide according to this: https://sportsvenuecalculator.com/knowledge/running-track/running-track-dimensions-and-layout-guide/

The Gabba arena size, however, is only 156 x 138m according to https://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/gabba

Perhaps you could tell me where you saw the information that the Gabba could host track and field within the current footprint.

I'm finding a figure that shows that the Gabba's field size was extended to 170.6m x 149.9m, which is comparable to the MCG's of 173.6m x 148.4m, and Accor Stadium's 170m x 128m.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gabba
https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricket-grounds/brisbane-cricket-ground-woolloongabba-brisbane-56336
https://thesportsrush.com/cricket-news-brisbane-cricket-ground-boundary-length-what-is-the-gabba-ground-size-and-boundary-dimension/
https://www.cricbuzz.com/cricket-venues/35/the-gabba
https://www.sportsunfold.com/bbl-2022-23-the-gabba-brisbane-stadium-capacity-records-weather-conditions-pitch-report-boundary-length-t20-record-location-capacity/

I had originally came across an older Accor Stadium figure of 160m x 118m, but unsure if that size was pre or post 2000. Regardless of its length (160m or 170m), how did Sydney Olympic Park (Accor Stadium) manage to fit a temp athletics track, if its field length was less than 176.91m?

[GonzoFonzie]

The field size in The Gabba is actually larger than that of Sydney Olympic Park (Accor Stadium). The Gabba can fit an athletics track in it existing field size. The issue is the rest of the stadium.

Even more specifically, the issue is undercroft.  I know that sounds boring, but the undercroft is the space where the event is organized.  The undercroft is where the spectator gates and concourses are.  The undercroft is where the canteens and bars are located.  The undercroft is where the kitchens and bathrooms are.  The undercroft is where the service corridors are that allow food outlets to be restocked during an event.  The undercroft is where they store the hurdles, the high jump matts and the pole vaulting poles.  The undercroft is where the secure athlete entry is. The undercroft is where the athletes have dressing rooms.  The undercroft is where the warm up gyms are.  The undercroft is where the umpires, referees and officials have their rooms.  The undercroft is where the medical and physio rooms are. The undercroft is where you find the production corridors and cable runs that allow events to be televised.  The undercroft is where the loading docks are.  The undercroft is where oversized sets and equipment are staged, ready to be placed on the field for concerts and what not.  The undercroft is where athletes are marshalled and moved around to allow them to efficiently access the playing field for events.  And so on..

The existing undercroft at the Gabba is entirely taken up with spectator concourses.  Everything else is either squeezed into the Hyundai Centre, or happens on the street outside, or simply doesn't happen at all (for example: merch, food, and drink outlets simply aren't restocked during events).  More importantly, there really isn't that much space to create an undercroft.  Despite what you say, the stands can't be brought in that far, because the stadium must meet legacy requirements.  For Cricket, this is a hard minimum diameter of 119m to the rope, and a further 2.8m all around the rope to the fence - near enough to 125m.  For AFL, it should be 130m to the boundary line with some additional space to the fence - but this is a little more flexible.  (There is a large question about how flexible, because QSAC is 125m wide and is considered too narrow to be an AFL venue).  Either way, the existing diameter to the fence is a touch over 140m to the fence on the narrowest axis, so there isn't a huge amount of space.

Recall that the original idea for the Gabba was a $1b refurbishment of the existing structure.  This was proposed on the fly during the bid, because the IOC were hesitant about the idea of an Albion stadium.  This $1b was not properly assessed until the project validation report - which took the lack of undercroft head-on.  And it said that the only vaguely feasible option was to build the stadium on an elevated platform with the undercroft located under the playing field.  That's why it's a $3b+ project.  The icing on the cake is that (according to the Quirk review), a stadium built on an elevated platform would still have a substandard capacity and substandard facilities.  As such, it wouldn't attract tier 1 events (such as the first test, concerts and so on).  So much for legacy.

The legacy requirements holding back The Gabba can be undone with bulldozers. Starting fresh and applying modern design, technology, and engineering/architecture practices into a venue that can last easily for another forty years, leave a legacy and possibly be renowned globally like the Watercube, or the MCG.

Who can say no to that.

[AJ Transport]

I'm shocked that the LNP ran such a small target campaign yet they're already breaking the few promises they made and annoying all parts of the community while making no steps forward.

I can only think Gabba was always the plan as Crisafulli was strong on no new stadiums before the election. But what's the point of a review if they're restricting the terms of reference so severely that it can only give one answer?

At least Miles' review was genuine and he followed all but one recommendation.

[ozbob]

^ Hearing you AJ.  I think Bleijie is turning out to be a big dud.  I think he is the wrong choice for DP.

Meanwhile ...

