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Author Topic: Unemployment etc. split from Re: QueenslandRail Driver Only Operation (DOO)  (Read 3003 times)

Offline #Metro

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In Qld Public Sector we generally use around 27% on top of base salary to cover super, leave, office space etc... which is $101,600 on an 80k salary.

 :-w :yikes:

People struggling on unemployment payments or minimum wage jobs being hit by the high PT costs can only dream of a salary like this!!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 03:11:58 AM by ozbob »
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Offline MichaelJ

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Well, unemployed people should put more effort into getting a job. I'm sick of paying their way. I make sacrifices to earn my good money, why should they get life on a silver platter?

The Welfare Section of the Budget is the one part I agree with.
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Offline #Metro

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Well, unemployed people should put more effort into getting a job. I'm sick of paying their way. I make sacrifices to earn my good money, why should they get life on a silver platter?

The Welfare Section of the Budget is the one part I agree with.

Disagree. There is no silver platter.

Newstart ($510 fortnight) is FAR below the minimum wage ($1227.75 a fortnight, based on 38.5 hour workweek). In fact, it is equal to an income of about ~$6.60 per hour or so).

I had a good job, and then I lost it. That could be any of us. The cheapest and most efficient way to insure against unemployment is to have everybody in society contribute to the welfare pot.

I was unemployed for 6 months last year, wrote 200+ job applications and had a 98% rejection rate, flew around the entire country to attend job interviews, scraped by on an equivalent of $6.60 per hour "wage" for performing Centrelink compliance activities and had to pay FULL FARE for PT and watch the TransLink fare machine eat $20 and $50 bills at a time.

One of the contributing reasons for these high fares (and also low frequency) is the inefficiency in the bus network design and the 100% cost escalation on rail (due to no DOO or ATP). Labor is the largest cost driver for PT. I don't think I should be paying for that inefficiency.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 10:31:16 PM by Lapdog Transit »
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Offline dancingmongoose

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Well, unemployed people should put more effort into getting a job. I'm sick of paying their way. I make sacrifices to earn my good money, why should they get life on a silver platter?

The Welfare Section of the Budget is the one part I agree with.

Some of us aren't so lucky. I decided against getting a part time job in high school to put my studies first. As a result I cannot get any work as I do not have any experience, despite having done volunteer retail work. The only work I have managed to scrape up is delivering local papers which doesn't even cover the cost of travelling 3 zones 8 times per week on student rates. I have 3K in the bank that I have saved over many years. I finish my diploma in around a months time. I'm expected to find a job (note: obscenely high transport fares), and live for 6 months, on 3 grand? Good f#$%ing luck with that.

That's not the mention a) the tertiary education debt b) the current medication costs c) I require kidney surgery sometime in the near future, and a knee reconstruction further down the track.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 01:13:23 AM by dancingmongoose »

Offline MichaelJ

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I worked in Hospitality whilst studying Advertising/Marketing at University. Both full-time hours/loading. It was bloody hard work; I don't know how I managed it.

Upon graduating, it took me 18 months to find a job in advertising/marketing. I applied for scores of jobs and practically had to sell my soul to the devil to get a job with no experience.

After two years, I decided that the money wasn't worth the amount of hours I had to work so I moved to Sydney and joined the railways.

I worked hard to achieve what I have now and that's why I'm saying the world doesn't owe you a living. It's a cruel world out there and unemployment benefits only support the weak.
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Offline aldonius

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The whole point of having a social security system, public health and education is to make the world less uncaringly cruel.

Same deal with human development in general for that matter. Abstraction layers on abstraction layers.

Offline dancingmongoose

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Upon graduating, it took me 18 months to find a job in advertising/marketing. I applied for scores of jobs and practically had to sell my soul to the devil to get a job with no experience.

And under the proposed system you would still have no job as you would not be able to afford to live let alone move.

Offline longboi

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I worked in Hospitality whilst studying Advertising/Marketing at University. Both full-time hours/loading. It was bloody hard work; I don't know how I managed it.

Upon graduating, it took me 18 months to find a job in advertising/marketing. I applied for scores of jobs and practically had to sell my soul to the devil to get a job with no experience.

After two years, I decided that the money wasn't worth the amount of hours I had to work so I moved to Sydney and joined the railways.

I worked hard to achieve what I have now and that's why I'm saying the world doesn't owe you a living. It's a cruel world out there and unemployment benefits only support the weak.

Umm...working in hospitality while studying full time isn't doing it tough. It's pretty much standard.

It's funny, you talk about welfare recipients having everything handed to them on a silver platter. From the experience you have detailed here, it sounds like you had a pretty stock-standard middle class upbringing and know nothing of disadvantage or what it's like to struggle for the basics.

I don't expect you to understand the concept but essentially much of your success is about your social environment and not your own individual achievements.

