Article: Go Card’s top-up limit needs increase, say commuters

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

Go Card's top-up limit needs increase, say commuters

Go Card's top-up limit needs increase, say commuters
Patrick Williams 12th Apr 2014 5:00 AM

A SUNSHINE Coast commuter advocate has called for TransLink to increase the limit on its Go Cards in line with rises in fare prices.

Palmwoods resident Jeff Addison tops up his Go Card, TransLink's electronic ticket, on average every three days.

He claimed that in January 2008, a weekly ticket return for Palmwoods to Brisbane cost $77.35.

Now, with a Go Card, the weekly cost is $133.65 covering nine paid trips and one free.

Yet despite the increase in fares, the maximum amount of money he can put on the card in one go has remained the same.

Increasing the threshold would mean he would not have to top up as often.

"The threshold hasn't changed but the fees have gone up," he said. "They need to increase it."

Mr Addison said he was advised by TransLink to register his Go Card to set up an auto top up, ensuring his account was topped up when it fell below $5.

"People don't like doing it for security or personal reasons. For me it increases security risk to my credit card. It should be about giving us options," he said.

He suggested the threshold should go up to $400.

A TransLink spokesman said the Go Card threshold was set at $250 as an appropriate balance between passenger convenience and financial risk should the card be lost or stolen.

"TransLink encourages passengers to register and add auto top-up to their Go Card so they don't have to worry about having enough cash on them to top up manually," he said.

"An adult passenger using a Go Card travelling from Brisbane CBD to Palmwoods during the peak period is paying $2.95 more in 2014 compared to 2008."

[ozbob]

... "An adult passenger using a Go Card travelling from Brisbane CBD to Palmwoods during the peak period is paying $2.95 more in 2014 compared to 2008."  ...

^  bullsh%t ...

[ozbob]

A truly customer focussed organisation would think along these lines ..

Ok some ' customers ' are having problems with the go card limits, particularly high journey commuters.  Maybe it is time we looked at the limits and had a review .. yes that is what a customer focussed organisation would do ..

In fact, I have been following this on twitter, they just obfuscate and pretend no issue ... but then again that is not new is it?

Clearly there are issues for some ..   about time TL got off their backsides and started to act in the best interests of the community, or walk ...

[aldonius]

TransLink have compared the cost of an 'adult go-card 16-zone' journey today with the cost of an 'adult paper single 16-zone' journey in April 2008 (2007-2008 fare period). These are $14.85 and $11.90 respectively, which yields the $2.95 increase as stated by TransLink.

However, given the long-term ticket options available to Jeff at the time, the $11.90 fare was not at all representative of Jeff's actual travel costs:

• Weeklies were 8x the single price for 1-10 zones travelled, 7.5x for 11, 7x for 12 and 6.5x thereafter.
• Monthlies followed the same pattern as weeklies - 32x for 1-10 zones travelled, 30 for 11, 28 for 12 and 26 for 13-23. This represents the cost of 4 weeklies.
• QR Citytrain offered 3, 6 & 12-month tickets (only valid on rail) at a very similar structure: a 12-month ticket for zones 1-10 was the cost of 320 equivalent singles, for zone 11 it was 300, for zone 12 280 and for zones 13-23 it was 260.
• Another way of looking at it: 3-months were 11x the weekly, 6-months were 21x the weekly, 12-months were 40x the weekly. Similarly, 3-months were 2.75x the monthly, 6-months were 5.25x the monthly, 12-months were 10x the monthly.

Factoring weekends (2 days in 7), public holidays (about 10 days) and annual leave (2 weeks in 52), the average train commuter makes about 480 journeys to work each year.

As Jeff commutes 16 zones, he was eligible for the maximum level of long term discount. At the price of a 12 month ticket ($3094) his per-trip cost (at 480 journeys/year) was just $6.45!

[ozbob]

The five year fare path has actually impacted a lot more when you consider the loss of the periodical tickets.

A paper 16 zone today is $21.60.  They don't mention that ...

TransLink is just becoming shambolic.  Maybe it is time they just finally disappeared into the desks at TMR.  They are nothing but a shell and a collection of desks at TMR  anyway.

[ozbob]

[Fares_Fair]

TransLink have compared the cost of an 'adult go-card 16-zone' journey today with the cost of an 'adult paper single 16-zone' journey in April 2008 (2007-2008 fare period). These are $14.85 and $11.90 respectively, which yields the $2.95 increase as stated by TransLink.

