Gympie North ICE trains now showing their age - need refurb pronto

[Fares_Fair]

The Gympie North ICE trains are showing their age.
They were brought into the fleet in 1988-1989, and so are 26 years old this year.

Though these trains are loved by their passengers for their delightfully comfortable, rotational and reclinable seats for long-haul commuters, their reliability is being severely called into question.

I am regularly fielding messages/calls from commuters concerned that the Gympie North train inbound in the morning is consistently late on a regular basis, multiple times in a week.
This morning it was 25 minutes late due to a mechanical defect.
Tonight it was 10 minutes late heading northbound. (this wasn't an ICE service)

It has been late at least once or twice a week (in the am) for the past few weeks.

I'm guessing that it the issue may be the doors - but cannot be sure.
Its unreliability is driving people away from the service.
Tonight a commuter told me so. She's given up on it.

It would be wonderful to know when these units will receive the refurbishment and upgrade that they desperately need.

[Jonno]

Sorry to bust spending billions making sure 99% of all trips to Gympie are by road even though far more dangerous!

[petey3801]

The ICE are being cycled through Redbank Workshops for refurbishments at the moment. In fact, I think the final one may have come out the other day. Any ICE that has the red 'Queensland Rail' blob on the side near the doors has had a refurb.
Unfortunately, the ICE are still doing runs they weren't originally designed for (ie: All stops north of Caboolture). They were designed as an express, long distance train for runs to Rocky, which the electric Tilt took over when they entered service. It would be just like putting the electric Tilts on the Gympie North run, they would soon start becoming problem children, as they are simply not designed for that type of running.
I think much of the problem with the ICE units is the ATP though. Always seems to cause issues with them. And when the ATP goes, it takes quite some time to get it to set up again (if it does decide it wants to set up!), hence the delays.

[Fares_Fair]

The ICE are being cycled through Redbank Workshops for refurbishments at the moment. In fact, I think the final one may have come out the other day. Any ICE that has the red 'Queensland Rail' blob on the side near the doors has had a refurb.
Unfortunately, the ICE are still doing runs they weren't originally designed for (ie: All stops north of Caboolture). They were designed as an express, long distance train for runs to Rocky, which the electric Tilt took over when they entered service. It would be just like putting the electric Tilts on the Gympie North run, they would soon start becoming problem children, as they are simply not designed for that type of running.
I think much of the problem with the ICE units is the ATP though. Always seems to cause issues with them. And when the ATP goes, it takes quite some time to get it to set up again (if it does decide it wants to set up!), hence the delays.

Thank you for the update and reason, petey

[petey3801]

Should also mention, it is a mechanical refurb only, no real cosmetic stuff (seats etc.).

[Stillwater]

One rumour was that the ICE trains would be refurbished 'inside and out' which suggests more than just a mechanical makeover, although I bow to your superior knowledge, Petey.  Have noticed that the swivel seat mechanism in some carriages has been rendered inoperable so seats face permanently as they are fixed -- mix of some facing direction of travel, others not.

[Stillwater]

The carpet on the ICE trains now no longer feels like the floor of a public bar after 12 months of heavy use.  Seems also that dry cleaning fluid has been applied to the seat covers and new seals put in the dual-pane window so that water is not trapped between,  leading to the possibility of seasickness among passengers.  Dull lights have been replaced with new ones.  And someone has donned protective clothing and entered the toilets with a steam blast gun!

[SurfRail]

Interesting and pleasant to ride though they are, I would expect they'd just decommission them and replace them with 100 series IMUs when there are enough NGR trains in the fleet.

[Stillwater]

If a replacement for the ICE trains are down the track (let's face it, it won't be immediate), I'd like to think 'comfier' seats are fitted to avoid numb bum over the three hours to Gympie North.  NSW and Vic have fleets designed specifically for runs to places such as Bendigo, Gippsland, Newcastle, Lithgow etc.  QR should look to having a similar stand-alone train set for inter-urban runs, especially now the state government has adopted a policy of locating more Queenslanders outside of Greater Brisbane.  Anna Bligh (remember her) once promised Tilts to the Sunshine Coast, for a faster run back into the city.