Offline MichaelJ

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To make the above judgements you must have been super person. Please, do tell us about your similar experience.
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Offline techblitz

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no nikko full time study and full time emplyment is not standard practice.....there would be more students doing part time work or no work at all to get by with thier full time studies...dont know where you get that from...however with the university shakeups this may change where more students will have to turn to full time work to survive.(and keep on top of rising PT costs)

MJ is part of the 'giving it a go' group...good on him :-t
However before it goes to your head michael...remember that not everyone has your level of motivation...surely you realise this?


Offline MichaelJ

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Yeah, I do.

I think Work for The Dole is probably one of the best schemes for young Australians because it gives them the opportunity to develop transferable skills. Once you've got those transferable skills it makes you more saleable.

I've always looked at myself as a product/service and work to improve my offering so that employers want me. We are all products of our own hard work and should sell ourselves as such, IMHO.

That said, I think the current/new setup for students to get discount public transport in QLD is nothing short of pathetic. Go back to the old system with a few tweaks.
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Offline Gazza

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.however with the university shakeups this may change where more students will have to turn to full time work to survive.(and keep on top of rising PT costs)
I don't really see why you'd have to change your working habits as a student if the fees are shaken up. You just chuck all your fees on HECS anyway and will continue to do that.
(That said, I think raising fees is bad since students will eventually have to pay more for the same thing when in reality it should be free IMO)

Offline #Metro

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I think Work for The Dole is probably one of the best schemes for young Australians because it gives them the opportunity to develop transferable skills. Once you've got those transferable skills it makes you more saleable.

At around $6.60 per hour, I disagree. This is for two reasons, first you cannot survive on that level of income, and secondly there is an interaction with the minimum wage laws that automatically bans any job paying more than $6.60 per hour (Centrelink) but less than $16.37 per hour (Minimum wage).

This means that jobs paying better than Centrelink (often entry level) are banned and removed from the jobs market by the government, leaving the government as the only employer in that space. And when you have a monopoly on something, there is very few protections as there isn't anywhere else to go. If it is "wrong" for an employer to pay $16.36 to anyone for work, then it logically follows that it is also wrong for anyone else (including the government) to pay anything less as well for work.

This is a contributing reason why entry level jobs are scarce and employers require lots of experience, particularly so for people 15-25. If you have to pay two people with different abilities/experience the same price, then you're going to go for the person with more experience rather than take a risk on the newbie.
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Offline Gazza

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If people are really strapped for cash though, why bother with work for the dole? Put in an application at Maccas or Woolies and work that sh%t.

Offline longboi

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no nikko full time study and full time emplyment is not standard practice.....there would be more students doing part time work or no work at all to get by with thier full time studies...dont know where you get that from...however with the university shakeups this may change where more students will have to turn to full time work to survive.(and keep on top of rising PT costs)

MJ is part of the 'giving it a go' group...good on him :-t
However before it goes to your head michael...remember that not everyone has your level of motivation...surely you realise this?

MJ never said he worked full time.

For the record I work full time and study a Bachelor's degree.

To make the above judgements you must have been super person. Please, do tell us about your similar experience.

I currently work a full-time role (40 hrs/wk minimum...I often have to work above this due to the nature of my work) and study for a Bachelor's degree at QUT.

Those in low and low-medium socioeconomic groups will be particularly disadvantaged by these measures. Homelessness is a real prospect for young people who do not have family who are available or financially able to support them.

Relocating for work sounds like a nice idea but in reality, it is costly to move and not easy to simply uproot your life just to earn a meager income.

Offline MichaelJ

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Nikko, I don't disagree with you. Young people who don't have the support may crumble and I was lucky enough to come from a good home. You must agree though that there needs to be more of an ice give for people to support themselves.

Moving cities is definitely not something that should be taken lightly. There's so many challenges that people just don't think of - making new friends, getting to know the area, finding a house, changing addresses.

I must say though that following a career and passion has made it with every moment of challenge.
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Offline longboi

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Nikko, I don't disagree with you. Young people who don't have the support may crumble and I was lucky enough to come from a good home. You must agree though that there needs to be more of an ice give for people to support themselves.

Moving cities is definitely not something that should be taken lightly. There's so many challenges that people just don't think of - making new friends, getting to know the area, finding a house, changing addresses.

I must say though that following a career and passion has made it with every moment of challenge.

Certainly. I think it's brave and quite frankly, smart for you to follow your passion fiercely.

The first point is really what I'm getting at. Those that come from a good home will be worse off but not in dire straits. The issue is that there is no recognition that others don't get those same life chances and will be penalised by cuts to welfare, through no fault of their own.

Welfare really is paltry and I have no idea how anybody could survive on that as their only means of income. I guess I just put myself in their shoes and do feel a great sense of empathy.

