Station Upgrades

[petey3801]

What happened to "zero harm"?

Now that it has been established that QR knows that there is a problem, if someone falls through the gap or injures themselves, it will be a lawyers picnic, and the costs of that will fall on govt.

It's not quite that dramatic. The barriers are generally set up along the yellow line, so if someone opened that door and got out, they would just walk along the white coping stones until after the barriers, so the train would need to wait for them to do that. Certainly not ideal, but definitely not life/injury threatening.

[BrizCommuter]

What happened to "zero harm"?

Now that it has been established that QR knows that there is a problem, if someone falls through the gap or injures themselves, it will be a lawyers picnic, and the costs of that will fall on govt.

It's not quite that dramatic. The barriers are generally set up along the yellow line, so if someone opened that door and got out, they would just walk along the white coping stones until after the barriers, so the train would need to wait for them to do that. Certainly not ideal, but definitely not life/injury threatening.

I've tried to take a close up photo of the situation at Alderley, but was thwarted by anti-photo worksite thugs. It is not safe for passengers to walk along the coping stones - the barriers are very close to the platform edge.

[#Metro]

Queensland Rail is a very naughty organisation it seems.

[petey3801]

What happened to "zero harm"?

Now that it has been established that QR knows that there is a problem, if someone falls through the gap or injures themselves, it will be a lawyers picnic, and the costs of that will fall on govt.

It's not quite that dramatic. The barriers are generally set up along the yellow line, so if someone opened that door and got out, they would just walk along the white coping stones until after the barriers, so the train would need to wait for them to do that. Certainly not ideal, but definitely not life/injury threatening.

I've tried to take a close up photo of the situation at Alderley, but was thwarted by anti-photo worksite thugs. It is not safe for passengers to walk along the coping stones - the barriers are very close to the platform edge.

As I said, not ideal but certainly not injury/life threatening and when the train is stopped at the platform, if someone gets out the door that is supposed to be locked, it isn't the end of the world.

[BrizCommuter]

What happened to "zero harm"?

Now that it has been established that QR knows that there is a problem, if someone falls through the gap or injures themselves, it will be a lawyers picnic, and the costs of that will fall on govt.

It's not quite that dramatic. The barriers are generally set up along the yellow line, so if someone opened that door and got out, they would just walk along the white coping stones until after the barriers, so the train would need to wait for them to do that. Certainly not ideal, but definitely not life/injury threatening.

I've tried to take a close up photo of the situation at Alderley, but was thwarted by anti-photo worksite thugs. It is not safe for passengers to walk along the coping stones - the barriers are very close to the platform edge.

As I said, not ideal but certainly not injury/life threatening and when the train is stopped at the platform, if someone gets out the door that is supposed to be locked, it isn't the end of the world.

Well the situation is causing confusion, distress, and even passengers missing their stop. So it is not acceptable.
I wouldn't have blogged about it if it was a non-issue.

[petey3801]

What happened to "zero harm"?

Now that it has been established that QR knows that there is a problem, if someone falls through the gap or injures themselves, it will be a lawyers picnic, and the costs of that will fall on govt.

It's not quite that dramatic. The barriers are generally set up along the yellow line, so if someone opened that door and got out, they would just walk along the white coping stones until after the barriers, so the train would need to wait for them to do that. Certainly not ideal, but definitely not life/injury threatening.

I've tried to take a close up photo of the situation at Alderley, but was thwarted by anti-photo worksite thugs. It is not safe for passengers to walk along the coping stones - the barriers are very close to the platform edge.

As I said, not ideal but certainly not injury/life threatening and when the train is stopped at the platform, if someone gets out the door that is supposed to be locked, it isn't the end of the world.

Well the situation is causing confusion, distress, and even passengers missing their stop. So it is not acceptable.
I wouldn't have blogged about it if it was a non-issue.

Please, show me where I said it was acceptable? All I said was it is not the end of the world, not that it shouldn't be done nor that it is acceptable that it isn't done. FFS.

[ozbob]

Heading up to Nambour tomorrow to catch up with some Sunshine Coast based RBoT members.

Be an opportunity to check out the Nambour station upgrade. Travelling on the 8.33am ex Roma St.

