5 years and you lose your money

[tuxcomputers]

In this story Bob is quoted as saying

"Commuter advocate Robert Dow from Rail Back on Track said the system was "archaic" and would leave many people in the lurch."

Really, they have not used the card in 5 years, that is 1825 days and they are suddenly left in the lurch? Really? Suddenly after 5 years?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/translink-keeps-the-cash-on-176000-go-cards-that-have-been-unused-for-five-years/story-e6frg6n6-1226955130324

[colinw]

Two years more than an inactive bank account gets under current Federal legislation ...

[ozbob]

The context is a little out of place.  I was referring to the system of refunds etc.  and the lack of obvious expiry dates, particularly for concession cards. Not bothered by the 5 years at all actually, the money is still retrievable.

The go card system as administered by TransLink is not that user friendly.  If people are not able to use the online management it is clumsy at best.  There is no toll free number or call back service.  They spend a lot of money on mobile calls trying to sort issues at times.

... looming deadline is likely to go unnoticed by many with the expiry date not printed on the card – and only available through a retailer if the card is unregistered.

Commuter advocate Robert Dow from Rail Back on Track said the system was "archaic" and would leave many people in the lurch.

"There's no way most people would know the cards are about to expire," Mr Dow said.

"That's going to get them in a lot of strife when they go to use their cards after July and find they're no longer valid." ...

It is clear what I was on about ...  good try Tux ...

[tuxcomputers]

The story was about the cards not being used for 5 years and your comments were about the expiry date of the card......why again?

A simple call to the call centre with your card number and they you can tell instantly when the card expires, there is no need to register the card.

[red dragin]

The media has been running the two issues in the one story - Triple M was at 6.30am this morning when I first heard it today.

[ozbob]

The story might have had that as a headline but the comments I made were related to the overall system for management.

When one comments one has no idea what the headline is or how the story comes out.  It is the way of the world.

There is a very obvious solution to expiry dates, put them on the card.  This could be achieved with a sticker or a permanent marker of some sort.  Oyster card has no expiry dates and perhaps go card doesn't need them either, with the exception of concession cards.

There are constant reports by people, often school students etc. being caught out with expired cards.  Rather than come up with a simple solution to provide real ' customer service '  it is easier to continue to shoot the messenger?  Might be easier, certainly a lot less productive in the longer term.

As far as calling TransLink to check the expiry date I just did it. I have a few unregistered go cards. Hello, they wanted to ask a heap of  so called 'security questions' which kind of defeats the notion of an unregistered go card, and would not confirm the expiry.  Farce!  Just print expiry on the cards then if they have to have one ...

[ozbob]

http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/i-have-a-go-card

Expiry dates for go cards

It's important to ensure that your go card is valid for use on the network.

Expiry dates for go cards are:

    Adult - 10 years from the date of issue
    Child - on the child's 15th birthday
    Concession - the same day your concession card expires (concession go cards purchased online must have their expiry date set within 14 days of purchase)
    Senior - 10 years from date of issue

To check and update your expiry date, visit a selected go card retailer or Queensland Rail ticket office. Concession card holders will need to present a valid concession ID when updating their go card expiry date.

You can change your expiry date any time before the card expires or up until 90 days after.

go card travel credit won't expire, however when you top up online or over the phone, if you don't touch your go card to a card reader within 60 days, then your top up will be reversed and the money will be returned to your credit card.

Queenslander!

[ozbob]

7 News --> Go Card credits under threat

^ that is my hand.  Everyone has a spare go card or three ...   

[Derwan]

Yes - there are 2 issues at play.

1. Go card expiry (e.g. 10 years for adult cards)
2. Seizing funds for Go Cards that haven't been used for 5 years

Bob's comments on number 1 were put into a story that was about number 2.  This isn't Bob's fault.

I agree with Bob's comments on number 1.  The expiry date is shown if you log in (i.e. registered Go Cards).  For those who choose not to register their Go Card, they have no idea when it will expire.  (Or maybe the ticket machines display the expiry date?  I don't know as I don't use them.)