However, given the long-term ticket options available to Jeff at the time, the $11.90 fare was not at all representative of Jeff's actual travel costs:

• Weeklies were 8x the single price for 1-10 zones travelled, 7.5x for 11, 7x for 12 and 6.5x thereafter.
• Monthlies followed the same pattern as weeklies - 32x for 1-10 zones travelled, 30 for 11, 28 for 12 and 26 for 13-23. This represents the cost of 4 weeklies.
• QR Citytrain offered 3, 6 & 12-month tickets (only valid on rail) at a very similar structure: a 12-month ticket for zones 1-10 was the cost of 320 equivalent singles, for zone 11 it was 300, for zone 12 280 and for zones 13-23 it was 260.
• Another way of looking at it: 3-months were 11x the weekly, 6-months were 21x the weekly, 12-months were 40x the weekly. Similarly, 3-months were 2.75x the monthly, 6-months were 5.25x the monthly, 12-months were 10x the monthly.

Factoring weekends (2 days in 7), public holidays (about 10 days) and annual leave (2 weeks in 52), the average train commuter makes about 480 journeys to work each year.

As Jeff commutes 16 zones, he was eligible for the maximum level of long term discount. At the price of a 12 month ticket ($3094) his per-trip cost (at 480 journeys/year) was just $6.45!

Great work, thank you.
After my weekly ticket used in January 2008, I started using Monthly, then 6 and 12 month tickets.
As you say, these were much cheaper than the example I used in the story.
I wanted to be honest and fair by comparing apples with apples.
Pity that Translink didn't in the final para of the story.

[ozbob]

For interest ...

Victoria myki - max myki money permitted is $999.99

Victorian Fares & Ticketing Manual  on http://ptv.vic.gov.au/tickets/victorian-fares-and-ticketing-manual/

http://ptv.vic.gov.au/assets/PDFs/Vic-Fares-and-Ticketing-Manual/Fares-and-ticketing-manual-2014.pdf ... p 41

The theoretical maximum for myki pass is 365 x $11.80 = $4,307  p 51

[Fares_Fair]

I hope that good common sense will prevail over this issue.

[Derwan]

I don't see this as a big issue.  Just set and forget auto top-up.

[Fares_Fair]

I don't see this as a big issue.  Just set and forget auto top-up.

That's fine to have an opinion, but long-haul commuters tell me otherwise, they don't want to be coerced into giving their bank account or credit card details to TRANSLink/TMR.
It increases the security risk of their finances in a day and age of identity theft and on-line hacking.

They have every right to have that choice.
It's the difference between a free democracy and a dictatorship.

Besides reader replies say that it takes up to 2 days for the money to appear on the card.
$5 trigger is useless when fare is $14.85 or more!

If the $100 EFTPOS limit is correct and that appears to be the case at my station (despite what TRANSLink claimed in correspondence), I have to top up every 3 and a bit days.
These limits were confirmed by the station staff.
I have lodged a repair claim for the machine and I will check it tomorrow morning (that is, if the $100 limit was a machine 'malfunction')

[SurfRail]

$100 does seem to be the limit.  I tend to do 2 transactions or take cash out and feed it in.

I'd rather have control of what goes in and out of my bank account and when, given the expenses I now have.

[red dragin]

Why not use a reloadable gift card combined with auto top up?

Load the $250 to that once a week rather than load the go card 3 times a week.

[Derwan]

I don't see this as a big issue.  Just set and forget auto top-up.

That's fine to have an opinion, but long-haul commuters tell me otherwise, they don't want to be coerced into giving their bank account or credit card details to TRANSLink/TMR.
It increases the security risk of their finances in a day and age of identity theft and on-line hacking.

I guess they still want to line up at the bank, withdraw cash and go to the counter at the train station to top up their cards?

People have to get with the times.  They have to realise that credit cards offer far better protection than cash.  Someone steals your cash, it's gone! Someone commits credit card fraud, the transaction is reversed.  You don't lose anything!!  You have no risk!!

They have every right to have that choice.
It's the difference between a free democracy and a dictatorship.

I must pay my rent by direct debit.  Am I being denied my democratic rights?

Besides reader replies say that it takes up to 2 days for the money to appear on the card.

On which card?  Go Card or Credit Card?  It's instant on the Go Card.  Then it appears on the credit card transaction list within a couple of days - just like every other credit card transaction.

$5 trigger is useless when fare is $14.85 or more!