[SurfRail]

What happened to "zero harm"?

Now that it has been established that QR knows that there is a problem, if someone falls through the gap or injures themselves, it will be a lawyers picnic, and the costs of that will fall on govt.

It's not quite that dramatic. The barriers are generally set up along the yellow line, so if someone opened that door and got out, they would just walk along the white coping stones until after the barriers, so the train would need to wait for them to do that. Certainly not ideal, but definitely not life/injury threatening.

I've tried to take a close up photo of the situation at Alderley, but was thwarted by anti-photo worksite thugs. It is not safe for passengers to walk along the coping stones - the barriers are very close to the platform edge.

As I said, not ideal but certainly not injury/life threatening and when the train is stopped at the platform, if someone gets out the door that is supposed to be locked, it isn't the end of the world.

Well the situation is causing confusion, distress, and even passengers missing their stop. So it is not acceptable.
I wouldn't have blogged about it if it was a non-issue.

Please, show me where I said it was acceptable? All I said was it is not the end of the world, not that it shouldn't be done nor that it is acceptable that it isn't done. FFS.

Really it's just symptomatic of the culture at large, which is that nobody gives a sh%t about doing things right.

[ozbob]

Nambour 4th February 2017

Progress is being made.  The suburban trains are using the new increased length bay platform.

Temporary toilets, main platform is closed about half down.































Photographs R Dow 4th February 2017

[ozbob]

Couriermail Quest --> Queensland Rail has defended the lack of ramp or lift facilities at southern Brisbane stations

QUEENSLAND Rail's solution to people in wheelchairs, those with injury and parents with prams wanting to use some stations is to travel to another one that has ramps and lifts.

Train travellers along the Beenleigh Line have called on Queensland Rail to upgrade multiple stations that don't cater for disabled passengers, parents with prams or cyclists.

Their pleas follow last week's story in the Southern Star that revealed Salisbury, Rocklea and Moorooka stations don't have ramp or lift access to the platforms.

But their requests have fallen on deaf ears.

Disabled passengers, parents and carers voiced their frustration via social media with many calling on Queensland Rail to upgrade the stations to meet safety standards.

However, a spokesman for Queensland Rail advised disabled passengers to travel to the nearest station that has suitable access.

"Most stations on our network were built decades ago, which is why there is a program to prioritise upgrades across our network and ensure customers with disabilities and parents with prams can use them freely," the spokesman said.

"As Rocklea, Moorooka and Salisbury stations have limited access; Queensland Rail encourages customers with access requirements to use nearby Coopers Plains station, which is independently accessible with lifts, high level platforms, accessible parking, a hearing aid loop and an accessible toilet.

"Yeerongpilly station is also nearby and has independent access.

Last week Clare Alexander said she no longer caught the train from Salisbury station because it did not have pram access.

Southern Star Facebook follower Annette Hardy was one of many who expressed frustration at the lack of ramp or lift facilities at stations.

She questioned why all buses and trains in the Brisbane City Council area were not accessible for everyone?

"They should be. We are living in 2017,'' she said.

The state of platform access through the southside:

Fairfield — not accessible

Yeronga — not accessible

Yeerongpilly — accessible

Moorooka — not accessible

Rocklea — not accessible

Salisbury — not accessible

Coopers Plains — accessible

[SABB]

We might be living in 2017. However, most of the railway stations in Brisbane were built in the late 1800s. At that time elements such as track alignment and property boundaries were sort of set in stone. When electrification came in the 1970s, these were then set in concrete.  Then along came the Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) which set into Law standards which were difficult, if not impossible, to comply with. While there was railway representation  during the drafting of the DDA which managed to tone down some of these requirements, the railway representatives missed the all important one of "retrospectivity". The DDA gives facility owners 25 years to become fully compliant on the basis that buildings are usually gutted and rebuilt/refurbished within this timeframe. How often are railway stations rebuilt ?  The biggest problem is existing station geometry. If you have to allow for two wheelchairs to pass while still staying behind the yellow line, the platform cope has to be something like 3.6m from the outside walls of the station building (after you take away the seating as well). For an island platform, the minimum width is something like 10m if you place a lift in the centre of the platform. Most QR stations are too narrow for this without realigning the tracks which then needs new property resumptions and new overhead electrification changes. In summary, this issue is more than just providing lifts, ramps and stairs. Generally, if you renew a facility, you have to make it fully compliant.  In the late 1990s, Paul Lucas asked QR for a ball park cost of becoming full DDA compliant. I understand that numbers like $6 Billion were handed over. So ,what does Brisbane need more, DDA compliance or CRR.