Couriermail --> LNP on collision course with feds over Games funding $

An Olympic and Paralympic Games funding war is brewing, with federal Infrastructure Minister Catherine King slapping down Queensland's attempt to revisit the agreement to split the cost of the event.

After new state Infrastructure Minister Jarrod Bleijie's declared all Games venues and funding agreements would be on the table as part of the LNP's 100-day review, Ms King warned uncertainty would lead to cost blowouts and construction delays.

The Courier-Mail on Tuesday revealed the state had inquired with the federal government about using some of the cash allocated to the $2.5bn Brisbane Arena – or the $935m for minor venues – to help build its main athletics stadium.

It prompted Ms King to write to Mr Bleijie warning him against attempting to rewrite their funding agreement.

"It is the Commonwealth's expectation that this agreement continues," she said. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1853820063629136322

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> 'Rewriting history': Schrinner adamant new stadium was always planned $

Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner has ramped up his call for Brisbane to have better stadiums as a lasting legacy of the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

As the new LNP government prepares to launch its 100-day review of Games venues, Schrinner wants all options considered – including the original proposal for an Olympic stadium at Albion.

He made the comments at a Brisbane City Council meeting on Tuesday, after Premier David Crisafulli declined to say what the review would encompass.

"What's my opinion on Olympic stadiums? We want the best legacy outcome for Brisbane, that's my position," the LNP lord mayor told an at-times rowdy council meeting.

"Where will that be? I have an idea on where it might land. It won't be at QSAC." ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1853823510415822937

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1853831413310816519

[Stillwater]

Maybe we should follow Victoria's lead in respect of the Commonwealth Games and give the Brisbane Games to Glasgow. Seriously though, the LNP is quickly facing the same image problem as Labor ... if it can't organise itself to stage the Olympic Games successfully and to budget, how can we have confidence that the new government can run an entire State?

[ozbob]

Maybe we should follow Victoria's lead in respect of the Commonwealth Games and give the Brisbane Games to Glasgow. Seriously though, the LNP is quickly facing the same image problem as Labor ... if it can't organise itself to stage the Olympic Games successfully and to budget, how can we have confidence that the new government can run an entire State?

Agreed.  The Crisafulli Government has been very disappointing so far.  Not a beep from new Minister for Transport either, despite the ongoing issues on buses and trains.

 

[Cleveland Line]

Maybe we should follow Victoria's lead in respect of the Commonwealth Games and give the Brisbane Games to Glasgow. Seriously though, the LNP is quickly facing the same image problem as Labor ... if it can't organise itself to stage the Olympic Games successfully and to budget, how can we have confidence that the new government can run an entire State?

Agreed.  The Crisafulli Government has been very disappointing so far.  Not a beep from new Minister for Transport either, despite the ongoing issues on buses and trains.

 

He's met with BCC though...

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1AyqXpSQpF/

[achiruel]

^ Hearing you AJ.  I think Bleijie is turning out to be a big dud.  I think he is the wrong choice for DP.

In news that should surprise no-one, an incompetent fool from the Newman era is still an incompetent fool...

[Arnz]

Bleijie has shown so far that he hasn't changed has attitude since the Campbell Newman 2012-2015 days.

[charleschen]

Gold Coast City Council today released a new 12,000-seat arena plan in Southport, which aims to be a part of games.

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> LNP say they have found $180 million in blowouts at just three 2032 venues

Fronting journalists on the Sunshine Coast today, Deputy Premier Jarrod Bleijie has moved onto the next lot of projects likely to cost more than last estimated by the former Labor state government.

This time? Three 2032 Games venues: the Chandler indoor sports centre upgrade and a new indoor centre on the Sunshine Coast, along with upgrades to the region's existing outdoor stadium.

Increased costs estimates of $61 million, $72 million and $48 million, respectively, have tipped three of the 10 smaller venues some $180 million over what was estimated. ...

[OzGamer]

I had originally came across an older Accor Stadium figure of 160m x 118m, but unsure if that size was pre or post 2000. Regardless of its length (160m or 170m), how did Sydney Olympic Park (Accor Stadium) manage to fit a temp athletics track, if its field length was less than 176.91m?

Sydney Olympic Park was reconfigured after the games wasn't it?

Anyway, there seem to be conflicting sources, so I don't really know. Assuming that it's at least close, it should be able to be made sufficient if the seating was knocked down and rebuilt, but the whole thing is tight.

[Jonno]

Didn't (may still do) the Olympic Stadium had retractable lower decks to make it an oval too?

[ozbob]

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/brisbane-news-live-cctv-of-stolen-car-with-link-to-fatal-crash-released-20241107-p5konc.html?post=p57tpe#p57tpe

Bleijie says 'no new stadia' – at Victoria Park or anywhere else

Victoria Park appears to have been ruled out as the site of a new Olympic stadium before the terms of reference have been finalised for a 100-day review of Games venues.