My first card expires in 2018.  Many cards will expire around 2018 or 2019 as this will be 10 years after the system was implemented.  I predict that there will be a lot of shocked people at this time!

After last night's story on the seizure of funds after 5 years, I grabbed my "spare" Go Card.  It expires in 2022 so I'm now going to use it as my main one and will transfer funds from the old one to it.  I'm good for another 8 years.

[ozbob]

Yo.  On 4BH yesterday I made the point that we don't have any real concerns with the fact the money on unused go cards will go into general revenue ostensibly for public transport infrastructure after 5 years, as it still can be claimed in any case. ( April 2014 http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/changes-to-go-card-rules-mean-credit-on-cards-not-used-for-five-years-is-re-invested-by-government/story-fnihsrf2-1226873495491 ).

During that interview I did raise the issue of no free-call number or call back service for go card issues as well.  This is a problem for many.

Managed to mention the lack of concession fares for unemployed in Queensland as well.  It was also a news item on Fairfax radio news both Saturday and Sunday.

I pointed out yet again the advantages of registering the go card in terms of expiry dates. Melbourne had a huge number of myki cards expire early this year, including one of mine.  I did receive email advice to that effect as my myki was registered.

[dancingmongoose]

The expiry date is shown if you log in (i.e. registered Go Cards).  For those who choose not to register their Go Card, they have no idea when it will expire.  (Or maybe the ticket machines display the expiry date?  I don't know as I don't use them.)

Not that I am aware of but they do display a 'card expires soon' message when you touch on with a month or less before expiry. I know because mine expires July 1st (concession) and it's been displaying every time this month.

I don't have a problem with the claiming of unused funds, if you haven't used it for 5 years you probably don't need it, however there should be a simple way to retrieve your money (it is yours after all) if this does happen.

[colinw]

5 years?  Go Card Terms & Conditions say TWO YEARS!  Terms & Conditions, point 11.

http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/terms-and-conditions

11. Where the go card has expired or been inactive for a period of 2 years, any balance on the card is returned to TransLink. The cardholder authorises TransLink to transfer that card balance to TransLink's account in accordance with the go card guide to balance transfers and refunds. The cardholder may claim the balance at any time provided the go card was registered or the unregistered go card can be produced.

[ozbob]

Col, I think the change is the money will now leave TransLink after 5 years and go into other areas eg. infrastructure.

... Although there is currently provision to divert unused go cards funds to the Public Trustee after two years, the law has not been acted upon ...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/changes-to-go-card-rules-mean-credit-on-cards-not-used-for-five-years-is-re-invested-by-government/story-fnihsrf2-1226873495491

[colinw]

Ah, ok! What a horrendous mess!  Why do we tie ourselves in these knots?

[ozbob]

It's Queensland, cobber, Queensland ....   

[tuxcomputers]

Yeah I forgot about the security questions.

If you are a regular user the devices will be warning you for at least 30 days that your card is expiring.

I guess the students are ignoring that message and it is Translinks fault? Really?

The ten years start when the cards are issued, they could be sitting on the in the shop for 2 months before being issued. Putting the expiry date on them is not workable.

Any location that allows you to add money to the card can tell you what the expiry date is....except for the buses.

[Fares_Fair]

5 years?  Go Card Terms & Conditions say TWO YEARS!  Terms & Conditions, point 11.

http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/terms-and-conditions

11. Where the go card has expired or been inactive for a period of 2 years, any balance on the card is returned to TransLink. The cardholder authorises TransLink to transfer that card balance to TransLink's account in accordance with the go card guide to balance transfers and refunds. The cardholder may claim the balance at any time provided the go card was registered or the unregistered go card can be produced.

This happened to my kids' go cards last year - after 2 years non-use we went to use them and found the money gone !
I had to fill in forms and send off to TL.
I wrote to the then D-G of TransLink about it, Mr Neil Scales. His office was very helpful.
We got our money back after handing back the cards.

Then in April 2014 the legislation was changed to this new 5 year situation and the money is taken for use in transport infrastructure. Just hope it's public transport. 