On another note, DDA compliance has had other effects. At one stage I believe that QBuild issued a directive that any new toilet facilities had to be disabled toilets which are rather large.  A government dept was building a workshop (in a restricted lot) where communications equipment was fitted to road vehicles. The only staff working there were the guys that installed the equipment, no admin staff.  The architects were told that any toilet had to be a disabled toilet. There was enough room for a normal toilet but not enough for a disabled toilet. Anyone working there had to crawl under vehicles and under the dash so it was unlikely that any disabled person would ever be on staff. The architects asked for special dispensation and were refused. The outcome was that no toilet was included in the building.

[SurfRail]

We need a moratorium on station upgrades unless they are being done in a way that enables level boarding all along the platform - and if that involves closures or realignments/rebuilding, so be it.  We can't have a situation where we are permanently stuck with guards because of past mistakes.

Stations like Goodna for instance - it would probably be easier to flatten the whole thing and start again so there are no compromises with lift shafts, curves etc.

[ozbob]

Yes, Goodna station  is a good example of what not to do in essence.  It is part historical the issues, and then a forced fit of lifts etc. with out really considering the entire station.  As usual, everything done on the cheap without much thought for the longer term.



Track layout at Goodna c. 1980.  When they added the lifts they just extended the platform towards Ippy (Up) and squeezed it in between the mains.



Photograph from 2013 ( https://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=3877.msg117667#msg117667 )

[#Metro]

We need a moratorium on station upgrades unless they are being done in a way that enables level boarding all along the platform - and if that involves closures or realignments/rebuilding, so be it.  We can't have a situation where we are permanently stuck with guards because of past mistakes.

Stations like Goodna for instance - it would probably be easier to flatten the whole thing and start again so there are no compromises with lift shafts, curves etc.

I second this. It is a good argument. We should not lock ourselves into the steam era designs long after such trains are removed from the network.

There will of course be some stations that cannot meet the conditions stipulated because it may be physically impossible to do so - a station located on a sharp bend, for example. There will have to be a discussion about whether such a station should stay open in such case.

All new stations should be DOO compliant.

[Gazza]

So with Goodna, why wasn't the lift just built about 10m closer to Brisbane at the wide part of the platform  :conf

[SABB]

High level platforms might not be compatible with the clearances required for those lines that also carry freight.

[SurfRail]

High level platforms might not be compatible with the clearances required for those lines that also carry freight.

That is only an issue with curvature, in which case you need to minimise or eliminate platform curvature instead of being stuck with an old alignment forever. 

We change roads all the time, why do we virtually never realign even our busiest railways?  Very few stations on the network have any kind of heritage importance which can't be managed by relocation or removal.

[tazzer9]

As above, I believe apart from a select few stations, most stations in qld have absolutely no importance, and most look crap.
Bulldoze them and start from scratch.   

[ozbob]

So with Goodna, why wasn't the lift just built about 10m closer to Brisbane at the wide part of the platform  :conf

Good question.  I think it might have been related to the position of the old footbridge across Ipswich Highway (before the widening and the new bridge).  It was probably positioned for  straight access to that bridge.  There now is a dog leg to the new footbridge, but years ago would have seemed sensible. 

[ozbob]

It was lovely to meet Sue at Park Rd station to announce $6m for minor upgrades to 10 stations #fixingthetrains #qldpol pic.twitter.com/BwbvLgDlRD

— Jackie Trad (@jackietrad) May 21, 2017

#fixingthetrains   

[ozbob]

Brisbanetimes --> Queen Street bus station to get $3 million makeover following flooding incident

Edited for rail station upgrade comments:

....

Meanwhile, Ms Trad has marked 100 days since being sworn in as Transport Minister.

