Bus - rail connections - problems and examples

[hU0N]

Since Geebung railway station was upgraded the bus connections are still a shambles. Between the 325, 326, 327, 336, 337 its all over the place. From stop locations around the station to the connections between the bus/train. Nothing like having to walk 300m to/from the 325 stop while its about a 20m walk to the 326, 327, 336/337 (currently forget which one is the clockwise loop).

Geebung is a mess anyway.  It's the transfer point between trains and all the bus routes in the area (particularly the buses to Chermside, probably the largest single trip generator in the region).  But, under the new railway timetable, it's not an express stop, just a local stop.  Meanwhile, just two stations down the line is the express stop where all the trains on the corridor stop, and there is not a bus to be had.

So someone living in the northern suburbs and looking to get to the major activity centre in the north must change trains at Petrie, then transfer to a bus at Geebung.  Or, they can travel to Northgate, backtrack on an outbound train to Geebung and then transfer to a bus.

Crazy.

[SurfRail]

It's not like it's even that difficult to get a bus down Hamilton Road and through to Northgate either.

[James]

It's not like it's even that difficult to get a bus down Hamilton Road and through to Northgate either.

I'm not sure if I would consider a 1.3km walk 'easy'. The walk to my local 412 BUZ stop is shorter and its long enough that I drive my car and park near the stop if I'm using it.



Alternatively, go via Zillmere - its faster!



To be honest, if you stopped the expresses anywhere, it'd be Zillmere. Like it or not, the 330 BUZ there is probably the closest thing you have to a "spine bus route" on the northside which goes anywhere near a railway line. Geebung has some great feeder routes but they're all hourly, and the 340 BUZ only works in one direction vs. the 330 BUZ which works in two.

[SurfRail]

^ By "get a bus" I meant "route a bus", ie kill off the pointless 306 and instead have a cross-town service at reasonable headways.

This is BT land though.

[hU0N]

It's not like it's even that difficult to get a bus down Hamilton Road and through to Northgate either.

My thoughts exactly. You can tell I don't live out that way because of how unaware I was of the 330 connection. But Geebung or Zillmere, the real stupidity is that the buses almost seem to go out of their way to connect to a local station, even though the express station is literally right there, albeit a *little* bit isolated from the main street network.

[hU0N]

That said, how would you do it?

I'd go something like Hamilton, right Bilsen, left Rode, left Sandgate, right Cameron, right Cavendish, left Ryans, left Ridge, right Toombul St, right Gympie At, remove the parking bays closest to the platforms and create a one way bus platform using the existing entrance on Gympie and a new exit onto Ridge, with the balance of the carpark reconfigured to only be accessed by the existing Ridge St entrance. Buses could then go right onto Ridge, right Northgate and then on to wherever.

Reverse would be mostly the same except they might run down Gympie (although down Ridge, left Toombul St, right Gympie would be preferable if there was to be a stop on Ridge st anywhere), through the station and exit left into Ryans.

[Gazza]

I've often wondered why the 663 is a one-way loop when it could just as easily connect to Burpengary to provide a more useful local connection.  You'd miss a very small number of the existing stops on the eastern side of the loop in exchange for connecting the whole area to the local shops.

You could even throughroute this with the new 668 to provide a single seat trip to North Lakes.

Doesn't Narangba have its own local plaza at the corner of Young Rd and Golden Wattle Drive? Granted it's not as big as Burpengary, but still, Narangba has Woolworths, a Bank, Jetts, Red Rooster, Brumbies etc.

[HappyTrainGuy]

My point was moreso how bad the connections are for feeders to the station regardless of the stopping pattern of trains. Train-City is faster than the current bus network in these areas such as the 325/335 + 330/333/340 connections or their respective single seat trips.

Hell, Roma Street to Carseldine/Bracken Ridge/Ridley Road area was fastest on the old express train to Carseldine + inbound 340 than the 340 from Roma Street to Aspley. Now its a 13 minute transfer penalty as opposed to the previous 3-4 minute transfer. The cross used to be Gympie Road near the Robinson Road stops to give you an example of how fast the trip actually was by train and then the inbound route. Only problem was this was delayed easily due to Beams Road congestion with people trying to rat run at particular times.