Deputy Premier Jarrod Bleijie today dismissed the Herston option, days after Lord Mayor Adrian Schrinner called for all sites to be considered and reconsidered as part of the LNP government's independent review. ...

[ozbob]

My money (50 cents) is on an upgrade of the ' Gabba 

[ozbob]

Meanwhile ...

Couriermail --> Gabba's biggest tenants in Queensland Cricket and Brisbane Lions make plea to state's new Premier for stadium $

Queensland Cricket and the Brisbane Lions have made a joint plea to Premier David Crisafulli to scrap his ban on a new Olympic Stadium.

Queensland Cricket chief executive Terry Svenson revealed on Friday he and Brisbane Lions chief executive Greg Swann have written to new Premier Crisafulli urging him to back a new stadium at Victoria Park.

"We're hoping to meet with the new Premier and his team over the next couple of weeks,'' Svenson said outside the Gabba.

With several independent investigations claiming the iconic but fading Gabba will be unusable by 2030, Lions and cricket officials have backed the proposal to construct a 60,000 seat stadium at Victoria Park. ...

[GonzoFonzie]

Bleijie says 'no new stadia' – at Victoria Park or anywhere else

What part of that statement does Queensland Cricket and the Brisbane Lions not understand.

Are they going to get around this by calling it an 'arena' instead? The Gabba is currently called 'Nissan Arena'

Semantics and politics do not mix.

[achiruel]

Bleijie says 'no new stadia' – at Victoria Park or anywhere else

What part of that statement does Queensland Cricket and the Brisbane Lions not understand.

Are they going to get around this by calling it an 'arena' instead? The Gabba is currently called 'Nissan Arena'

Semantics and politics do not mix.

Nope. 'Nissan Arena' is the place netball is played, next to QSAC.

[#Metro]

How difficult is it to do a fair and objective assessment?

Take the options - both new and old - and see what the results are.

Then pick the option that makes better sense / saves money.

This administration seems to have decided what the answer is, before they have the answer.

What purpose is served if it turns out that a refurbish costs the same or more as a new build, but they choose it anyway because it's 'not new'?

[Habitant]

Why are the LNP even discussing this, I thought they promised an independent review?

These guys can't even stall correctly...

[GonzoFonzie]

Bleijie says 'no new stadia' – at Victoria Park or anywhere else

What part of that statement does Queensland Cricket and the Brisbane Lions not understand.

Are they going to get around this by calling it an 'arena' instead? The Gabba is currently called 'Nissan Arena'

Semantics and politics do not mix.

Nope. 'Nissan Arena' is the place netball is played, next to QSAC.

 

[ozbob]

The Australian --> Brisbane Olympics cost blowouts to surpass $500m $

Cost blowouts to deliver the 2032 Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Games could climb to $681m, with a major infrastructure project expected to run over budget by half a billion dollars.

The revelation came as Premier David Crisafulli announced that promoted former senator Amanda Stoker to his "next-gen" assistant ministry alongside six other newly-elected MPs.

Necessary upgrades to provide linkages from Brisbane's Roma St train station to the federal government's $2.5bn Brisbane Live arena project are expected to run over by up to $500m. ...

[GonzoFonzie]

$500 million to upgrade Roma Street station?  What 'upgrades' does Roma Street station need?

How do they intend to get people en mass from Roma Street station to Wickham Tce without upsetting all of the trendsetters living in those apartments, when the only road connection was built for them to drive and park on?

If the State Government considers this an unacceptable spend, perhaps they should re-consider having Brisbane Live Arena moved from Roma Street Parklands. After six years now of delays, why is this even surprising.

[ozbob]

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1855634198381613273

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> LNP claims $500m Brisbane Arena blowout was hidden from voters $

Queensland's new government claims Labor hid a $500 million cost associated with a major Olympic venue from voters before the election, leading to counterclaims of "petty" politics from the opposition.

Deputy Premier Jarrod Bleijie said not only would Brisbane Arena "likely" cost more than the previously anticipated $2.5 billion, there would also be a need for a half-billion-dollar upgrade of Roma Street station to provide links to the new venue. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1855638508867559666

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Olympic plans in disarray amid claims of widespread blowouts, delays $

The Queensland government has rejected a Commonwealth plea to get on with building Olympic venues, insisting the LNP's mooted 100-day review must be allowed to play out.

Federal Infrastructure Minister Catherine King last week warned the review could further blow out costs, meaning Queensland taxpayers would be on the hook for even more money.

Deputy Premier Jarrod Bleijie, who on Sunday said the previous Labor government had hidden $500 million in unannounced costs associated with the Brisbane Arena, said he had written to King on Monday to outline the cost escalations the new state government had identified. ...

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1856002409086284212

[ozbob]

https://x.com/ozbob13/status/1856353938070745161