A state election is coming up.  It would be a great publicity stunt to fit out a new passenger train carriage with 'Gympielander class' seating and running it out to Rosewood and up to Gympie, met by every state LNP candidate along the way -- 'vote for us and this is what you will get'.

[Arnz]

^

Seeing that all next-gen trains have toilets equipped (1 per 6-car set), I would think the IMU100/120s will be the likely replacements for the ICE (and assumably the Double Daily Gympie services become dedicated IMU100/120s instead of the current ICE carriages) should QR retire the ICEs within the next few years, which is highly likely.  The Next-Gen will very likely be rotated on Roma St-NBR and Airport-GC services to meet toilet requirements, freeing up a few IMU100/120s for the GYN runs.

[Stillwater]

The Gympielander, due into Gympie at 12.30pm yesterday (Monday), came to an abrupt halt 10 minutes south of the city at a spot not easily accessible by cars.  Passengers on board were stranded for a couple of hours while alternative arrangements were made to get them to their destination.  The alternative conveyance was a four-wheel drive police paddy wagon – the only available vehicle that could access that section of track! In, groups of four, passengers were bundled into the paddy wagon (with a little more grace than the usual occupants) and transported to town.

[Cam]

Overhead a passenger with a complaint about the southbound service that they had to alight from north of Caboolture recently. Apparently there was plenty of mud to walk through.

[ozbob]

Reliability is a concern.  I expect they will continue until enough trains to replace them regularly with toilet equipped IMUs. 



   

[STB]

I highly doubt the ICE sets will be around for much longer, they are highly unreliable and not DDA compliant.

Coming back to an earlier idea, why not simply run a shuttle using a reliable IMU between Nambour and Gympie North, and those wanting a one train trip, could use the Tilt Train instead (for those from Gympie North), instead of running the ICE all the way to/from the city a few times a day.

[ozbob]

Running shuttles between Nambour and Gympie North is the logical thing to do, with an increase in frequency from two to 4.

I have raised it again recently with Queensland Rail.  Train numbers are problem but I expect eventually that will be the way forward.

[Arnz]

I would guess that QR would want to keep the AM Peak and PM Peak Gympie North runs. 

The daytime Gympielander however could probably be replaced with 2-3x GYN-NBR shuttles though.  Issue would be stabling space & paths (whether to run it as a early morning BNE-GYN or stable it at CAB overnight before dead-heading to NBR for Gympie North shuttles)

[Stillwater]

^ What is the latest on the train stabling facility south of Nambour -- at Woombye, wasn't it?

[Fares_Fair]

^ What is the latest on the train stabling facility south of Nambour -- at Woombye, wasn't it?

Yes, here's the latest below.
I have requested a response via email (sent 10:05pm and 10:09pm respectively on Friday 20 February, 2015) from both Queensland Rail and from TMR on this.



Dear Fellow Residents and Businesses of Woombye,

This is a Call to Arms requesting your help and assistance.  We need your signatures please on our Community Submission objecting to the Proposed Rail Stabling here in Woombye.

How can you help?  Residents of Woombye and members of the Woombye Community and Business Association (WCBA) will be door knocking over the next two weekends asking for your support.  (and signature)  Please sign a copy and we will then lodge all completed Submissions with Jackie Trad MP, Deputy Premier and Minister for Transport.

DID YOU KNOW Queensland Rail has confirmed  - The proposed railway stabling yard in Woombye will see 48 train carriages parked under 9-15 metre tall lights with their air-conditioning motors running all night?
•   All train air-conditioning units are left to run all night on up to all 48 No. carriages.  They do not turn them off as it has been found to be better for maintenance according to QR.  The community gets to deal with both noise and light pollution.

DID YOU KNOW Queensland Rail has confirmed  - There are NO employment opportunities to the Woombye Community from the Proposed Rail Stabling.
   
