Pre-election budget - 2014/15 Queensland

[ozbob]

Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson
http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2014/6/4/end-to-labors-fare-legacy

Wednesday, June 04, 2014

End to Labor's fare legacy

Millions of public transport passengers could save thousands of dollars as the Queensland Government ends Labor's on-going public transport fare hikes, delivering on the election promise to lower the cost of living.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said Labor's crippling 15 per cent annual fare hikes which began in 2009 would be a thing of the past, as the hard work to deliver a more efficient, frequent and reliable network paid off.

"The budget reveals any annual change to fares is not above inflation for the next three years," Mr Emerson said.

"We already halved Labor's increases, but through hard work and strong economic management we have been able to go even further and return costs to normal, delivering real savings for millions of people.

"This delivers on our election promise to lower the cost of living, particularly for passengers who have been hurt by the mismanagement of former Labor Transport Ministers Annastacia Palaszczuk and Rachel Nolan, who oversaw the hikes.

"Unlike the former Labor government we have a strong plan to improve public transport and revitalise frontline services, creating a brighter future for all passengers.

"Under our policies, a regular weekday two-zone passenger will be paying $1.20 less per journey, saving $750 per year compared to go card prices under Labor.

"A passenger from the Gold or Sunshine Coast will be better off by $4.30 per journey, saving $2,500 per year.

"Unlike Labor who announced its on-going 15 per cent fare hikes shortly after the 2009 budget, we've delivered on our commitment and found the savings to do more."

This commitment is on top of the successful free travel after nine weekly go card journeys.

Mr Emerson said the budget also revealed public transport patronage is ahead of its target, with 176.7 million trips taken in 2013-14, more than 1 million additional trips than the previous year.

"Fixing affordability is the final plank of our plan to get people back on to public transport," he said.

"We've already taken train reliability from a three-low to an all-time high and added more than 1,000 additional weekly train and 2,000 additional weekly bus services."

[ENDS] 4 June 2014

[ozbob]

Booked for 6.45am 4BC Newstalk Breakfast Ian and Loretta ...

[ozbob]

I know from discussions with COTA (Council of the Aged), Older People Speaking Out, QCOSS, the projected fare increases for concession holders will be devastating for the majority.  The fact that unemployed continue to suffer full fares is going cause massive issues as well.  The election can not come faster enough now.

[ozbob]

Booked for 6.45am 4BC Newstalk Breakfast Ian and Loretta ...

Able raise the potential impacts on concession fares.  Thanks for the opportunity Ian and Loretta and 4BC ..

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow 2m

Today on @NewsTalk4BC I made a plea to @theqldpremier & @scottemersonmp to not punish concession holders with massive fare increases #qldpol

[ozbob]

http://www.4bc.com.au/blogs/2014-4bc-breakfast-audio-blog/concession-commuters-take-a-hit/20140604-39hpv.html

Concession commuters take a hit
Posted by: Candice Marshall | 4 June, 2014 - 8:10 AM

4BC Breakfast: The state budget announced yesterday brings good and bad news for southeast Queensland's public transport users.

Fares will rise by 2.5 per cent, but this increase has been capped, meaning no more unwanted surprises for commuters for at least three years.   

However, the bad news is for concession card holders, especially seniors and students who rely on affordable public transport.

Treasurer Tim Nicholls hinted the discount for concession fares could be reduced to 35 per cent instead of the current 50 per cent saving.

The prospect of this has angered commuter and  sustainable transport advocate Robert Dow from Rail Back on Track.

Mr Dow told Ian and Loretta seniors and students are already doing it hard.

For them to wear a fare increase, we think is unacceptable. We are pleading with the Premier, with the Minister for Transport, to not further increase fares for concession holders, he said.

Mr Dow said loss of access to affordable public transport will have a knock-on effect on the health of seniors.

"They need to get out and about, if you reduce the mobility of the aged, you end up having a lot greater costs to the healthcare sector. The lose their social mobility, their health and well being suffers.