Offline dancingmongoose

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So. Unemployed need to apply for 40 jobs a month. Fair enough. But they aren't allowed to receive any income support, therefore will not be able to afford the obscene public transport fares, thus will fare evade, causing more revenue loss, forcing fares higher and in turn making it less affordable for more people, leading to even more fare evaders. Vicious cycle, and Joe Hockey is only digging himself deeper into a hole trying to just to justify his lunacy. WELCOME TO AUSTRALIA. Where the wildlife are all out to kill you, and somehow some of the animals have found themselves in a government position.

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Young job seekers forced to wait six months for unemployment benefits will be required to apply for 40 jobs a month, document their efforts to find work and meet regularly with an employment service provider, despite not receiving any payments.

But despite not receiving any money, job seekers will be required to meet the activity requirements for unemployment benefits throughout this period.
If they fail to do so, their waiting period will be extended by four weeks.

source: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/unemployed-youth-must-apply-for-40-jobs-a-month-20140612-39yq8.html

Offline newbris

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Did I hear it correctly that under 30's will have no income for six months, work for dole for 6 months, and then have no income for the subsequent 6 months as well ?

Online ozbob

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And no concession fares for the unemployed in Queensland ...   very sad situation ..

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Online ozbob

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Sent to all outlets:

13th June 2014

Unemployed ... SEQ: Fare evasion crisis on public transport in SEQ

Greetings,

How are unemployed in Queensland going to cope?  Denied concessions on public transport their only option will be to run the gauntlet of fare evasion?  Every other state and territory of Australia gives concession public transport to the unemployed.  Other jurisdictions can manage it, what is the problem in Queensland?  Incompetence or just cruelty?

Fares in south-east Queensland are amongst the worlds most expensive.  A vicious double whammy.

Crazy sad state.



Enjoy your day rorting the go card system ..

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
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RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org



Media release 1st June 2014 re-released 10th June 2014

SEQ: Fare evasion crisis on public transport in SEQ

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has said a failure to address the unaffordability and system weaknesses with the fare system for public transport in south-east Queensland has lead to a fare evasion crisis.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The April 2014 TransLink data confirms that fare unaffordability is at its worst levels ever."

"Observations by RAIL Back On Track Members around the network on all modes suggest that fare evasion is now out of control.  This is no great surprise with the high cost fares and failing fare system - two very different fare technologies that allow the system to remain wide open. Paper single tickets are now at obscene cost levels - $5.20 for a one zone paper adult ticket!"

"If you think that fare evasion does not occur on buses or ferries think again. Both Sydney and Melbourne fare evasion rates are highest on buses (2, 3, 4). We don't know what the exact situation is in south-east Queensland as data is not published as for other jurisdictions, but it would be naive in the extreme to think it is not much different. Sadly, bus drivers particularly are increasingly being subjected to fare-rage and other unacceptable behaviours. People threatening bus drivers should be sanctioned legally.  High cost fares that many cannot afford to pay does not help at all."

"Compounding the fare evasion crisis is the fact that Queensland is the only state or territory of Australia that does not extend concession public transport fares to the unemployed (5).  Regular commuters in employment are struggling to pay high cost fares in south-east Queensland, how on earth can the unemployed?  They have few options, and now are being forced into criminal behaviours. What a sad outcome for our society, this will be very costly in the longer term."

"What should happen now? Get rid of paper single tickets. Give go cards to the unemployed and grant them concession fares. Reset the base fare costs, increase the off peak discount.  Allow children to travel free with a fare paying adult on weekends and public holidays. Get rid of the free after 9 paid journeys in a week and re-introduce 50% fares after this cap.  This will stop the massive fare rorting and fare box leakage by cashed up 'suits' which further reinforces a ' fare-evasion  culture '."

"Commensurate with these fare system changes, fix the poor network design. Take over network planning from BCC and put in place a proper connected, frequent network that uses all modes optimally for all of south-east Queensland. The failure to support TransLink in 2013 with the proposed network changes is now costing our community on many levels."

References:

1. Fare evasion costs public transport users millions, Rail Back on Track says it’s time to scrap paper tickets
http://www.couriermail.com.au/questnews/south/fare-evasion-costs-public-transport-users-millions-rail-back-on-track-says-its-time-to-scrap-paper-tickets/story-fni9r1nj-1226927178393

2. Don't pay the ferryman? Actually, the moochers are on the buses
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/dont-pay-the-ferryman-actually-the-moochers-are-on-the-buses-20140530-399n3.html

3. Victorian Official Fare Evasion Series: October 2013
http://ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/NewFolder-2/Report-Victorian-Offical-Fare-Evasion-Series-October-2013-FINAL.PDF

4. Fare failure SEQ http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9539.msg139720#msg139720

5. Health care cards and concession fares around the nation http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=9124.0

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
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