iGO - Ipswich Transport Plan

[ozbob]

iGO - Ipswich Transport Plan



Ipswich City Council has commenced the development of an integrated transport plan called "iGO" to shape the city's future transport system. iGO will set transport investment priorities to ensure that the city is well served by a sustainable and economically viable transport system. Detailed strategies and actions will be developed to ensure the transport system has the best chance of meeting the needs of the Ipswich community over the next two decades and beyond. 

More information --> http://www.ipswich.qld.gov.au/about_council/corporate_publications/igo/index.php

================

I am at Springfield Central where there is to be an official launch of iGO shortly.

[ozbob]

At the launch ..





Photographs R Dow 12th February 2014

[ozbob]

Ipswich City Council Media Release

12 February, 2014

Council launches development of Ipswich Transport Plan

IPSWICH's transport network including roads, pedestrian and cyclist facilities, public transport, freight movements and car parking are about to be put under the spotlight.

Ipswich City Council has today launched the development of an integrated transport plan for the city named  iGO.
City Infrastructure Committee Chairperson Councillor Cheryl Bromage said iGO will provide a long-term blueprint for transport policy and investment across Ipswich.

Cr Bromage said iGO would be intrinsically linked to council's long term community plan and the Queensland Government's SEQ Regional Plan and their demographic forecasts for the city.

"Through the preparation of iGO, council will be seeking the community's input into this vital plan," she said.

"We encourage the community to visit the iGo website to learn more about the plan and how it affects them. 

The website can be accessed at http://www.ipswich.qld.gov.au/igoipswich."

Cr Bromage said that it was predicted that the number of daily transport trips made by Ipswich residents would triple from around 500,000 in 2006 to 1,500,000 in 2031.   

"These figures highlight the difficulty road authorities, such as council, will face when trying to provide adequate transport infrastructure to support the forecast population and economic growth."

Cr Bromage said iGO would cover a wide range of topics to do with the planning and management of transport within the city.

"The challenges faced included the rapid growth of the city, high car dependency, improving accessibility in the rural parts of the city, energy consumption, peak oil, climate change, physical inactivity, public transport needs and increased freight movements.

"These are all factors which will need to be considered when planning the city's future transport networks."

"We will also be looking at how our transport networks serve our key activity centres and industrial areas as these areas will be vita to drive growth in the local and regional economy."

Cr Bromage said part of the plan would focus on travel behaviour and transport mode choice.

"We will be looking at ways to encourage people to use more sustainable modes of transport, such as walking, cycling and public transport."
Cr Bromage said the preparation of iGO would be closely co-ordinated with council's land use planning activities to ensure an integrated transport and land use strategy was followed as the city develops. 

"This will allow future transport corridors to be identified and preserved for the future as the city grows.

"The involvement of the Department of Transport and Main Roads throughout the process will also be vital for the success of the plan."

Rail Back on Track spokesperson Robert Dow said iGO would be critical for the future of the Ipswich area.

"I would like to commend Ipswich City Council for the steps they are taking to ensure the transport requirements of this region are considered for the future," Mr Dow said.

"They are laying important groundwork for the transport vision of the region in the years ahead.

"It is essential that a balanced approach is taken as the plan needs to involve not only roads, but also public and active transport.

"There needs to be an increased focus on public transport as you cannot just keep widening the roads in Ipswich to cope with future transport demands."

Mr Dow said he wanted to encourage all residents to take part in the feedback process for iGO.

-ENDS-

[#Metro]

Bus lanes on arterial roads.
Stand along bus only lanes within suburban areas - I am hesitant to call these busways but there was a post in Human Transit about this in Almere.

[minbrisbane]

Sounds promising indeed, hopefully it all goes to plan.

[petey3801]

Bus lanes on arterial roads.
Stand along bus only lanes within suburban areas - I am hesitant to call these busways but there was a post in Human Transit about this in Almere.

The busways around the Almere district (in The Netherlands, Flevoland province) are actually very good. I have seen a few of them around and also traveled along one during trackwork. They are fantastic! Barely added 15mins to the journey time with trackworm, simply because we got off the train, walked downstairs, got on the bus and got straight on to the busway.
The best thing about them is simply this: No gold plating! It is a simple, 2 lane road, used only by buses with normal bus stops alongside. None of these million $$$ station monstrocities that we have in Brisbane, as they simply aren't needed! Traffic priority at intersections with normal roads (to the extent that the bus drivers don't even slow down - the sensor is a fair way back and once the bus is close to the intersection, light turns green and bus zooms through). Normal type pedestrian crossings (may have walk/don't walk lights, can't remember). Simple but effective, and because it is fairly cheap, there is more money to go around for more busway and other transport infrastructure!

