Station Upgrades

[aldonius]

Isn't the plan to eventually shift the location of Strathpine?

Also, it'll need loads of platforms depending on how Trouts Rd pans out (islands for at least one of via-Stafford and via-Northgate local terminators, and then at least two more platforms for through services).

[verbatim9]

Isn't the plan to eventually shift the location of Strathpine?

Also, it'll need loads of platforms depending on how Trouts Rd pans out (islands for at least one of via-Stafford and via-Northgate local terminators, and then at least two more platforms for through services).

I think thats the long term goal. Would make  sense, moving or combining Strathpine with Bray Park? Apparently there is an application doing up the nearby Shopping Centre at Strathpine so don't know the long term goals of relocation of the station are still a priority?

[dancingmongoose]

Boondall - only raising the middle of the platform
Dakabin - only raising the middle of the platform
Morayfield - only raising the middle of the platform
Strathpine - only raising the middle of the platform

Numbskulls!  Most of these platforms are straight FFS!

Can we start making some more noise about this stupidity?

Just like Dinmore, Graceville, Newmarket... why do something right the first time when you can do a 1/4 baked job and wait for inflation to make it cost 20x as much 10 years down the track

[BrizCommuter]

Enoggera didn't even get any platform raising!

[tazzer9]

The raising the middle of the platform is an absolute joke.  Would barely cost anymore money or time to do the whole thing.  Even worse is QR try to pass off these platforms as fully raised and accessible.

[ozbob]

Going to work up something to have another crack at this. I will raise it yet again with the new Transport Minister too.

The whole disjointed approach to DDA compliance etc. is just another sign of the basket case that is the organisation, management and delivery of public transport and associated infrastructure etc. in this state sadly.

[ozbob]

Compliance deadline is Dec, 2022.

A quick analysis of the Queensland Station Acess Guide

https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide

Total stations 156

Independent access

87 stations which is 55.8%

Assisted access

45 stations which is 28.8%

Limited access

24 stations which 15.4%

==================

A long way to go to get full station compliance ...   

[not_available]

↑ ↑
Does that include full-height platforms? (preferably fully raised)

[InclusionMoves]

Yep your figures are spot on OzBob.

Other issue with those figures though are they are more marketing terms than actual quantitative accounts of compliance. Assisted access for example does not exist in any legislation. So they say assisted access I say non compliant.

Then the biggie is that with our problems of staffing numbers and cost in terms of guards and station staff the issue of what independent access actually means comes into play. It is disingenuous to use independent as a word when you can have a low platform at a station and it still be called independent access, meaning you NEED direct assistance with a ramp from staff.   

Geoff 

Compliance deadline is Dec, 2022.

A quick analysis of the Queensland Station Acess Guide

https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide

Total stations 156

Independent access

87 stations which is 55.8%

Assisted access

45 stations which is 28.8%

Limited access

24 stations which 15.4%

[InclusionMoves]

See my comment below you beat me to the punch not_availible

↑ ↑
Does that include full-height platforms? (preferably fully raised)

[ozbob]

↑ ↑
Does that include full-height platforms? (preferably fully raised)

Of the 156 stations 35 have full height platforms = 22.4%

A further 5 are " coming soon " ( so is a proper timetable ..  )

A further 8 stations have some platforms full height but other platforms not:

Altandi
Banoon
Bowen Hills
Central
Fruitgrove
Kuraby
Roma St
Runcorn

South Bank will have platform one full height soon.

[InclusionMoves]

You beat me OzBob my quick count (pre coffee so give me some slack) was out of the "independent access" stations 47 had at least some low platforms,

Geoff

[ozbob]

Thanks IM.  I wanted to be sure before we start belting this.

Only ~56% of the stations are compliant.

(FYI: A recent article in Sydney said that of their stations there 54% are compliant).

Yep your figures are spot on OzBob.

Other issue with those figures though are they are more marketing terms than actual quantitative accounts of compliance. Assisted access for example does not exist in any legislation. So they say assisted access I say non compliant.