DID YOU KNOW Queensland Rail has confirmed  - The facility is specifically designed as a night time facility for the cleaning of electric trains during a proposed 30 year timetable. It will run every night, every week, for 30 years.
•   A group of concerned Woombye residents visited  QR's Redbank Facility on the 07.12.2014.  Our local councillor, Cr Jenny McKay, also gave of her time to attend this night time visit to Redbank.  QR have confirmed Redbank is a state of the art facility, and Woombye would be built to the same standards. (See photo attached)

DID YOU KNOW Queensland Rail has confirmed -
•         The facility's design and functionality standards would be achieved with concerns from the Woombye Community over light and noise being minimally addressed by QR.


KEEP WOOMBYE AS WE KNOW IT!
This proposed facility is inconsistent with the social and geographic character of Woombye. You can make a difference.
•   SIGN the submission addressed to Jackie Trad MP, Deputy Premier and Minister for Transport. Residents of Woombye and members of the Woombye Community and Business Association (WCBA) will be door knocking over the next two weekends asking for your signature.

•   Lobby Peter Wellington MP by phone, email or in person. Contact details are Ph 5441 6933 and Email Nicklin@parliament.qld.gov.au or visit his office in Currie Street Nambour.

•         This is a state issue.  With your community support, we can push to have the previous government's rail stabling proposal reviewed and ultimately quashed. 

•   Lobby Jackie Trad MP by Ph (07) 3255 3615 Email South.Brisbane@parliament.qld.gov.au or visit her office Suite 1/90 Vulture Street, WEST END, QLD, 4101.


Lastly, the flood map also attached is of the proposed site here in Woombye.  The mapping comes straight from Sunshine Coast Council's Website, highlighting the site is  a high flood-prone one.  Members of the general public can access Council's flood mapping from their website.

For more information you can contact me on the number below.  If anyone can assist with door-knocking in your own street, it is appreciated.  Call me!

Regards,

Name removed
Number removed
Member of W.A.R.S (Woombye Against Rail Stabling, a subgroup of the WCBA)

[ozbob]

LOL

So much for the SCL passenger train service ...

Yandina was always my preferred stabling location, plenty of railway land, no issues, and local support.

Without local stabling the service will very much remain mediocre.  Without the track amplification all rather moot now.

Take my advice, move to Victoria a real rail network with decent long haul services and a pro-rail culture. 

[ozbob]

And further more.  The good people of Redbank have the stabling yard next door.  Not an issue, in fact enables trains on the SCL. 

But they don't see it like that up on the SCL.  Narrow frame of reference ...

[ozbob]

Even Puffing Billy has a better frequency than the rock show north of Nambour.  Farce!!

[darthcaligula666]

judging from all the comments, i guess i was pretty lucky to ride the ice as often as i did without a single problem/break down/delay. obviously i dont use the service daily, but i was reading the shuttle between gympie and nambour idea. i think i wrote a while ago asking why it couldnt run like the rosewood train as a service between nambour and gympie just as the rosie runs from ipswich to rosewood. at the time i was worried the comment would be dismissed because of the infrastructure, but its fantastic to see that other people believe it could be done. i really hope something is done to not only upgrade the lines, but upgrade the stations and increase service frequency. it seems crazy that this line has been left without a real upgrade for so long.

great shot of the steam train by the way 

[ozbob]

   8A  my favourite NA ...   

[ozbob]

FYI ..

17th October 2014

SEQ: Nambour - Gympie North, more rail services needed

Greetings,

It makes a lot of sense to use existing infrastructure and improve public transport options for the Sunshine Coast.

Support for our call for more rail services has been echoed by the Chamber of Commerce and Industry Queensland (CCIQ) in their submission to the Queensland Government's Strong Choices Program process:

"As the Sunshine Coast is eager to promote itself as a lifestyle destination within commuting distance of the Brisbane CBD, it is necessary to increase the frequency of commuter services and extend services on existing lines (e.g. extend more than two peak services daily beyond Nambour) ..."

(page 6)

https://www.cciq.com.au/assets/Documents/Advocacy/submissions/StrongChoices-investment-040914.pdf

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

================================

Media release 1st September 2012 re-released 14th September 2014 re-released 17th October 2014



SEQ: Nambour - Gympie North, more rail services needed

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has called for some more weekday rail services between Nambour and Gympie North (1).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Following discussions with citizens at Pomona recently, it is clear that there is a need for some rail shuttle services between Nambour and Gympie. This has been raised before by RAIL Back On Track and others (1). There are plenty of train-paths available for more services north of Nambour."

