Include Toowong in express peak pattern on Ipswich line?

[ozbob]

There has been feedback requesting that peak Ipswich express services stop at Toowong.

Difficulty is being experienced transferring at Indooroopilly with complaints concerning access and missed connections.

There certainly is enough timetable allowance to include this stop IMO.  Happy to consider for and against.

Any comments?

[Simon Lovell]

I say no, FWIW.  There will always be missed connections.  It's a fact of life that not everything can run on time, all the time.

Difficulty is being experienced transferring at Indooroopilly with complaints concerning access and missed connections.

When I lived at Indooroopilly I didn't find any particular difficulty getting a bus to UQ at 8:30 in the morning.  In fact, services seemed more than adequate.  Not to say I wouldn't have liked a 432 to meet every train, but we can't have everything.

[dancingmongoose]

Considering there are days when quite literally half the train gets off the trains from Springfield at Toowong during morning peak hour, absolutely. I can guarantee some of those people are coming from west of Darra and have to change from an express to all stops

[Simon Lovell]

Considering there are days when quite literally half the train gets off the trains from Springfield at Toowong during morning peak hour, absolutely. I can guarantee some of those people are coming from west of Darra and have to change from an express to all stops

How?

Who would double change when a single change would do?

[ozbob]

Considering there are days when quite literally half the train gets off the trains from Springfield at Toowong during morning peak hour, absolutely. I can guarantee some of those people are coming from west of Darra and have to change from an express to all stops

Interesting, my own observations in the morning are the express services are relatively lightly loaded cf. to the ex Springers.  Maybe the pax you are observing are pushing for the changes.  Toowong is getting busier these days.

[James]

No. Once you stop at Toowong, you might as well just stop at Auchenflower (it has the hospital and office blocks too), and heck just stop it at Taringa then too. Then it skips a grand total of 5 stations (Oxley - Chelmer), so you might as well not have the damn express in the first place.

For traffic to UQ, there are connecting 427s/428s/432s. If there is an issue with these bus services being too slow - this is a Brisbane City Council problem and the number of stops, routings and express patterns along the Indro - UQ should be rationalised and BCC forced to comply to whatever TransLink deems fit. This should also be advertised, e.g. "The next station is Indooroopilly... Passengers for bus connections to UQ, this is your station...". When you punch it in to the JP, the trip times from Ippy/Springfield-UQ are identical via Indro compared to via Toowong in peak hour. The reason people still change at Toowong for UQ is because 412 BUZ is more reliable and doesn't have stops every 200 metres *cough*428*cough*.

With regards to traffic with a final destination of Toowong - I don't consider it high enough at this time to consider stopping expresses at Toowong.

[Mozz]

Yes .... only transfer to the citycat ferry during peak....and I did raise it quite vociferously at two of the timetable engagement sessions with translink timetable experts prior to the split peak pattern on the Ipswich line.... regardless of my position re ferry, alternative UQ access, other business and retail hub activity ... their retort was that one stop would add more time to the journey.. to which I would reply ... well delete Gailes..... cue the sounds of crickets ... as this highlighted that despite no one living there and being a now orphaned station due to the Ipswich Road upgrade.. it does serve as a convenient, albeit adhoc carpark, for 300 plus cars each and every week day ...

[ozbob]

Interesting poll results.  Reflects both sides of the argument.  There is a significant public outcry from those so affected working its way through the bureaucracy.  My gut feeling is the the status quo will remain, however if it gets political  would not be surprised to see a shift.

Personally I am a little ambivalent, bit of each way - understand reasons for and against.  Either way would not be upset.

The additional timetable time is a reliability factor.  I expect a stop at Toowong could at times have flow on timetable effects.

[OzGamer]

In my opinion, expresses serve little purpose unless they are substantially faster over substantial distances. The current express pattern is much more successful than the old hodge-podge of three stations missed here or there and I strongly support it staying as is.

The two major transfers at Indooroopilly are to the Uni and to Taringa/Toowong/Auchenflower on the train. Problems with the former should be addressed through improvements to the bus service, while the latter is generally a pretty good connection at Indro.