"Are these really outcomes that we want for our community?" 

Interview --> here!

[Derwan]

The LNP appears happy to slug concession-holders because of changes made by the federal government - and yet they rule out things like a co-payment at hospitals for non-emergency visits (where people should have gone to a GP).  Their priorities are screwed!

Do politicians not have parents?

Many politicians are 2nd or 3rd generation so their parents get the poly-pension and perks - not the standard pension.  For those who don't have ex-poly parents, it'll certainly make for interesting conversation at the next family dinner!

[ozbob]

Twitter

Scott Emerson ‏@scottemersonmp

PT trips up 1mill in 2013-14 with more reliable/frequent services & ending ALP's 15% fare hikes. Fares capped below inflation for next 3yrs.

===============

^

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow

. @scottemersonmp An increase of 0.6%, not even keeping up with service km increases or population growth, in fact backwards .. #qldpol

[STB]

Honestly I think this just links to the conservatives and right wingers thinking that each is equal and if you screw up well that's your fault, we're not going to help you out when you need it, along with the idea that less government is better government, and these are the consequences you see when that ideology takes over from common sense. 

It's a sad state of affairs with sadly a population that is still coming to grips that countries operate in debt already, and do just fine, but yet when you demand these sorts of things, especially on right wing governments like Abbott and Newman, you get these stupid budgets that cause more damage to the economy and well being of communities than good.

I may sound that I'm getting political, but that's the way I see it.  You've got to take care of the community when they need it and spend money to get the economy going, through investments and infrastructure, it's simple.

[ozbob]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> What about us? Railway plan angers Sunshine Coast commuters

[Gazza]

Sorry but I don't agree with attacking the kippa ring rail. They have been waiting 100 years for their rail too you know, and in any case the money was allocated way back when Gillard funded it.

What next?   Attacking thr GCLRT due to it not carrying freight.

Finally,  the SC may have 300,000 people but most live too far away from the current line to use it on a daily basis.  A bit like saying the Springfield line applies to browns plains residents

[dancingmongoose]

So students are expected to pay even more while receiving less help, and given greater debts and being forced to repay sooner? Seems to me like a very deliberate attack on my generation. Want to screw up the future? Too late, the politicians have already done it.

[ozbob]

Channel 10 News have done an interview at my office .. Goodna rail station precinct ..   

[Fares_Fair]

Sorry but I don't agree with attacking the kippa ring rail. They have been waiting 100 years for their rail too you know, and in any case the money was allocated way back when Gillard funded it.

What next?   Attacking thr GCLRT due to it not carrying freight.

Finally,  the SC may have 300,000 people but most live too far away from the current line to use it on a daily basis.  A bit like saying the Springfield line applies to browns plains residents

Hi Gazza,

This is what I said... yes, it is old news and was signed off by Gillard Government under a 3 way finance spilt.
Yes, they have been waiting for 110 years for rail.
and no I am not attacking the MBRL, read the closing sentence, it sums it up succinctly.

"I don't want to take away the train track from the people of Redcliffe, after 100 years of waiting, but merely just to highlight the priority and that they're getting two tracks just for passenger services, while the Sunshine Coast is left with one and we've also got freight and long distance trains to boot," he said.

[Fares_Fair]

Channel 10 News have done an interview at my office .. Goodna rail station precinct ..   

[Gazza]

Sorry but I don't agree with attacking the kippa ring rail. They have been waiting 100 years for their rail too you know, and in any case the money was allocated way back when Gillard funded it.

What next?   Attacking thr GCLRT due to it not carrying freight.

Finally,  the SC may have 300,000 people but most live too far away from the current line to use it on a daily basis.  A bit like saying the Springfield line applies to browns plains residents

Hi Gazza,

This is what I said... yes, it is old news and was signed off by Gillard Government under a 3 way finance spilt.
Yes, they have been waiting for 110 years for rail.
and no I am not attacking the MBRL, read the closing sentence, it sums it up succinctly.