Then the biggie is that with our problems of staffing numbers and cost in terms of guards and station staff the issue of what independent access actually means comes into play. It is disingenuous to use independent as a word when you can have a low platform at a station and it still be called independent access, meaning you NEED direct assistance with a ramp from staff.   

Geoff 

Compliance deadline is Dec, 2022.

A quick analysis of the Queensland Station Acess Guide

https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide

Total stations 156

Independent access

87 stations which is 55.8%

Assisted access

45 stations which is 28.8%

Limited access

24 stations which 15.4%

[InclusionMoves]

Government will argue that direct assistance is a valid tool to aid compliance. I don't disagree with them but they need to honest about it. Plus has huge ramification in our NGR context and the push for DOO,

Geoff

Thanks IM.  I wanted to be sure before we start belting this.

Only ~56% of the stations are compliant.

(FYI: A recent article in Sydney said that of their stations there 54% are compliant).

Yep your figures are spot on OzBob.

Other issue with those figures though are they are more marketing terms than actual quantitative accounts of compliance. Assisted access for example does not exist in any legislation. So they say assisted access I say non compliant.

Then the biggie is that with our problems of staffing numbers and cost in terms of guards and station staff the issue of what independent access actually means comes into play. It is disingenuous to use independent as a word when you can have a low platform at a station and it still be called independent access, meaning you NEED direct assistance with a ramp from staff.   

Geoff 

Compliance deadline is Dec, 2022.

A quick analysis of the Queensland Station Acess Guide

https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide

Total stations 156

Independent access

87 stations which is 55.8%

Assisted access

45 stations which is 28.8%

Limited access

24 stations which 15.4%

[techblitz]

with the current state of QR,government funding that seems to prioritise park and rides over station access as well as uncertainty for Moorooka,rocklea,salisbury due to the acacia ridge/beaudesert corridor...safe to say there is a slim chance at best of them meeting that 2022 target....

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/958151973492031488

[verbatim9]

Graceville station is a whole lot better. I have used it a couple of times since the refurbishment.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

8th February 2018

Railway station non DDA compliance SEQ rail network

Greetings,

For your information.  A quick snapshot.  We have a major problem looming as these stations are meant to be fully compliant by December 2022.  Additionally we don't accept the category ' Assisted access ' is really compliant.

A quick analysis of the Queensland Rail Station Access Guide

https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide

Total stations 156

Independent access

87 stations which is 55.8%

Assisted access

45 stations which is 28.8%

Limited access

24 stations which 15.4%

Compliance deadline is Dec, 2022.

Of the 156 stations 35 have full height full length platforms = 22.4%

A further 5 are " coming soon " ( so is a proper timetable ..  )

A further 8 stations have some platforms full height but other platforms not:

Altandi
Banoon
Bowen Hills
Central
Fruitgrove
Kuraby
Roma St
Runcorn

South Bank will have platform one full height soon.

Disturbing to say the least.

Best wishes,

Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/961283564829532160

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/961283795130335232

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/961424734092124160

[#Metro]

Hmm... can't really see all the non-compliant stations becoming compliant in 5 years.

It would really need a "one big push" sort of program, like in Melbourne with level crossing removal.

Possibly a single-task authority would deliver that, also like in Melbourne.

Station rebuilding is a great opportunity to straighten and raise platforms - I don't really agree with just a bump in the middle or the side.

It looks like another AHRC extension will be in the works in this area??

[InclusionMoves]

There is an exemption for only loading PAX with disability through a reduced number of doors which is how they get away with the humps. However that doesn't mean it makes sense and it doesn't mean they shouldn't be showing they are trying to improve as with all temporary exemptions,

Geoff

Hmm... can't really see all the non-compliant stations becoming compliant in 5 years.

It would really need a "one big push" sort of program, like in Melbourne with level crossing removal.

Possibly a single-task authority would deliver that, also like in Melbourne.

Station rebuilding is a great opportunity to straighten and raise platforms - I don't really agree with just a bump in the middle or the side.

It looks like another AHRC extension will be in the works in this area??

[SurfRail]

Banoon doesn't have any high platforms as far as I'm aware, it shouldn't be on that list - it's in the same position as Sunnybank with 3 non-raised.