[Fares_Fair]

In this story Bob is quoted as saying

"Commuter advocate Robert Dow from Rail Back on Track said the system was "archaic" and would leave many people in the lurch."

Really, they have not used the card in 5 years, that is 1825 days and they are suddenly left in the lurch? Really? Suddenly after 5 years?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/translink-keeps-the-cash-on-176000-go-cards-that-have-been-unused-for-five-years/story-e6frg6n6-1226955130324

Yes, left in the lurch indeed.
Please see my post above after a 2 year hiatus.

[ozbob]

Tux .. apart from child and concession, do the go cards really need an expiry? 

[tuxcomputers]

Tux .. apart from child and concession, do the go cards really need an expiry?

Probably not but the devices require it to be entered on issue. The software would need to be altered.

If you have a card for 10 years and want to keep the same card the expiry date can be altered....well technically the devices can do it, dunno about TL policy though.

[red dragin]

I thought you just rung up and they added another ten years?

My original card (handed out at Caboolture at the very beginning) started peeling and we replaced it. I don't imagine they will last much more then 10 years. I replace my credit card every 18 months or so from wear and tear.

[STB]

If they have to put a date on it, why don't they just ask how old you are and then add on the amount of time to the card to when you are expected to retire and hence move onto a Seniors card?

[tuxcomputers]

I thought you just rung up and they added another ten years?

No, the expiry date is stored on the card itself, doing stuff in the backend does not change the card.

You have to have a device that is able to change the expiry of the card and they have to have that function enabled, not all agents have it enabled. If they can add money they can tell you the expiry date.

[Gazza]

Couldn't you put a sticker on yourself, or write on it in permanent marker when it will expire?

[Derwan]

Couldn't you put a sticker on yourself, or write on it in permanent marker when it will expire?

You've got to know the expiry date first. 

[tuxcomputers]

Couldn't you put a sticker on yourself, or write on it in permanent marker when it will expire?

You've got to know the expiry date first. 

If you can't get to a newsagent within the ten years the card is valid then you are not getting much use out of the card, go get your money back.

[ozbob]

Why not just use the system to vary expiry dates for go cards used within the last two years that approach the 10 year limit.  Just increment the expiry dates another ten years (exludes concession, child).

[Derwan]

If you can't get to a newsagent within the ten years the card is valid then you are not getting much use out of the card, go get your money back.

My point is that some people might be completely oblivious to the fact that there IS an expiry date.  If they top up at machines and never look online or get told about the expiry, they can't write  the expiry date on the card.

10 years is a long time.  As the first cards will start expiring in 2018, perhaps an advertising campaign would be warranted then.

Out of curiosity - for those with cards that have reached their expiry, if the card is REGISTERED, do you receive an email notifying you of the expiry?

I wonder if registered cards will invoke an email and/or letter to owners before the funds are seized for the 5-year thing!  It's the least TransLink could do to avoid issues.

[tuxcomputers]

Why not just use the system to vary expiry dates for go cards used within the last two years that approach the 10 year limit.  Just increment the expiry dates another ten years (exludes concession, child).

The system is not capable of that, it HAS to be done on the card at a device that is authorised to make alterations to the expiry date, it cannot be sent out across the network like refunds.

I don't think you understand that the card is THE authority of the balance, of the expiry date and a host of other things. The remaining balance in the database is just a reflection of what the cards tells the system it has.

The backend database can be changed as much as we want but it will NOT change the state of the card. It will still have the same expiry date, same balance etc, next transaction sent up from a device will overwrite the changes made manually.

[tuxcomputers]

Out of curiosity - for those with cards that have reached their expiry, if the card is REGISTERED, do you receive an email notifying you of the expiry?

I wonder if registered cards will invoke an email and/or letter to owners before the funds are seized for the 5-year thing!  It's the least TransLink could do to avoid issues.

Not at this time, it is certainly possible but currently there is no process that looks at the expiry date and sends anything.

When you register the card it only does a basic sanity check that the email address is in the correct format, it does not confirm the email address actually exists.

[ozbob]

Thanks Tux.  Just inquiring if it was possible.