"I don't want to take away the train track from the people of Redcliffe, after 100 years of waiting, but merely just to highlight the priority and that they're getting two tracks just for passenger services, while the Sunshine Coast is left with one and we've also got freight and long distance trains to boot," he said.

Yeah but it's a greenfield project so of course its going to be double track, especially considering how much more intensive the peak service requirement will be.

This is in contrast to the complexity of the SC project, which requires acquisition for the new sections of the alignment and working around an existing corridor where duplication is occurring.

You make it sound as if "two tracks" are a finite resource and kippa ring is using them unduly.

[#Metro]

1. Sunshine Coast Line extensions can be funded from a regional rail tax implemented by the SC council.

$3 billion divided by 330 000 divided by 30 years (rough lifecycle) = $303 per year. Some people may say that $100 per year is reasonable, and this is possible if the other 2/3 is paid by a mix of state and feds. You don't even need the plans to begin funding this - collect the money and while you fight with other levels of gov't, put it in an investment company and make it grow (similar to QIC, Future Fund). You could even contract QIC to do this.

The way to do it on the cheap would be to do the duplication and then extend the line the bare minimum possible into the SC, building as few stations as possible so in this case to Caloundra, and then feed the bus system into it. When funds become available then you can incrementally extend it up the coast.

You could split some of the cost against the Australian Government (either directly or through ARTC) due to the fact that it is a national line that also carries freight. The state should pay a portion, again because it crosses a number of council areas, freight reasons and feeds into Brisbane.

So I think the way to do it is to split it three ways as with Redcliffe. Get the financing agreement and the basic plan and build support.

[#Metro]

2. Fares

I think the fares can be solved by doing a trade.

* Get rid of 9-then free. This gives people free trips who would have them anyway, after all people do need to go home after work on fridays anyway, they are not going to skip this trip if they have to pay! You have to question what the purpose of 9 then free is? Is it welfare? (No - people using it are already likely to have a job given that it goes mostly to workers) Is it patronage enhancement (No - full time workers need to make the return trip home on friday anyway). So it must be political pork...

The number of people on Centerlink unemployed is probably close to those also getting 9-then free. So swap the funds used on paying 9 then free and give it to the unemployed.

Next issue is the concession fares. Convert train guards to drivers - this will over time cut rail supply costs by 50% compared with the alternative (expand network with 2 staff per train). More trains stimulates patronage directly, facilitates bus network reorganization (more $$$) and ultimately lowers fares through network efficiency over time.

[Arnz]

Any part of CAMCOS from Beerwah to the coast will not attract federal funding while Mr Abbott is PM.(for obvious reasons).  Another alternative is the SCRC absorbing part of the cost for duplication & realignment works (for stations & park and rides) as Lapdog said above, although that could easily be absorbed by raising the existing PT levy rather than introducing another tax.

[Arnz]

Fares suggestion:

Replace 9 and Free with 8 and Half Price for non-Pensioners. (Adults, Child, School/Tertiary Students).
Pensioners keep the current two trip cap arrangement (9th trip on Friday and weekends are half-price with the two trip cap applied).

Preferably Concessions are kept to 50%, if not Then;
Concession fares anywhere between 40%-45% for non Newstart HCC holders.
If concessions for other holders are reduced to 40-45%, then put the savings back into funding a 20% discount for Newstart HCC holders.

Not ideal, though the savings can be put back into those that need it and reduce some of the farebox leakage.

[ozbob]

Channel 10 News Brisbane 4th June 2014  home filming off TV, bit noisy.

[STB]

Honestly I think this just links to the conservatives and right wingers thinking that each is equal and if you screw up well that's your fault, we're not going to help you out when you need it, along with the idea that less government is better government, and these are the consequences you see when that ideology takes over from common sense. 

It's a sad state of affairs with sadly a population that is still coming to grips that countries operate in debt already, and do just fine, but yet when you demand these sorts of things, especially on right wing governments like Abbott and Newman, you get these stupid budgets that cause more damage to the economy and well being of communities than good.