Anyway. This situation is going to become even more of a joke on the new timetables with the reintroduction of express trains on the line. Take the 325. It is miles away from Zillmere railway station and yet it goes past the entrance of Geebung Railway station which has a train every 7 minutes in morning peak but it dumps you some 300m away. Same with the reverse trip if you live just down the road from the station. 326/327 is the same. Infact coming from Taigum/Zillmere you are better off using Geebung as the interchange due to the shorter trip you'll undertake at Geebung vs walking and using the Murphy Road intersection at Zillmere. The 336/337 are also good examples. They service areas that provide a direct link to nearby interchanges (Chermside and Aspley bus interchanges and Geebung Railway station). It stops right outside the station entrance but its run on a frequency worse than the Nambour railway line and only in between peak hours. One common problem the 335 has is traffic along Gympie road which blows out travel times before getting delayed again on Webster road along with the 325. And other buses are caught up in this too including the express Chermside-RBWH 330 which also gets caught up in the Gympie Road and Murphy Road bottleneck. If the 336/337 ran more frequently during peak hour only and key corridors were introduced/promoted heavily (such as express running on the railway line) do you think locals would be more inclined to simply get on a route like the 336/337 which avoids a lot of the traffic, stops outside the front gate of a train station and board a train that runs more frequently than the bus network does with express running Northgate-Bowen Hills....... Fun fact currently the outbound 330 to Zillmere railway station + train to Roma Street or the 326 + ~8 minute interchange wait time + Caboolture all stopping service from Geebung to Roma Street is roughly/the same travel time as a single seat trip on the inbound 330 express buz from Zillmere state school to Roma Street during morning peak hour. Becomes even faster on the railway running express with a Geebung-Roma street transit time of 25 minutes with plenty of inner city time wasting

Everyone in Geebung drives to either Geebung railway station or in the middle of heavy industrial estates Sunshine railway station. Another popular trip that has come to play is to drive and park on Murphy Road and access the 330.

[James]

That said, how would you do it?

I'd go something like Hamilton, right Bilsen, left Rode, left Sandgate, right Cameron, right Cavendish, left Ryans, left Ridge, right Toombul St, right Gympie At, remove the parking bays closest to the platforms and create a one way bus platform using the existing entrance on Gympie and a new exit onto Ridge, with the balance of the carpark reconfigured to only be accessed by the existing Ridge St entrance. Buses could then go right onto Ridge, right Northgate and then on to wherever.

Reverse would be mostly the same except they might run down Gympie (although down Ridge, left Toombul St, right Gympie would be preferable if there was to be a stop on Ridge st anywhere), through the station and exit left into Ryans.

The fact is, Northgate is an annoying location to get to. The intersections and circling you need to do to access the station is incredibly frustrating, and it is right between two junctions with no easy main road access. It'd have to be the most poorly located junction station in all of Brisbane. I'd suggest from Rode Rd, turn left up Sandgate Rd, right into Northgate Rd, then right into Gympie St and stopping somewhere near the station. Possibly remove part of the carpark to allow the bus to terminate there. On the way back, just turn right up Ridge St and back the way you came.

If the road network weren't so restrictive going towards Chermside, you could route a straight-ish through section from Northgate Rd into Maynard St into Hamilton Rd. But alas, there's a piece of concrete there. Would be a perfect spot for a little bus jump though.

[techblitz]

522 under scrutiny once again......
2 major complaints in as many days from seperate commuters with an admittance today from translink that between 7am-8.30am they were running from 7-10 minutes late......yesterdays complainant saying its like that EVERYDAY.

yesterdays

Really getting tired of the 522 Springfield/Orion bus being late in the morning. It's on average 8-10 minutes late every day. The past two days it has arrived 11 minutes late which means I miss two trains to the city and then have to wait another 12 minutes for the next train. WHEN will you provide a rail link bus that does a circuit of Springfield Lakes and not have to travel through Goodna? There were Western Bus Service staff on the bus today doing training and they said this has been a longstanding issue with the times allocated for each service which are impossible to follow. I'm really tired of arriving late for work simply because a bus can't turn up on time to allow me to catch the train on time.

todays

At some point you will need to update the 522 timetable given every service I've caught this week has missed the connecting train. At this time of day that's now a half hour delay. I work in the city, live a five minute drive from Springfield Central station and catching the bus has doubled my commute.