Ms Trad said there was some very strong progress on the Fixing the Trains agenda, and she announced $6 million for upgrades to Park Road, Bowen Hills, Wacol, Goodna, Manly, Murrarie, Windsor, Wilston and Beenleigh stations, and a mural at Roma Street station.

The improvements will include landscaping, evening out footpaths, making sure pedestrian crossings are clearly marked and repainting.

Ms Trad said there were 19 more drivers on the system since October and more people in driver training schools.

"I've really enjoyed the last 100 days, it has been challenging, but it is a job the Premier gave me to do and one that I'm very pleased to be doing on behalf of the government," she said.

As part of the first 100 days plan, bins have also been installed at six inner-city stations.

The bins were removed before the G20 in Brisbane in 2014.

[#Metro]

Ms Trad said there was some very strong progress on the Fixing the Trains agenda, and she announced $6 million for upgrades to Park Road, Bowen Hills, Wacol, Goodna, Manly, Murrarie, Windsor, Wilston and Beenleigh stations, and a mural at Roma Street station.

Would really like to see platform heights raised and straightened.

[tazzer9]

Ms Trad said there was some very strong progress on the Fixing the Trains agenda, and she announced $6 million for upgrades to Park Road, Bowen Hills, Wacol, Goodna, Manly, Murrarie, Windsor, Wilston and Beenleigh stations, and a mural at Roma Street station.

Would really like to see platform heights raised and straightened.

Would like to see the WHOLE platform raised.  Doing 30m isn't good enough.

[Stillwater]

"Ms Trad said there was some very strong progress on the Fixing the Trains agenda."

It would be helpful if the 'very strong progress' was documented and put into a report issued publicly by the Citytrain Response Unit.  As promised! 

[verbatim9]

Noticed the other day but not sure how long it's been painted the new colours? Ormeau and Coomera stations have been repainted. All the metal are the new colour Translink scheme Dark Chocolate Brown. Plus new Translink Orange signage.

[SurfRail]

All Gold Coast stations are being refreshed before the Commonwealth Games.

[dancingmongoose]

Noticed the other day but not sure how long it's been painted the new colours? Ormeau and Coomera stations have been repainted. All the metal are the new colour Translink scheme Dark Chocolate Brown. Plus new Translink Orange signage.

Yeah, at Ormeau the signage on the platforms has changed from the old QR branding to TransLink, and the sides of the overpass have been changed from glass to that horrible steel mesh. Signage on the concourse haven't been changed yet but I'm sure that's not too far away. The ticket office and toilets have been gutted and temporary ones set up.

[ozbob]

ABC News --> Queensland Rail passengers 'frustrated' by failing lifts, poor disabled access at stations

A Queensland Rail passenger says she and others with disabilities are fed up with having to call before they travel to check they will be able to access train platforms.

There are some stations where passengers can only access the platforms using lifts, which commuters said were regularly broken and out of use.

Some passengers with disabilities said they had been told to call the station before arriving, but if they arrived to find the lifts did not work, they were forced to travel to another station.

The complaints came after a woman in a wheelchair was left stranded in a Brisbane rail yard last week after Queensland Rail guards forgot to help her disembark from a train.

Tracey Tanner said she too was left stranded after disembarking from a train earlier this year at Kallangur station and finding the lift out of order.

"It was very frustrating and extremely annoying," she said.

"Although they can't stop lifts from breaking down, there's protocols in place to stop us from being left there with no way out.

"Nobody told me before I hopped off the train."

She said she contacted an emergency number about the lift, but did not get a response.

"I was waiting there for half an hour," she said.

    "Eventually somebody noticed that I was stuck on the platform.

"And they said you'll just have to wait for the next train to go to another stop."

Ms Tanner said since the incident staff had told many passengers with disabilities to call before going to stations to check they would be able to board and disembark from the platforms.

She said she now factored in extra waiting time for when the lifts did not work.

"I'm actually leaving home well in advance, way more than anyone else would have to," she said.

Queensland Rail has been contacted for comment.

[verbatim9]

I noticed at Roma Street New lifts have been installed. Much faster than previous. Other stations require work and new faster transparent lifts.

[tazzer9]

Newmarket station upgraded platforms are now open.   The Temporary platforms are now fenced off, but still cause a bit of confusion.  This is a situation where guard announcements regarding which side of the train the platform is on is warranted.  Also of note is the station already has graffiti on the new lift. 