I may sound that I'm getting political, but that's the way I see it.  You've got to take care of the community when they need it and spend money to get the economy going, through investments and infrastructure, it's simple.

Chicken and egg sydrome isn't it. If the previous govt in both Qld and Fed have left their respective budget's in a reasonable state without excessive levels of debt and deficits, these "Stupid budgets" wouldn't need to occur and they could focus on developing the economy rather saving it.

We all have to live within our means at home, same applies at govt level unless you want to end up like Greece/Spain where you have cut backs that makes Qlds cutbacks look like loose change.

The problem is that this stupid budget is targeting the poor, elderly and infirm.  Govt debt is different to personal debt, and we're one of the lowest in debt countries in the world.  The way I'm seeing it is if you put it in a personal debt viewpoint, is that you have a mortgage and have decided to not buy food, water or fuel for your car until you've paid it off, as that's pretty much what the current governments are doing to people who are on struggle street.

The US Government has more than a trillion $ of debt, and yet they are still functioning, and this is despite doing a similar thing to what the current governments are wanting to do, by creating further divide between rich and poor, and letting the poor suffer.

[STB]

Sorry but I don't agree with attacking the kippa ring rail. They have been waiting 100 years for their rail too you know, and in any case the money was allocated way back when Gillard funded it.

What next?   Attacking thr GCLRT due to it not carrying freight.

Finally,  the SC may have 300,000 people but most live too far away from the current line to use it on a daily basis.  A bit like saying the Springfield line applies to browns plains residents

From memory, both sides of federal politics vowed to co fund the Kippa Ring railway, both Abbott and Gillard, so it wasn't simply a Gillard thing.  On top of that, they have been waiting over 100 years for it, and the growth in that area is quite high, with traffic problems already around the North Lakes area in particular.  It will pay off in the long run.

[Gazza]

The way I'm seeing it is if you put it in a personal debt viewpoint, is that you have a mortgage and have decided to not buy food, water or fuel for your car until you've paid it off, as that's pretty much what the current governments are doing to people who are on struggle street.

Spot on.

[Old Northern Road]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> What about us? Railway plan angers Sunshine Coast commuters

What a disgraceful article.

No Moreton Bay doesn't have a population of 330,934 like the Sunshine Coast, it has a population of 399,406. More importantly over 50% of the population of Moreton Bay commute to Brisbane every day compared to only around 5% of the population of the Sunshine Coast. There is a very good reason why the Redcliffe peninsular has the highest unemployment rate in SEQ.

Dishonest garbage like that does the Sunshine Coast's cause more harm than good.

[James]

Concession fares effectively being increased by 33%. One zone peak will now cost me $2.36, in one direction. Total average cost will be $4.28 per day. For me to park at UQ, assuming I get $3/day parking, it is now $1.28 cheaper, ignoring fuel costs (which is minimal, because I live nearby). It is a total and utter joke.

Someone who should be walking to University or catching PT will be driving come 2015. It makes no sense to penalise short commuters while long-distance commuters get a seat, cheaper fares (in terms of km-travelled) and a free lapdog. It is an absolute and utter fuking farce...

[techblitz]

There is a very good reason why the Redcliffe peninsular has the highest unemployment rate in SEQ.

caboolture is propping up the moreton bay north figures.. both ipswich & moreton bay north have 8.9% as of april 2014 and are equal first on unemployment % 

It makes no sense to penalise short commuters while long-distance commuters get a seat, cheaper fares (in terms of km-travelled

disagree........it makes perfect sense actually......the fare rises arent good but the notion of giving outer suburb commuters a fairer deal on longer distances travelled is a winner.......unemployment figures in the outer suburbs alone are enough reason(eg: moreton bay north/ipswich)....every little benefit counts if they need to travel longer distances to find a job.....anyway its not as if they are immune to the shorter expensive trips.......a lot have to travel only 1 zone to do shopping @ thier local.