"The population on the Sunshine Coast and hinterland is expanding and the population is aging.  Many citizens are no longer able to drive or choose not to drive cars.

"A lot of people in towns like Gympie, Pomona, Cooroy, Cooran and so forth travel locally, particularly to and from Nambour for medical appointments, business and social reasons."

"A service that departs Nambour say around 7am, for a return from Gympie North at around 8.30am would be very useful for the community."

"Similarly a service that departs Nambour say around 4.30pm for return from Gympie North at 6pm."

"The present limited rail weekday services are departures from Nambour at 11.30am and 7.36pm and departures from Gympie North 5.56am and 1.20pm (2). Keep these as is, but add in the two proposed shuttle services."

"This would have a tremendous positive impact in this part of Queensland in terms of improved mobility and would provide a safe option for travel other than the very dangerous roads. The infrastructure is there; stations and track, time it was properly used!"

References:

1. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4615.msg36068#msg36068

2. http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/network-information/timetables/120723-sunshine-coast-line.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[Stillwater]

In light of the opposition from Woombye folk re train stabling facility, perhaps QR should be requested to undertake a formal comparison between a facility there and at Yandina, where the residents have said they want it.  (The people of Yandina believe that train crew would live in the town and contribute to the economy.)  There is also plenty of stabling room at Yandina.  The question is whether a Yandina facility would better serve long-term operational requirements to Gympie, not just Nambour.  If, down the track, let's say QR says it will need to stable trains at Cooroy or Traveston, in addition to Woombye (ie two train stables), would one facility at Yandina be the better option?

From memory, the instructions to those looking to find a replacement to a Nambour train stabling facility, was that they had to find a site within about one kilometre of Nambour station.  They couldn't, so Woombye was selected.  Woombye is one station south of Nambour, Yandina one station north.

Would a Yandina stabling facility extend regular services one station north?  Nambour Station car park is full for most of the day.  People drive from places north (Pomona, Cooroy and Eumundi) to Nambour to catch a train when the limited services between Nambour and Gympie don't suit.  Their cars contribute to the car park congestion.  A Yandina terminus and stable possibly would allow for better management of the track functions at Nambour, freeing up some railway land for redevelopment around the station and take some of the traffic problem out of Nambour.  Folk further north would have easier access to trains, pending any decision about Nambour-Gympie shuttle services.  Is Woombye the better win-win, or Yandina?  We don't know, but someone should take a look ahead of the considerable investment being made.

[ozbob]

A future-proofed stabling yard could be built at Yandina.  Woombye will be limited in ultimate capacity.

A point on the flooding risk of the proposed yards at Woombye.  Matters little.  They simply move the trains onto high ground during a flood event eg. 2011 trains moved out of Mayne.  Using land prone to flooding for stabling is a good use, not much chop for much else except maybe rice paddies and/or frog farms.

[Stillwater]

I note from the TMR factsheet that a comparison was made between Nambour and Woombye to determine which site was better suited as a train stabling location.  Yandina was never in the list or included in the deliberations.  On that basis, it is no wonder that Woombye came out on top.  Yandina may be a better proposition, but the department has closed its mind to that possibility from the outset.   

[ozbob]

 

[Old Northern Road]

Gympie is a similar distance from Brisbane as the Latrobe Valley is from Melbourne, the big difference is that the Latrobe Valley has a population of 125,000 while Gympie only has a population of 18,000. It's population is closer to that of Bairnsdale which only gets one train per day. And V/Line trains would never stop at places likes Pomona, Cooran and certainly not Traveston.

[ozbob]

There is a good catchment on the line between Nambour and Gympie North, growing as well.  It is not just Gympie North.

VLine trains do stop at intermediate stations equivalent to Cooroy Pomona etc.  Traralgon services and the like, they are more equivalent to Gympie Like Services

The Bairnsdale trains are in effect the old Gippslander  which is more of a limited express.  Still stops at key stations though.