[Stillwater]

A problem outside Brisbane.  Sometimes, delays of four days before lifts are serviced and made operational.

[matlock]

Can they please hurry up and fix Yeronga station?

Yeronga always has strong patronage and yet has probably the most basic facilities for any station so close to the city, save for maybe Park Road. Not to mention the horrendous pedestrian bridge stretching across Fairfield Road, which IMO needs to be completely bulldozed and rebuilt from scratch.

[SurfRail]

^ Or Albion, or Wooloowin, or Buranda, or Bowen Hills... take your pick, they all stink.

The failure to properly upgrade South Bank during the Southpoint construction and the abysmal transfer arrangements from buses to trains is almost on an Eagle Junction or Indooroopilly level of failure while we're at it. 

[kram0]

Can they please hurry up and fix Yeronga station?

Yeronga always has strong patronage and yet has probably the most basic facilities for any station so close to the city, save for maybe Park Road. Not to mention the horrendous pedestrian bridge stretching across Fairfield Road, which IMO needs to be completely bulldozed and rebuilt from scratch.

I totally agree, it is long overdue for a major renovation.

[BrizCommuter]

Newmarket station upgraded platforms are now open.   The Temporary platforms are now fenced off, but still cause a bit of confusion.  This is a situation where guard announcements regarding which side of the train the platform is on is warranted.  Also of note is the station already has graffiti on the new lift.

Congratulations QR on finally completing the world's slowest station refurbishment!

[tazzer9]

Or Albion, or Wooloowin, or Buranda, or Bowen Hills... take your pick, they all stink.

Albion and woolowin survive since they have good frequency (except for sundays and late nights).  Albion platforms 1 and 2 are getting the new small LED TV PIDS.  Probably operational now but a while since i've been there.  They need to fix the ramp situation there.

[ozbob]

This is a cross post from #qldvotes2017 ALP Policies  but I think the comments from Mr Ward are useful in this thread too.

Queensland Times --> Labor's $17.6M upgrade promise for Ipswich station

A BUSY Ipswich train station will undergo a dramatic multi-million makeover, if Labor is re-elected.

Labor has promised a $17.6million upgrade at East Ipswich train station that would allow those with a disability to access the platform.

A steep ramp and a set of stairs is the only access for the station.

Incumbent Ipswich MP Jennifer Howard said the limited accessibility was an issue voters had raised frequently during her term as the state representative.

East Ipswich is one of six stations throughout the southeast that Labor has promised to upgrade in the lead up to election day.

Ipswich resident Allan Ward, who needs a mobility scooter to get around, said while he was pleased with the planned upgrade at East Ipswich station, there were others he considered more pressing.

Mr Ward can't even get off the train at Goodna or Auchenflower because there isn't enough room on the platform for him to dismount using ramps.

Mr Ward also believes Riverview train station should be a priority given many elderly people frequent the station.

To travel back towards Ipswich, commuters have to walk all the way around the station to reach the right platform.

"The platform level is too low at East Ipswich so it's good they will do something about it," Mr Ward said.

"But raising parts of the platform is just a furphy. With the amount it will cost them, they should just raise the whole lot."

Ms Howard said while the full scope of works and details were yet to be finalised, station upgrades typically included a new footbridge with lifts, raised platform sections providing assisted boarding points and a range of other accessibility features.

"(The upgrade) will mean all passengers are able to use the station without barriers including customers with disabilities, the elderly, parents with prams, people with injuries and even those simply carrying luggage."

All public transport must be brought up to minimum accessibility standards by 2022.

[not_available]

All public transport must be brought up to minimum accessibility standards by 2022.

Do the minimum accessibility standards mean full DDA compliance?
I don't think it's going to happen... excemptions?

[SurfRail]

Boondall - only raising the middle of the platform
Dakabin - only raising the middle of the platform
Morayfield - only raising the middle of the platform
Strathpine - only raising the middle of the platform

Numbskulls!  Most of these platforms are straight FFS!

Can we start making some more noise about this stupidity?

[ozbob]

Have raised it many times direct and will continue to do so. Logic and proper compliance is not a strong point with both QR and DTMR sadly.