PS: long distance commuters dont  always get a seat.....more 3 car sets at peak just upped the anti on that one...

[STB]

The Newman Government has backflipped on Senior and Pensioner concessions.

From The Brisbane Times live feed:

9:38am Amy Remeikis: The Queensland government will make up the shortfall in the federal government concession cuts.
Premier Campbell Newman said "this is a government that listens" and while still blaming the federal government, said his government would reinstate the full concession rate for pensioners and seniors.
It will cost the state about $54 million in the next financial year. Mr Newman said the government would continue to lobby the Commonwealth.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/brisbane-live/brisbane-live-thursday-june-5-2014-20140604-39iow.html#ixzz33iivoar5

[ozbob]

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2014/6/5/weve-listened-government-to-support-full-concessions

JOINT STATEMENT
Premier
The Honourable Campbell Newman
Treasurer and Minister for Trade

The Honourable Tim Nicholls
Thursday, June 05, 2014

We've listened: Government to support full concessions

Queenslanders who benefit from concession payments will not suffer any reduction in payments as a result of cuts announced in the Federal Budget.

Premier Campbell Newman said the State Government had listened to Queenslanders' concerns and will act.

"Pensioners and older Queenslanders have told us that they simply can't wear the cost of filling the gap between Queensland's increased contribution, and the Commonwealth Government's concessions cuts and increased fees and taxes," Mr Newman said.

"That's why today I'm announcing that we've not only listened to Queenslanders, but we've acted, within the space of two days, to reinstate the full level of pensioner and senior concessions.

"Passing on part of the Commonwealth's cuts to pensioner concessions is clearly not an acceptable outcome for Queenslanders."

Mr Newman said the Commonwealth should be bearing the burden of these cuts, not Queenslanders.

"We will be continuing to send a clear message to the Commonwealth that Queenslanders won't stand for these kinds of cuts," he said.

Treasurer and Minister for Trade Tim Nicholls said the Newman Government was still considering the impact of Commonwealth decisions on our budget, but Queenslanders had put a strong case for the Government not to pass on the unexpected cuts delivered by the Commonwealth.

"It is the Commonwealth Government that's caused this problem with pensioner cuts and increased charges.

"We're very conscious of the 'double whammy' impact of the Federal Government's changes to pensions and the removal of concessions funding," Mr Nicholls said.

"So we will be looking at all opportunities to withhold and recoup funding from Commonwealth programs and initiatives that they ask States to contribute to from time to time, to make up for the shortfall they've created.

"These are the sorts of budget shocks that Queensland finds it difficult to absorb while we are burdened with $80 billion of debt.

"Our ability to respond is restricted by our need to find $4 billion every year to pay our interest bill.

"It's why we've made the strongest and smartest choice to reduce the debt through a series of asset transactions that would deliver financial security for Queensland."

[ENDS] 5 June 2014

[James]

disagree........it makes perfect sense actually......the fare rises arent good but the notion of giving outer suburb commuters a fairer deal on longer distances travelled is a winner.......unemployment figures in the outer suburbs alone are enough reason(eg: moreton bay north/ipswich)....every little benefit counts if they need to travel longer distances to find a job.....anyway its not as if they are immune to the shorter expensive trips.......a lot have to travel only 1 zone to do shopping @ thier local.

PS: long distance commuters dont  always get a seat.....more 3 car sets at peak just upped the anti on that one...

So people who choose to live in outer suburban woop-woop should get fares which are cheaper per-km? How about making it even (or roughly even) for everybody.

Really the fare system needs to be fixed up generally, there's no point debating cheaper fares for some when the fact is, the entire thing is a disaster. And techblitz, most do, note there are no 3-car trains on the interurban lines (aside from one Nambour train).

[Fares_Fair]

Sunshine Coast Daily --> What about us? Railway plan angers Sunshine Coast commuters

What a disgraceful article.