No they're not.  If your balance is $5.85 and you do a journey costing $14.85, your balance will be $-9.00 at the end of the journey.  The top-up will occur when you next touch on.

I can see the point about increasing the limits - but I just don't see it as such a big issue when there is an extremely easy and safe alternative!

[techblitz]

I don't see this as a big issue.  Just set and forget auto top-up.

That's fine to have an opinion, but long-haul commuters tell me otherwise, they don't want to be coerced into giving their bank account or credit card details to TRANSLink/TMR.
It increases the security risk of their finances in a day and age of identity theft and on-line hacking.

I guess they still want to line up at the bank, withdraw cash and go to the counter at the train station to top up their cards?

People have to get with the times.  They have to realise that credit cards offer far better protection than cash.  Someone steals your cash, it's gone! Someone commits credit card fraud, the transaction is reversed.  You don't lose anything!!  You have no risk!!

i thought online fraud was about more than just about money. Jeff has also mentioned identity theft here derwan.

speaking of:
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/digital-life/consumer-security/coles-mastercard-myer-visa-card-and-other-ge-money-partners-stung-by-heartbleed-security-bug-20140415-zquz1.html

[Gazza]

Jeff has also mentioned identity theft here derwan.

Nobody is going to chuck out the whole digital economy because of the chance you may have your identity stolen.

To put it another way, because you don't like online transactions doesn't give you any special rights. Nobody has to cater to your tastes, especially a Government run public transport operator who has a monopoly on passenger rail services 

[techblitz]

Jeff has also mentioned identity theft here derwan.

Nobody is going to chuck out the whole digital economy because of the chance you may have your identity stolen.

To put it another way, because you don't like online transactions doesn't give you any special rights. Nobody has to cater to your tastes, especially a Government run public transport operator who has a monopoly on passenger rail services 

cheeky response but i wil be cheeky back
as long as there are online security viruses,hackers,scammers and the newer security threat of outsourced call centres which record personal information of customers....there will be just enough online commerce naysayers to delay implementation of what you guys feel should be happening with this govt run PT network

[red dragin]

I must pay my rent by direct debit.  Am I being denied my democratic rights?

If that is your only option, then yes. The Act states a tenant must be given at three methods of payment. (I'm a property manager) If you are only given one option they are breaking the law.

[End off topic] 

[Derwan]

i thought online fraud was about more than just about money. Jeff has also mentioned identity theft here derwan.

You're more likely to get your identity stolen on Facebook than by having a secure online account for the Go Card.

I think people are just clutching at non-existent straws simply because they refuse to get with the times.

P.S.  Card topped up this morning.  Didn't even have to think about it!

[Fares_Fair]

I must pay my rent by direct debit.  Am I being denied my democratic rights?

If that is your only option, then yes. The Act states a tenant must be given at three methods of payment. (I'm a property manager) If you are only given one option they are breaking the law.

[End off topic] 

Enough said, well said RD ... 

Tired of intolerant thinking, many passengers support the action and asked/support change, hence the push for change to the top-up limits, unchanged after nearly 6 & 1/2 years.
Good thing someone's paying attention.

As for the ridiculous AVVM $100 limit (lasting just 3 days from zone 17), long-haul or high frequency use commuters are impacted the most and common sense needs to prevail.
It's called 'customer service; and ozbob's Reply #2 comments hit the nail on the head.

To those who don't see this as a form of coercion to force people into the auto top-up system, keep the blinkers on but don't mess with our open eyes.
For those who desire to give their financial information to TRANSLink or TMR, it's a free country. Good luck. 

[HappyTrainGuy]

I don't really like auto top ups. It's not that I'm afraid of identity theft and what not but because of how I manage my billing/banking. Similar to Surfrail. Basically more control/knowledge of where my money is going.

[Derwan]

I don't really like auto top ups. It's not that I'm afraid of identity theft and what not but because of how I manage my billing/banking. Similar to Surfrail. Basically more control/knowledge of where my money is going.

It's easier than you might think.  I look at the balance each time I touch on or off.  It gets lower and lower... and when I touch off under $5, I know (and confirm) that the next touch on will apply the top-up.  I then record it in my budget - before I see the transaction in my online banking. 

Also - it's not as if public transport expenses are unexpected. 

For those who desire to give their financial information to TRANSLink or TMR, it's a free country. Good luck. 

Likewise - for those who wear tin foil hats and pay all of their bills by cash at the post office - good luck to them too. 