Fruitgrove and Runcorn are not really problematic because trains never stop at the low platforms.  Altandi was in the same boat before Gold Coast trains started stopping there.

[ozbob]

According to the QR Access Guide http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide
Banoon high platforms 2 & 3.

[ozbob]

Hmm... can't really see all the non-compliant stations becoming compliant in 5 years.

It would really need a "one big push" sort of program, like in Melbourne with level crossing removal.

Possibly a single-task authority would deliver that, also like in Melbourne.

Station rebuilding is a great opportunity to straighten and raise platforms - I don't really agree with just a bump in the middle or the side.

It looks like another AHRC extension will be in the works in this area??

I have put this concept recently to Queensland Rail and Government.

When doing station DDA upgrades ( eg. unlike Graceville and Dinmore of recent times ).  Close the stations during the upgrade.  This allows for a much shorter completion timeline as no passengers in the way.  Shuttle buses operate to the adjacent up and down stations.
If you recall, they did the upgrade of South Brisbane in this fashion. It took 6 weeks.  Far more efficient than the recent efforts at Dinmore and Graceville taking 18 months - 18 months of 24/7 security and inefficient project management. Wast of monies. 

I have suggested that if they did the upgrades like they did South Brisbane the money would allow more upgrades and more full length full height platforms. 

They might be a much better position by December 2022 if they snapped out of the slumber.

[SurfRail]

According to the QR Access Guide http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide
Banoon high platforms 2 & 3.

They definitely aren't, unless they are using a strange definition of "high".  That should be pointed out to them.

[InclusionMoves]

Checking into this now Surfrail, not beyond the realms of possibility it is a stuff up so you may have picked up something,

Geoff

According to the QR Access Guide http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide
Banoon high platforms 2 & 3.

They definitely aren't, unless they are using a strange definition of "high".  That should be pointed out to them.

[ozbob]

One wonders if there are other inaccuracies with the QR Station Access Guide ...   

[SurfRail]

I've just had a quick squizz. 

Incorrect
- Banoon - confident all 3 platforms are low level
- Milton - only platform 1 is high level (rebuilt in connection with the adjacent resi tower)
- Sunnybank - as per Banoon
- Wulkuraka - has been upgraded (for "full" 3-car length IIRC)

Stations where "high" means "less than full length" (based solely on my recollection - I could be off in places)
- Alderley (middle hump)
- Bethania (middle hump)
- Dinmore (middle hump)
- Fortitude Valley (middle hump)
- Graceville (middle hump)
- Grovely (half-length)
- Nambour (middle hump for the through platform, can't remember what is in place for the dock platform)
- Newmarket (middle hump)
- Petrie (middle hump for P1-3, fully high level for P4/5)
- Roma Street (half-length P4-9, other platforms low level)

Middle raising only is proposed for (as I understand it):
- Auchenflower
- Boondall
- Morayfield
- South Bank P1 (and nothing for P2/3)
- Strathpine

Others
- Kuraby - I thought all 3 platforms were full height here, but I might be off. 
- Lota - is indicated as being raised but I haven't been out there recently enough to know for myself, guessing it might only be a hump as well (assuming it isn't just another mistake).

The proliferation of middle-only humps needs to either be stopped, or limited to installations which do not preclude full raising at a later date.  It was a mistake when it happened the first time around.

[mufreight]

Milton platform 2 it is impossible to either access the train or detrain as the location of the first doorway of the fourth carriage lines up with the steps and there is only about a foot between the end of the ramp and the wall of the steps, Auchenflower platform 1 the ramp when in place has only about 15 inches from the end of the ramp and the seat in the waiting shelter.

[InclusionMoves]

Surfrail absolutely please don't take this as me saying you are wrong. Just doing the typical journo thing of multiple sources. I am most interested in Sunnybank and Banoon as they seem to be examples where it is wrong and the customer would be at a disadvantage. Can anyone else confirm these 2 locations are low platform?

Understand the humps in the middle are a problem but there are grey areas and exemption technicalities there so leaving them for another day. As with Mufreights issues which I will come back to as well.