[ozbob]

Thanks for the heads up TB.

I have raised these problems with TransLink before.  They said there would be a review.   I am not sure if TransLink has enough staff anymore to do much of anything ..

[techblitz]

no worries

and another one yesterday afternoon from another seperate 522 user....thats the concerning thing....these are all complaints from seperate people......poor ipswich line frequency is not helping the situation either...ozbob thanks to the 522/524(2 connection complaints this week as well)..... i think goodna may currently be the worst train station to connect to/from across the entire network!

I am not happy! Twice I have gone to catch bus 522 heading to Goodba station to catch the 12.57pm train and the bus has been late which in turn means I miss my train and have to try and reschedule the journey and end up missing my appointment time. This is not good enough. What is the point of having a journey planner if your buses are 10 minutes late!

[ozbob]

I spoke to our local MP about the children being left behind on the 524.  Hopefully something might come from that too.

As I said, certainly trying to get some action.

[ozbob]

With respect to connections at Goodna rail.  I find the most reliable method is to walk, out of peak. Which in my case is around 25 minutes.

A lot of people walk around at Goodna. Not every one can walk of course. 

Yo, it is often hit and miss for many sadly.  And then there are the cancellations, low frequency being cancelled is really hurting to the community.

[techblitz]

Doesnt help the walkers when the weroona pub side elevator is non-functional either.....was out of order(with no notice attached) on tuesday........walking up those stairs can be torture for some


Train frequency definitely works in with all of this.....virtually all the complaints are coming from lines on poor weekday 30 minute frequency which dont have competing BT/BCC style direct bus services........majority of complaints being from ipswich and gold coast lines...

Extra focus MUST be put into the gold coast and ipswich region bus/rail connections until the rail frequencies are upgraded outside of peak......accurate timetabling and operations from translink/bus operators is essential.......

[techblitz]

spoke to a regular 765 user yesterday who said she is absolutely sick of the 765 arriving late into varstiy lakes on weekends.She said it regularly runs 7-10 minutes late........leaving her with 25-30 min wait for next city train....hard to disagree with her....... because i caught it for the first time from the highway yesterday and it arrived 11 minutes late...100% strike rate woop woop....
I saw she was quite upset when talking to the bus driver....when she was finished..... i asked him whats the deal....
He said because the powers that be..... had him do a 760 southbound which regularly gets caught up in traffic on the m1/highway/airport into a 765 northbound which regularly gets caught up in traffic from the pines thru to christine ave....and thats on top of the d/running delays between tweed and elanora 

Seriously.....why would you roster like that when there are important rail connnection targets to make at varsity lakes?  something to do with bus avaiability? What is it? How often is this happening? Regularly by the sounds of it....

Extra focus MUST be put into the gold coast and ipswich region bus/rail connections until the rail frequencies are upgraded outside of peak......accurate timetabling and operations from translink/bus operators is essential.......

[STB]

spoke to a regular 765 user yesterday who said she is absolutely sick of the 765 arriving late into varstiy lakes on weekends.She said it regularly runs 7-10 minutes late........leaving her with 25-30 min wait for next city train....hard to disagree with her....... because i caught it for the first time from the highway yesterday and it arrived 11 minutes late...100% strike rate woop woop....
I saw she was quite upset when talking to the bus driver....when she was finished..... i asked him whats the deal....
He said because the powers that be..... had him do a 760 southbound which regularly gets caught up in traffic on the m1/highway/airport into a 765 northbound which regularly gets caught up in traffic from the pines thru to christine ave....and thats on top of the d/running delays between tweed and elanora 

Seriously.....why would you roster like that when there are important rail connnection targets to make at varsity lakes?  something to do with bus avaiability? What is it? How often is this happening? Regularly by the sounds of it....

Extra focus MUST be put into the gold coast and ipswich region bus/rail connections until the rail frequencies are upgraded outside of peak......accurate timetabling and operations from translink/bus operators is essential.......

Probably just HASTUS picking out the most efficient run on paper (obviously is different in reality) that Surfside Buslines is deciding that it works for them.

[ozbob]

^ authorities don't care. 