By the way Bairnsdale has 3 daily trains, departs 6.05, 12.45, and 18.20 ex Bairnsdale, ex Southern Cross for Bairnsdale 7.20, 13.20, 18.34.

[ozbob]

One of the other issues with the ICE is the lack of operational flexibility in the inner part of the network.  They must run through on the subs.  This does cause issues as well.

[brissypete]

When working fine they are lovely to travel on with the big comfy seats.  Currently sitting on 154 travelling north using the main line today.

[OzGamer]

Personally I think the most analogous service to V/Line is the Tilt Train. I would be in favour of more Tilt Trains or even IMUs (RMUs - Regional Multiple Units?) doing Bundaberg runs more often - say 4-5 times a day, and then only run Translink services to Nambour. Gympie and Cooroy can be served by the Tilt Train/IMU regional service, while a regular bus can run from Cooroy to Nambour serving Yandina and Eumundi.

[ozbob]

There are buses now, not that well used.  Locals want trains to travel on. 

It is not a big issue to run a couple of shuttles to service the communities.

Many VLine services are just loco hauled sets, refurbished Harris suburban carriages form a number.  The Vlocities are nice where you have them.  Queensland Rail may yet get some narrow gauge Vlocities, stranger things have happened.

There is existing infrastructure that can be utilised immediately by the existing rolling stock asset to provide a more frequent service for a community that is growing and wants safe rail transport.  It is not complicated.

[colinw]

I don't even think Nambour is the logical place to terminate most services north of Caboolture.

Sure it is a major activity centre and the biggest hinterland town, but it lies at the centre of a strip of such towns that stretch as far north as Cooroy.  Yandina, Eumundi and Cooroy are every bit as much in need of decent links to Nambour, and Brisbane, as places like Eudlo and Palmwoods.

For that reason, I think that longer term most SCL services should run as far as Cooroy, providing good quality links to both the south AND NORTH of Nambour.  Cooroy also has the advantage of being a good place from which to run a co-ordinated bus onward to Noosa and Tewantin.

I will also make the observation that the M1 is 110km/h divided road as far as Cooroy with further extension on the horizon - clearly the transport demand in the area has already justified spending $billions on high standard motorway, so why does the railway service have to die so badly once you get beyond Nambour?

This is obviously longer term stuff given rolling stock and track constraints.  Shorter term, I am of the opinion that shuttle services to Cooroy or Gympie Nth should be on the agenda, as should Yandina (as opposed to Woombye) stabling and termination of most Nambour services at Yandina.

And to throw in a foamy muffin break  - I really wish the approximately 4.5km northern approach from Gympie North to old Gympie via Banks Pocket would magically sprout wires so the Gympie train terminated in the middle of town, not out in the sticks at a station location that screams "ignore me and drive your car instead".  And look at all the room for parking, etc. at old Gympie station if you rationalise away the yard except for what MVHR needs.  (Also dreaming of cross platform interchange to the MVHR, but now I'm just frothing at the mouth).

[dancingmongoose]

And to throw in a foamy muffin break  - I really wish the approximately 4.5km northern approach from Gympie North to old Gympie via Banks Pocket would magically sprout wires so the Gympie train terminated in the middle of town, not out in the sticks at a station location that screams "ignore me and drive your car instead".  And look at all the room for parking, etc. at old Gympie station if you rationalise away the yard except for what MVHR needs.  (Also dreaming of cross platform interchange to the MVHR, but now I'm just frothing at the mouth).

Rest assured you aren't the only one to have such thoughts. And while we're foaming, it'd be nice to see the third platform at Bundamba opened up and run a silver bullet to the racecourse platform on race days. Heck even extend the regular QPSR services to Bundamba

[James]

I agree mainly with colinw - I think in the long-term, duplication should go as far as Cooroy and all trains should run all stations to Cooroy, with a bus covering Pomona and Cooran. I have to question whether Traveston and Gympie need to be connected to the rest of SEQ. With all due respect to Gympie, Gympie is well outside what I would consider SEQ/TransLink's area of responsibility. It is akin to running the GC train to Murwillumbah. Leave Gympie to be served by Tilt Trains.