Significance is that IF the station access guide is wrong then it means QR MAY have provided false evidence to AHRC,

Geoff   

I've just had a quick squizz. 

Incorrect
- Banoon - confident all 3 platforms are low level
- Milton - only platform 1 is high level (rebuilt in connection with the adjacent resi tower)
- Sunnybank - as per Banoon
- Wulkuraka - has been upgraded (for "full" 3-car length IIRC)

Stations where "high" means "less than full length" (based solely on my recollection - I could be off in places)
- Alderley (middle hump)
- Bethania (middle hump)
- Dinmore (middle hump)
- Fortitude Valley (middle hump)
- Graceville (middle hump)
- Grovely (half-length)
- Nambour (middle hump for the through platform, can't remember what is in place for the dock platform)
- Newmarket (middle hump)
- Petrie (middle hump for P1-3, fully high level for P4/5)
- Roma Street (half-length P4-9, other platforms low level)

Middle raising only is proposed for (as I understand it):
- Auchenflower
- Boondall
- Morayfield
- South Bank P1 (and nothing for P2/3)
- Strathpine

Others
- Kuraby - I thought all 3 platforms were full height here, but I might be off. 
- Lota - is indicated as being raised but I haven't been out there recently enough to know for myself, guessing it might only be a hump as well (assuming it isn't just another mistake).

The proliferation of middle-only humps needs to either be stopped, or limited to installations which do not preclude full raising at a later date.  It was a mistake when it happened the first time around.

[ozbob]

IM has just now picked up a change to http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide

Wulkuraka has been changed from not being high level to high level.

So updated:

https://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide

Total stations 156

Independent access

88 stations which is 56.4%

Assisted access

44 stations which is 28.2%

Limited access

24 stations which 15.4%

Compliance deadline is Dec, 2022.

Of the 156 stations 36 have full height full length platforms = 23.1%

A further 5 are " coming soon " ( so is a proper timetable ..  )

A further 8 stations have some platforms full height but other platforms not:

Altandi
Banoon
Bowen Hills
Central
Fruitgrove
Kuraby
Roma St
Runcorn

South Bank will have platform one full height soon.

[ozbob]

 

[ozbob]

[InclusionMoves]

SurfRail,

You are right about Banoon mate. Deciding how to deal with it as it was I believe an honest mistake and has been wrong for some time.

Geoff 

I've just had a quick squizz. 

Incorrect
- Banoon - confident all 3 platforms are low level
- Milton - only platform 1 is high level (rebuilt in connection with the adjacent resi tower)
- Sunnybank - as per Banoon
- Wulkuraka - has been upgraded (for "full" 3-car length IIRC)

Stations where "high" means "less than full length" (based solely on my recollection - I could be off in places)
- Alderley (middle hump)
- Bethania (middle hump)
- Dinmore (middle hump)
- Fortitude Valley (middle hump)
- Graceville (middle hump)
- Grovely (half-length)
- Nambour (middle hump for the through platform, can't remember what is in place for the dock platform)
- Newmarket (middle hump)
- Petrie (middle hump for P1-3, fully high level for P4/5)
- Roma Street (half-length P4-9, other platforms low level)

Middle raising only is proposed for (as I understand it):
- Auchenflower
- Boondall
- Morayfield
- South Bank P1 (and nothing for P2/3)
- Strathpine

Others
- Kuraby - I thought all 3 platforms were full height here, but I might be off. 
- Lota - is indicated as being raised but I haven't been out there recently enough to know for myself, guessing it might only be a hump as well (assuming it isn't just another mistake).

The proliferation of middle-only humps needs to either be stopped, or limited to installations which do not preclude full raising at a later date.  It was a mistake when it happened the first time around.

[ozbob]

Fortunately I made a hard copy of the QR Station Access Guide when I first did the arithmetic so I will be able to track ' corrections '.

Circus!

[SurfRail]

What's utterly obscene is that platforms that are relatively straight or are convex are getting humps.  There should be no trouble raising the full thing in a technical sense.  Better to get it right, especially at stations in the inner city area.  I hope upon hope that South Bank 1 is getting the full treatment, although I'm struggling with how given the curvature and lack of willingness they have shown to ever fix this anywhere.