[minbrisbane]

There's a really good video of the almere busway, but I can't find it right now. 
These show how the at-grade intersections work.  How it should be done!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P61pkA3GejI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pLsccQ-JeI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times click here!

Transport in spotlight for booming city



TALKING TRANSPORT:
Cr Cheryl Bromage, Rail Back on Track representative Robert Dow and Troy Dobinson from 24/7 Cycling Safety Fund at Springfield Central Station. Claudia Baxter

Transport in spotlight for booming city
Chris Owen 13th Feb 2014 4:00 AM

IPSWICH City Council is calling on the local community to help shape the city's future transport system.

The region's transport network including roads, pedestrian and cyclist facilities, public transport, freight movements and car parking will be put under the spotlight through an integrated transport plan for the city.

Called iGO, the plan will provide a long-term blueprint for transport policy and investment across Ipswich.

But before anything goes ahead, the council is looking to the community for input into the vital plan.

City Infrastructure Committee chairwoman Cr Cheryl Bromage said the project was all about "creating a vision for where we want to see the city by 2031".

Challenges to meet include the rapid growth of the city, high car dependency, improving accessibility, public transport needs and increased freight movements.

"These are all factors which will need to be considered when planning the city's future transport," Cr Bromage said.

With Ipswich's growing population, it is predicted the number of daily transport trips made by residents will triple from 500,000 in 2006, to 1,500,000 in 2031.

"These figures highlight the difficulty road authorities will face when trying to provide adequate transport infrastructure to support the forecast population and economic growth," she said.

Part of the plan will also focus on travel behaviour and choice of transport.

"We will be looking at ways to encourage people to use more sustainable modes of transport such as walking, cycling and public transport," she said.



Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said iGO would be critical for the future of Ipswich and applauded the ICC for taking steps to ensure the transport requirements of the region were considered for the future.

"There is great potential in the Ipswich area to get people out of cars and get them on bicycles, walking and onto public transport," he said.

The 24//7 Cycling Safety Fund founder Troy Dobinson said he would like to see a network of cycle routes to bring the community together and promote safe riding.

Both he and Mr Dow encouraged all residents to take part in the feedback process for iGO.

To provide feedback visit ipswich.qld.gov.au or phone 3810 6666.

[ozbob]

My only constructive criticism yesterday was that the mode share targets could be improved.

For example car trips < 60%, public transport trips > 20%, bicycle trips > 20%, walking > 15%.

The mode share targets presently in the iGo plan are the general SEQ ones.

For interest the PT mode share target for Ripley development is being aimed at 50% ...  good thinking ...

[Jonno]

My only constructive criticism yesterday was that the mode share targets could be improved.

For example car trips < 60%, public transport trips > 20%, bicycle trips > 20%, walking > 15%.

The mode share targets presently in the iGo plan are the general SEQ ones.

For interest the PT mode share target for Ripley development is being aimed at 50% ...  good thinking ...

Again we set the targets that will just deliver a mess. 

Much higher targets drive actual approach changes such as segregated bike & bus lanes, walkable communities and a network trunk transit routes.

Keeping the standard figures says "Just do More of the Same"

http://tinyurl.com/otx7hal

[SurfRail]

My only constructive criticism yesterday was that the mode share targets could be improved.

For example car trips < 60%, public transport trips > 20%, bicycle trips > 20%, walking > 15%.

The mode share targets presently in the iGo plan are the general SEQ ones.

For interest the PT mode share target for Ripley development is being aimed at 50% ...  good thinking ...

That is probably because there is no realistic hope of getting above the average.

The average figures for SEQ2031 were buoyed by attempting to build Brisbane up to 20% and the Gold Coast up to 15% of all journeys.  Both are greater than Melbourne currently and the Gold Coast one would be a 4-fold increase.