No Moreton Bay doesn't have a population of 330,934 like the Sunshine Coast, it has a population of 399,406. More importantly over 50% of the population of Moreton Bay commute to Brisbane every day compared to only around 5% of the population of the Sunshine Coast. There is a very good reason why the Redcliffe peninsular has the highest unemployment rate in SEQ.

Dishonest garbage like that does the Sunshine Coast's cause more harm than good.

Disgraceful..

So you are comparing the Moreton Bay population already serviced by the current track from Elimbah to Strathpine in your population quote.
Now look who's putting out rubbish.

Moreton Bay
Population, dwellings and ethnicity
The Census population of Moreton Bay in 2011 was 378,039, living in 148,769 dwellings with an average household size of 2.70.

Look at the attached map, most of that population is already serviced by the current track.
There is nothing disgraceful or rubbish in the story.

The MAIN point being the disparity between single track shared with freight and distance travel trains up the Queensland Coast to Cairns, compared to 2 tracks for passengers alone


Population Projections for Statistical Local Areas (SLAs) in region.
These are the areas you include in your population statistics.
The areas shown in bold (16 out of 24 statistical areas) are serviced by the current line.
That's 2/3rd's of them all serviced by the current line.

Please research properly before making unjust and spurious claims.
I am NOT dishonest and always research the facts.

SLA NAME

Bribie Island
Burpengary / Narangba
Caboolture (S) - Central
Caboolture (S) - East
Caboltolture (S) - hinterland
Caboolture (S) - Midwest
Deception Bay
Morayfield
Caboolture
Albany Creek
Bray Park
Central Pine West
Dakabin / Kallangur / Murrumba  Downs
Griffin / Mango Hill
The Hills District
Lawnton
Strathpine / Brendale
Pine Rivers (S) Bal
Pine Rivers
Clontarf
Margate / Woody Point
Redcliffe / Scarborough
Rothwell / Kippa-Ring
Redcliffe


I don't question your additional claims of unemployment because I haven't researched them, but then that has nothing to do with the story you wrongfully rubbish.
It's obvious why only 5% (your figure, I will need to check this) of the Sunshine Coast commute - it's called rotten apples.

[techblitz]

kind of ironic the picture in that article........surely you could have found a seat in all that jeff

@ james

the zones need to be reworked for certain but you would never ever see near simlilar fares for someone travelling 2 zones and say 8 zones...or 4 zones and say 22 zones......and its proposterous to think that it ever should..

melbourne myki daily full fare

Zone 1 travel in that only : 7.16
Zone 2 travel in that zone only: 4.96
zones 1& 2 combined 12.12

^^^ pretty optimal imo

i think you need to get back to reality a bit and get out of your "what makes outer suburban commuters so special that they deserve this"  mentality....

[James]

@ james

the zones need to be reworked for certain but you would never ever see near simlilar fares for someone travelling 2 zones and say 8 zones...or 4 zones and say 22 zones......and its proposterous to think that it ever should..

melbourne myki daily full fare

Zone 1 travel in that only : 7.16
Zone 2 travel in that zone only: 4.96
zones 1& 2 combined 12.12

^^^ pretty optimal imo

i think you need to get back to reality a bit and get out of your "what makes outer suburban commuters so special that they deserve this"  mentality....

Myki only has two zones and doesn't cover interurban areas, comparing apples with oranges...

It is grossly inefficient, both in terms of resources and in terms of travel costs, to travel 50km+ (one way) just to get to work every morning! People say it is a "lifestyle choice" and it is nice "enjoying the outer suburban lifestyle", well given one has to leave home at 7am and doesn't get home until 6:30pm when one lives in the outer suburbs, I can hardly consider that an enjoyable "lifestyle" at all. I choose to live close to my place of work, yet for some reason my bus fare subsidises people who choose to live out in the middle of damn nowhere!

Residents of Logan, Redlands and Gold Coast get their very own express buses/express trains in peak, yet whinge about how "fares are too expensive" - well guess what, it costs significantly more to provide a bus service from Zone 6/7/8 to the CBD than it does to provide a bus service from Zone 1/2/3 to the CBD. Fares should reflect that, right now, they don't. The flagfall is extortion.