[STB]

I've just had a quick squizz. 

Incorrect
- Banoon - confident all 3 platforms are low level
- Milton - only platform 1 is high level (rebuilt in connection with the adjacent resi tower)
- Sunnybank - as per Banoon
- Wulkuraka - has been upgraded (for "full" 3-car length IIRC)

Stations where "high" means "less than full length" (based solely on my recollection - I could be off in places)
- Alderley (middle hump)
- Bethania (middle hump)
- Dinmore (middle hump)
- Fortitude Valley (middle hump)
- Graceville (middle hump)
- Grovely (half-length)
- Nambour (middle hump for the through platform, can't remember what is in place for the dock platform)
- Newmarket (middle hump)
- Petrie (middle hump for P1-3, fully high level for P4/5)
- Roma Street (half-length P4-9, other platforms low level)

Middle raising only is proposed for (as I understand it):
- Auchenflower
- Boondall
- Morayfield
- South Bank P1 (and nothing for P2/3)
- Strathpine

Others
- Kuraby - I thought all 3 platforms were full height here, but I might be off. 
- Lota - is indicated as being raised but I haven't been out there recently enough to know for myself, guessing it might only be a hump as well (assuming it isn't just another mistake).

The proliferation of middle-only humps needs to either be stopped, or limited to installations which do not preclude full raising at a later date.  It was a mistake when it happened the first time around.

Lota is fully raised, lived in the area for 25 years and has been at step level to the train for decades.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

9th February 2018

Queensland Rail Station Access Guide has errors of fact

Good Morning,

As we have started examining the Queensland Rail Station Access Guide ( http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide ) more closely of late we have discovered there are errors with it.

For example, Wulkuraka is now high level platforms, this was upgraded to reflect that yesterday on the guide.

Additionally some more errors have been spotted by members.  For example Banoon does not have high level platforms.  The guide presently indicates platforms 2 and 3 are raised.   Some of these errors have been there a long time.

We call for a full audit of all the railway stations in SEQ and that the Queensland Rail Station Access Guide actually be a true reflection of the situation with compliance.  Additionally in view of the errors we suspect that some of the information supplied to the Australian Human Rights Commission with respect to the temporary application for operating non DDA compliant NGRs may have been incorrect.

Once the guide is correct we will supply an updated snapshot for your convenience.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ Attached: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10688.msg204528#msg204528 ]

[ozbob]

https://twitter.com/Robert_Dow/status/961639258183249920

[InclusionMoves]

Understand it is a long standing human error. Am loathe to shoot anyone for that. But does show the perilous state transport is in re access compliance. Without true compliance, human procedures & systems prone to failure exist. True design innovation is only way forward.

Teams that know what they are doing are constantly ignored & under resourced by those above them. Disability again is just not being treated seriously within transport culture. Sometimes its PWD that suffer. Sometimes its taxpayers with cost overruns. Time that culture turned around. Reset button needs to be pushed in relationship with disability sector.

Geoff

Sent to all outlets:

9th February 2018

Queensland Rail Station Access Guide has errors of fact

Good Morning,

As we have started examining the Queensland Rail Station Access Guide ( http://www.queenslandrail.com.au/forcustomers/access/station-access-guide ) more closely of late we have discovered there are errors with it.

For example, Wulkuraka is now high level platforms, this was upgraded to reflect that yesterday on the guide.

Additionally some more errors have been spotted by members.  For example Banoon does not have high level platforms.  The guide presently indicates platforms 2 and 3 are raised.   Some of these errors have been there a long time.

We call for a full audit of all the railway stations in SEQ and that the Queensland Rail Station Access Guide actually be a true reflection of the situation with compliance.  Additionally in view of the errors we suspect that some of the information supplied to the Australian Human Rights Commission with respect to the temporary application for operating non DDA compliant NGRs may have been incorrect.

Once the guide is correct we will supply an updated snapshot for your convenience.

Best wishes,
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track https://backontrack.org

[ Attached: https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=10688.msg204528#msg204528 ]