Secondly, the population does not exist beyond Cooroy to support a commuter rail service, and I doubt it will ever really support it just because of the nature of these small rural towns. Heck, I am even sceptical of Cooroy being able to support a Noosa bus service, given Noosa is a very rich and insular place - it is very different compared to Maroochydore and Caloundra (and I suspect this is part of the reason why service does not go to Cooroy now - the other part being historical/infrastructure reasons).

If a bus can do the job of a train, why should we bother sending a train up all that way?

I will also make the observation that the M1 is 110km/h divided road as far as Cooroy with further extension on the horizon - clearly the transport demand in the area has already justified spending $billions on high standard motorway, so why does the railway service have to die so badly once you get beyond Nambour?

I would say it is the case of Cooroy just being a waypoint - the reason the highway has been duplicated to Cooroy isn't the reason the highway was duplicated to that point, it is about points further north.

[Arnz]

Heck, I am even sceptical of Cooroy being able to support a Noosa bus service, given Noosa is a very rich and insular place - it is very different compared to Maroochydore and Caloundra (and I suspect this is part of the reason why service does not go to Cooroy now - the other part being historical/infrastructure reasons).

Cooroy is really only a "on-the-way" town for the 631 service from Noosa to Nambour.  If anything the 631 should be upgraded to hourly as a local service, whilst the 630 becomes the full-time co-ordinated service from Nambour to Noosa.

The 632 had just been recently been transitioned from being a part Noosa Shire Council/State Government TMR funded service to a fully funded TMR/state government service, so I'd think the status quo would be maintained for the 632 (no increases or decreases).

[colinw]

And to throw in a foamy muffin break  - I really wish the approximately 4.5km northern approach from Gympie North to old Gympie via Banks Pocket would magically sprout wires so the Gympie train terminated in the middle of town, not out in the sticks at a station location that screams "ignore me and drive your car instead".  And look at all the room for parking, etc. at old Gympie station if you rationalise away the yard except for what MVHR needs.  (Also dreaming of cross platform interchange to the MVHR, but now I'm just frothing at the mouth).

Rest assured you aren't the only one to have such thoughts. And while we're foaming, it'd be nice to see the third platform at Bundamba opened up and run a silver bullet to the racecourse platform on race days. Heck even extend the regular QPSR services to Bundamba

Careful, you'll trigger a full blown foaming attack.  When I was a kid, the 2000 class railcar was the kind of train I rode the most - in the form of the Helidon service with McCafferty's co-ordinated to/from Toowoomba.

This is OT, but I'm fairly sure that QR used to bung on a 2000 class RM to shuttle to the racecourse on Ipswich Cup day.  Vaguely remember such workings when I first moved to Brisbane in the late '80s. (But there were also magical things like a daily RM service to Toogoolawah - ahhh memories!!!)

My one and only arrival at Bundamba Racecourse platform was behind A10 No. 6.  Now THAT is travelling in style. 

[dancingmongoose]

Careful, you'll trigger a full blown foaming attack.  When I was a kid, the 2000 class railcar was the kind of train I rode the most - in the form of the Helidon service with McCafferty's co-ordinated to/from Toowoomba.

This is OT, but I'm fairly sure that QR used to bung on a 2000 class RM to shuttle to the racecourse on Ipswich Cup day.  Vaguely remember such workings when I first moved to Brisbane in the late '80s. (But there were also magical things like a daily RM service to Toogoolawah - ahhh memories!!!)

My one and only arrival at Bundamba Racecourse platform was behind A10 No. 6.  Now THAT is travelling in style. 

I did see a photo of a RM at Racecourse floating around on facebook a few months back, can't seem to find it now. I was born after the '93 D-day, so I missed all the magical things My mother reminiscences regularly of her trip home from work on a Helidon RM (although only as far as Rosewood). The only "magical" thing I got was Tennyson.

Back to the SCL, knowing a few people in the Eumundi/Cooroy area, they tell me that most people just drive to Nambour if they intend to catch the train to Brisbane. So I think trains should go at least all the way to Cooroy.