A fair fare system would have $2 base fare one-zone adult peak, increasing by 50c for zones 2-11 and then $1 for zones 11+. 50% concession discount and 35% off-peak discount.

[SurfRail]

kind of ironic the picture in that article........surely you could have found a seat in all that jeff

@ james

the zones need to be reworked for certain but you would never ever see near simlilar fares for someone travelling 2 zones and say 8 zones...or 4 zones and say 22 zones......and its proposterous to think that it ever should..

melbourne myki daily full fare

Zone 1 travel in that only : 7.16
Zone 2 travel in that zone only: 4.96
zones 1& 2 combined 12.12

^^^ pretty optimal imo

i think you need to get back to reality a bit and get out of your "what makes outer suburban commuters so special that they deserve this"  mentality....

No.  Just no.

Next we will hear claims that people travelling from further out should be given cheaper fares on an absolute basis, like the moronic NSW branch of the RTBU has recently suggested.

[Gazza]

The MAIN point being the disparity between single track shared with freight and distance travel trains up the Queensland Coast to Cairns, compared to 2 tracks for passengers alone

By all means, continue to fight for the SC line to be upgraded, but dragging up comparisons to the Kippa Ring line does zero to advance your argument.

-The lack of a double track through the SC is causing a spillover of freight onto the roads, but at the same time a lack of rail on the peninsular is causing a spillover onto the Bruce and Gateway motorways (And probably also contributed to the Houghton highway bridge needing duplication). The massive demand at petrie for park and ride is further evidence of this.

-No doubt that the sunshine coast case is a strong one, but the Kippa Ring line has had its own lengthy work up process and strong case for it. It was almost going to be built before Beattie decided not to.

-Finally, the Kippa Ring project costs less, and will get higher patronage. Granted, this doesn't account for the value of freight, but it's still going to be a strongly performing line.

[newbris]

Out of interest, peak go-card trips to Brisbane CBD:

Someone in Gympie pays 13c per km.

Someone in Nambour pays 16c per km.

Someone in Robina pays 17c per km.

Someone in Ipswich pays 20c per km.

Someone in Cleveland pays 26c per km.

Someone in Carindale pays 47c per km.

I pay $1 per km. Ouch. 

[Derwan]

It is grossly inefficient, both in terms of resources and in terms of travel costs, to travel 50km+ (one way) just to get to work every morning! People say it is a "lifestyle choice" and it is nice "enjoying the outer suburban lifestyle", well given one has to leave home at 7am and doesn't get home until 6:30pm when one lives in the outer suburbs, I can hardly consider that an enjoyable "lifestyle" at all. I choose to live close to my place of work, yet for some reason my bus fare subsidises people who choose to live out in the middle of damn nowhere!

Well said James!  I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, am not targeting anyone and am speaking very generally - but I have to say I get quite annoyed about the emphasis placed on either Gold Coast or Sunshine Coast Lines - where people are essentially expecting a "suburban" style service - in frequency, travel time and fares.  People complain about their train not running express through a few stations because it takes longer.  Well try living a bit closer to work if it's that big a deal!

Interurban rail has its place, but it's NOT an alternative to living within 50km of your workplace.

[techblitz]

So people who choose to live in outer suburban woop-woop should get fares which are cheaper per-km? How about making it even (or roughly even) for everybody.

care to actually reclarify this statement james or were you just talking hot air for the sake of it (not the first time)

we are actually talking about people in outer suburbia getting larger discounts for the longer distances/more zones travelled to the city arent we?
Youve just given a 50 percent base fare discount to travellers who are in zone 11+ on a commute to the cbd as opposed to someone travelling a single zone.