Feedback about these issues generally has been on the boil for a while now, it is just dismissed with bullsh%t customer-focus spin .. righto ...

Nothing is done. 

[James]

spoke to a regular 765 user yesterday who said she is absolutely sick of the 765 arriving late into varstiy lakes on weekends.She said it regularly runs 7-10 minutes late........leaving her with 25-30 min wait for next city train....hard to disagree with her....... because i caught it for the first time from the highway yesterday and it arrived 11 minutes late...100% strike rate woop woop....
I saw she was quite upset when talking to the bus driver....when she was finished..... i asked him whats the deal....
He said because the powers that be..... had him do a 760 southbound which regularly gets caught up in traffic on the m1/highway/airport into a 765 northbound which regularly gets caught up in traffic from the pines thru to christine ave....and thats on top of the d/running delays between tweed and elanora 

Seriously.....why would you roster like that when there are important rail connnection targets to make at varsity lakes?  something to do with bus avaiability? What is it? How often is this happening? Regularly by the sounds of it....

Extra focus MUST be put into the gold coast and ipswich region bus/rail connections until the rail frequencies are upgraded outside of peak......accurate timetabling and operations from translink/bus operators is essential.......

I can vouch for this too - I'm a 765 user whenever I'm down the coast, and the reliability of that service is awful. Before the bus network changes in 2014 the route was fine, but ever since I honestly don't think I've ever made a connection on the 765.

[techblitz]

grrr.....2 attempts for 2 failed connections at both Oxley and Sherwood today

599 scheduled to arr sherwood 5.24  actual 5.32 (including 6 minute stuffaround for driver change @ Sherwood depot)

springfield train o/b departs 5.30 ontime...next o/b springfield 32mins


now then lets change the unreliable modes!

o/b ippy scheduled arr oxley 4.05 pm....still had not arrived by 4.11...scheduled to arr darra 4.08pm
so there went my attempt at catching the 4.13pm 103.....next 103....5.10pm

this is why people lose faith in bus-rail conections and prefer single seat trips...

[ozbob]

^ daughter #2 was on the o/b Ippy apparently had some issues (BOBO) on the way out, was late as consequence.

[techblitz]

696 ran 12 mins late into kipparing...missing the inbound 4.16 train by 2 mins.

[Paul B]

Trying to avoid the rail buses, today I noticed another yawning gap between (infrequent) inbound buses.
Toombul Bus interchange on a Sunday evening:
inbound routes {301,306,300}  6:01/6:03/6:11 (53 min gap)
then nothing inbound until 7:03, 7:11 etc.

this i noticed a few weeks back on a weeknight: Toombul shopping station again:
306 and 322 both leaving toombul a minute apart then follow each other all the way to the city
6:29/6:34
322 picks up all the passengers, and 306 zooms past it empty/early in the city

[Otto]

After 8PM, route 222 then 200 leave Carindale 2 minutes apart, then 13 minutes to the next 222, 200. As they get to Cooparoo, they meet with the 61 heading to Ashgrove. During the day, it's a 222 then 200 4 minutes apart, then 11 minutes gap. You would think it would be better to have a consistent 7 / 8 minute gap between services.
This was fixed a few years ago, but then the old run them together situation has returned. 

[brissypete]

Similar happens on Coronation Drive inbound with multiple 45x routes within 5 minutes and the 41x routes in the same period as well.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk

[techblitz]

https://www.facebook.com/TransLinkQLD/posts/2494944593864924

Absolutely Rubbish bus service at Caloundra this morning the 605 towards Landsborough stn at 12pm didn't turn up but than it did 20mins later and then we had to transfer to another bus and than it was 10mins late then the train at landsb towards brisbane didnt wait for us and we had to wait 2 hours for the next train. No wonder everyone is using their cars in Caloundra no one takes public transport in Caloundra because its unreliable i should of known this i would rented a car. poor form state government

the dreaded missed connection and very long wait for next train.
the excuse offered up by depot(rang them this morning) was 'heavy traffic congestion'.
Its definitely suggested to travel to this region from Brisbane only on weekdays because of the threat that road congestion poses to the bus-rail connections....as well as the poorer weekend frequency offered up by translink/qr.

[ozbob]

Thanks TB. Good work ...