Just for the record - I'll say again that I support the call for increased limits.  My point was that I don't see it as a big issue when there are easier and safer alternatives. 

[Fares_Fair]

I don't really like auto top ups. It's not that I'm afraid of identity theft and what not but because of how I manage my billing/banking. Similar to Surfrail. Basically more control/knowledge of where my money is going.

It's easier than you might think.  I look at the balance each time I touch on or off.  It gets lower and lower... and when I touch off under $5, I know (and confirm) that the next touch on will apply the top-up.  I then record it in my budget - before I see the transaction in my online banking. 

Also - it's not as if public transport expenses are unexpected. 

For those who desire to give their financial information to TRANSLink or TMR, it's a free country. Good luck. 

Likewise - for those who wear tin foil hats and pay all of their bills by cash at the post office - good luck to them too. 

Just for the record - I'll say again that I support the call for increased limits.  My point was that I don't see it as a big issue when there are easier and safer alternatives. 

Derwan, If your best 'argument' is to make inferences about madness aka tin foil hats, then clearly you need a better argument.
I don't need to make offensive inferences to make my case.

Learn some manners.

Part of being in a free country is that we don't all have to think or act as you.

I'm happy for you to state your opinion - but there is no need to demean anyone else's.

[Derwan]

Derwan, If your best 'argument' is to make inferences about madness aka tin foil hats, then clearly you need a better argument.

My 'argument' is that there is a perfectly safe and easy alternative to topping up by EFTPOS or cash.  I'm yet to see a reasonable argument against it.  There have been suggestions of possible fraud or identity theft - however as I've successfully argued, there is no risk of losing money as any fraudulent transactions are reversed.  I see no credible argument for identity theft... is there an accusation that the TMR website is insecure?

You mentioned earlier that you are "tired of intolerant thinking".  I am tired of people who refuse to use modern, easy-to-use technology and then base it on some unfounded fear or conspiracy theory.  The tin-foil hat comment is not to be taken literally.  It's a figure of speech to describe people taking unnecessary steps to protect themselves because of some unjustified fear.

I'm sorry if you find my opinion demeaning.  It's not meant to be aimed at you personally.

One of the things we do as public transport advocates is to try to get people to realise the benefits of public transport over road.  We try to influence people's perceptions and help them to see that there is an easy-to-use alternative that's safer and often quicker.  Some are extremely vocal in their opposition to the continued focus on roads.  Are we being intolerant or denying people's democratic rights to only use their cars for travel?

Just consider me an advocate for modern technology and the advantages it brings. 

[Fares_Fair]

Derwan, If your best 'argument' is to make inferences about madness aka tin foil hats, then clearly you need a better argument.

My 'argument' is that there is a perfectly safe and easy alternative to topping up by EFTPOS or cash.  I'm yet to see a reasonable argument against it.  There have been suggestions of possible fraud or identity theft - however as I've successfully argued, there is no risk of losing money as any fraudulent transactions are reversed.  I see no credible argument for identity theft... is there an accusation that the TMR website is insecure?

You mentioned earlier that you are "tired of intolerant thinking".  I am tired of people who refuse to use modern, easy-to-use technology and then base it on some unfounded fear or conspiracy theory.  The tin-foil hat comment is not to be taken literally.  It's a figure of speech to describe people taking unnecessary steps to protect themselves because of some unjustified fear.

I'm sorry if you find my opinion demeaning.  It's not meant to be aimed at you personally.

One of the things we do as public transport advocates is to try to get people to realise the benefits of public transport over road.  We try to influence people's perceptions and help them to see that there is an easy-to-use alternative that's safer and often quicker.  Some are extremely vocal in their opposition to the continued focus on roads.  Are we being intolerant or denying people's democratic rights to only use their cars for travel?

Just consider me an advocate for modern technology and the advantages it brings. 

Just because you have that opinion doesn't mean everybody has to do things 'your way'.
That's the point. It is a free country and thankfully we still do have choices, choices that you clearly want to curtail.

You think you know what is best for everyone and therein lies your autocratic downfall.

I don't argue against it per se, I argue for alternatives that meets ALL peoples needs, not just the narrow view of a pro-technologist who is anti-every other way than his own preference.

Please don't tell me you are a Gen Y 

[Derwan]

Please don't tell me you are a Gen Y 

X actually. Just a geeky X.

[Fares_Fair]

Please don't tell me you are a Gen Y 

X actually. Just a geeky X.

That explains it ... lol