Since youve actually changed your stance on this matter mid-conversation.....you have now brought us closer with these cities    (golf clap)

Perth

1 zone travel: 2.80     9 zones travel 11.80
non discounted would be 25.20 for the 9 zone travel.....discount =  55%

Sydney opal card & works out @ 5 distance categorised zones and caps in place
up to 10km = max 26.40 per week
over 65km = max 60.00 per week
non discounted would be 132 for over 65km......discount = 55%

London

oyster pay as you go adult
1 zone travel peak 2.20     1-9 zone travel peak 6.90
non discounted 1-9 would be 19.80 ...discount = 65%


Melbourne regional

travel zone 1-2   6.06
travel zone 1-13 27.60
non discounted  zone 1- 13 would be 78.00...discount = 65% discount


either way james......your still supporting a decent enough discount ( not even or roughly even).... for outer suburb commuters to travel to the cbd than the inner city dwellers such as yourself.....and hence cheaper fares for them and more for you..

[James]

So people who choose to live in outer suburban woop-woop should get fares which are cheaper per-km? How about making it even (or roughly even) for everybody.

care to actually reclarify this statement james or were you just talking hot air for the sake of it (not the first time)

we are actually talking about people in outer suburbia getting larger discounts for the longer distances/more zones travelled to the city arent we?
Youve just given a 50 percent base fare discount to travellers who are in zone 11+ on a commute to the cbd as opposed to someone travelling a single zone.

Since youve actually changed your stance on this matter mid-conversation.....you have now brought us closer with these cities    (golf clap)

either way james......your still supporting a decent enough discount ( not even or roughly even).... for outer suburb commuters to travel to the cbd than the inner city dwellers such as yourself.....and hence cheaper fares for them and more for you..

"Even" was a poor choice of words (and is mathematically difficult to achieve due to the zonal system), I shall admit, but the flagfall is far too high, and this is the issue. You know it techblitz, stop trying to defend the system. As a percentage, a 1 zone fare is 25% of a 16-zone fare. Really that figure should be closer to 16% or so. (i.e. instead of $1.50 vs $6 approximately, it should be $1 vs. $6 approximately). The current long-distance commute fares are about right, but short distance is practically extortion.

Ideally I would not mind charging 75c/zone for zones 2 - 11 and then $1.50 from there on, although given the disastrous milk run the Sunshine Coast line is, nobody can justify charging as much as commuters do to use the trains on that line. It is practically a service to the community to use it. No excuse for the Gold Coast line though, really it is just as fast as the car in peak. If the SC line was up to GC line standards, I wouldn't hesitate to charge those kinds of fares, especially given the Bruce Highway + Gympie Rd is cactus.

[STB]

It is grossly inefficient, both in terms of resources and in terms of travel costs, to travel 50km+ (one way) just to get to work every morning! People say it is a "lifestyle choice" and it is nice "enjoying the outer suburban lifestyle", well given one has to leave home at 7am and doesn't get home until 6:30pm when one lives in the outer suburbs, I can hardly consider that an enjoyable "lifestyle" at all. I choose to live close to my place of work, yet for some reason my bus fare subsidises people who choose to live out in the middle of damn nowhere!

Well said James!  I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, am not targeting anyone and am speaking very generally - but I have to say I get quite annoyed about the emphasis placed on either Gold Coast or Sunshine Coast Lines - where people are essentially expecting a "suburban" style service - in frequency, travel time and fares.  People complain about their train not running express through a few stations because it takes longer.  Well try living a bit closer to work if it's that big a deal!

Interurban rail has its place, but it's NOT an alternative to living within 50km of your workplace.

Just to chip in here, my mind boggles when people choose to live 50km+ away from their workplace.  They say they do it for the lifestyle, well how the heck are you supposed to enjoy the lifestyle when you are travelling up to 3-4hrs or more everyday?

Common sense please.  If you want to work in Brisbane, live within the Brisbane surrounds, if you want to work on the Gold Coast, live on the Gold Coast, if you want to work on the Sunshine Coast, live on the Sunshine Coast.

My personal rule, don't live beyond 20kms from where you work.