Once you start chipping away at express patterns we'll be back where we started in no time.

My 2c

[SurfRail]

What should have happened is conversion of the route to up-up-down-down, which would have been possible with a better flyover configuration at Darra and some simple works between Milton and the Merivale Bridge junction. 

There would be a lot less complaints if all you have to do is step off one train and take 10 steps to hop on another one as opposed to going up and down 2 flights of stairs and/or lifts.

No from me because even with the lack of attention given to transferring arrangements, it is still not a huge issue, and it is a slippery slope from there.

Similar issues with Kogarah in Sydney.

[dancingmongoose]

I'd like to see trains from Ipswich run express Redbank to Roma St or Milton stopping at Darra, Indro and Toowong, with an all stops from Redbank. This also would allow for trains from Springfield to run express if we need to. Of course we don't have the rollingstock just yet though

[DayboroStation]

Yes from me. Toowong Station is a hub for commercial activity for the inner western suburbs, and is well patronised as a result of this (not to mention the growing number of apartments in the area). My only concern, however, would be that if the express services stopped at Toowong on platform 4 (AM) and 3 (PM), there would not be enough room for passengers moving up/down the stairwells between the concourse and platform.

Comparing Milton/Toowong/Indooroopilly Stations, does anyone know which station has the most patronage? Could help with the for/against arguments.

[Simon Lovell]

Yes .... only transfer to the citycat ferry during peak....and I did raise it quite vociferously at two of the timetable engagement sessions with translink timetable experts prior to the split peak pattern on the Ipswich line.... regardless of my position re ferry, alternative UQ access, other business and retail hub activity ... their retort was that one stop would add more time to the journey.. to which I would reply ... well delete Gailes..... cue the sounds of crickets ... as this highlighted that despite no one living there and being a now orphaned station due to the Ipswich Road upgrade.. it does serve as a convenient, albeit adhoc carpark, for 300 plus cars each and every week day ...

But why is transfer to the city cat important? When I worked at indro with someone who lived in West end he rarely if ever used the ferry to our from work, but went through the cbd. If you're going to say the eastern part of the ferry, it's a similar distance from central to river side.

I can see someone living in Ipswich and working by the West end ferry wharf being advantaged by stopping at Toowong, but I'd say a round number of those.

[STB]

I'd say no to this.  Simply because once you start adding on additional stations to the express pattern, people will want more stations added and you'll simply destroy the express pattern and Ipswich trains could potentially just end up being all stoppers in peak hour.

If you want Toowong, interchange, it isn't difficult.  If they can make Indooroopilly a better more clearer interchange point, then they should do that.

[ozbob]

Comparing Milton/Toowong/Indooroopilly Stations, does anyone know which station has the most patronage? Could help with the for/against arguments.

Secret state!

Last available --> http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/RAILSERVICES/CITY/Pages/PassengerLoadSurvey.aspx

2011/12, changed a bit since  I expect ...

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. @QueenslandRail G'day! Any updates to this please? --> http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/RAILSERVICES/CITY/Pages/PassengerLoadSurvey.aspx ... thanks ..

[BrizCommuter]

I'm also a no on this. If you add Toowong, then you should add Auchenflower for the Wesley Hospital, at which point your express service isn't very express.

By the way, I don't think up-up-down-down is possible at Indro, due to the weight limits of one of the bridges.

[Simon Lovell]

By the way, I don't think up-up-down-down is possible at Indro, due to the weight limits of one of the bridges.

Good point, although the bridge's limitations could be fixed up.  The station upgrade work closed each island for a pretty long time, so I'm sure they could do that again, perhaps requiring expresses to non-stop Indro and Milton in peak though for a time, which would be regrettable.

[SurfRail]

By the way, I don't think up-up-down-down is possible at Indro, due to the weight limits of one of the bridges.

Handy to know.

The Darra "upgrade" renders it moot anyway, best that can be hoped for is that there is some kind of junction improvement to the east of Milton.

[The Reaper]

By the way, I don't think up-up-down-down is possible at Indro, due to the weight limits of one of the bridges.

Only applies to heavy consists e.g. freight trains. Passenger could run DUDU with changes to signalling.