[BrizCommuter]

For new developments, a Runcorn (UK) style low cost busway should be a must.
For existing low density areas, BrizCommuter is still convinced that increased use of low floor mini and midi-buses (as in the UK and Japan) would allow for a more cost effective bus network. Frequency and span of hours is the key to growing patronage, but we all know that.

[ozbob]

All good feedback, thanks. ICC is keen to get transport sorted.  Using bus priority, minimal bus-ways, feeding rail, good connections. 

Have started to get serious with bicycle paths as well.

There are regular traffic jams in Ipswich and suburbs such as Goodna.  More of the same will not do it!

[#Metro]

15 minute all day express trains to Ipswich. This can be achieved progressively by first doubling services on the Springfield line to trains every 15 minutes.

This will free up Ipswich trains to run express all day from Roma Street to Darra, saving around 8-10 minutes of in-vehicle time, and up to another 15 minutes in waiting time. Importantly it will create turn up and go two way high frequency trains that will permit untimed connections with buses.

[johnnigh]

Bob, you're right to suggest higher targets for PT and AT, but the history of targetting in Q'land and Aus generally is not encouraging. I know of no target that has been even half-way approached.

The reason is that targets are not tightly linked to the policies that will help achieve them. And here the problem is mainly that the targets are 'whole of system' rather than a large un-aggregated set of targets, one for each project or very specific policy change.

Behaviour change requires carrots and sticks, as we know from the big successes, water use, drink driving being the best known. In our area, project designers and policy makers need to have reasonably well evidenced views about the effect of the project or policy. So, building a grade separated shared path on a significant desire line can be given a target based on prior experience, measurement of current flows, origin/destination data and so on.

It is the aggregation of the gains made from investment in specific changes that will lead to achievement of an aggregate target. If a govt begins with a grand target it then has to invest in the specifics that are needed to achieve that grand target. This is where govts in Australia from the top down have failed miserably.

[Jonno]

Bob, you're right to suggest higher targets for PT and AT, but the history of targetting in Q'land and Aus generally is not encouraging. I know of no target that has been even half-way approached.

The reason is that targets are not tightly linked to the policies that will help achieve them. And here the problem is mainly that the targets are 'whole of system' rather than a large un-aggregated set of targets, one for each project or very specific policy change.

Behaviour change requires carrots and sticks, as we know from the big successes, water use, drink driving being the best known. In our area, project designers and policy makers need to have reasonably well evidenced views about the effect of the project or policy. So, building a grade separated shared path on a significant desire line can be given a target based on prior experience, measurement of current flows, origin/destination data and so on.

It is the aggregation of the gains made from investment in specific changes that will lead to achievement of an aggregate target. If a govt begins with a grand target it then has to invest in the specifics that are needed to achieve that grand target. This is where govts in Australia from the top down have failed miserably.

Here here

[#Metro]

The reason why targets fail is because they don't work. They don't work because government cannot control or direct people's lives in a democracy like ours to that degree. And nor should they. All they can do is make the alternatives the best they can be to influence or persuade us. It is individuals directly that decide whether it really is worth it to take the car or PT when they get out of bed in the morning.

Cars do have major advantages over PT, and certainly so in dispersed areas. We can make PT the best alternative it can be - decent grid like road layout, allow developers the option to build taller denser buildings where demand exists, put on services with good network planning, implement road user charges / decongestion charges where possible (this will have to come along eventually as people dump petrol for power), decent frequency, legibility and span.

And if after doing all that, you get 30% PT mode share, then that's the answer. What is the alternative, send police over to lock people up if they jump in their car??

[Jonno]

Try "Learning from those that have succeeded and work out why it worked".

Anyway we haven't even tried to change the car orientedness of our cities so it's a bit to early to say "We tried our best"!!!

[minbrisbane]

The reason why targets fail is because they don't work.

The CURRENT targets don't 'work', because there doesn't seem to be an active push to meet them.

Or, basically - what Jonno said.

[#Metro]

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2014/02/12/how-will-we-get-to-work-in-the-future/

While these projections shouldn't be taken literally, the exercise highlights the probability that achieving even relatively modest changes in mode share in the future is an enormous challenge.

[bcasey]

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2014/02/12/how-will-we-get-to-work-in-the-future/

While these projections shouldn't be taken literally, the exercise highlights the probability that achieving even relatively modest changes in mode share in the future is an enormous challenge.

This is a bit off-topic, but that graph is very ambitious in its predictions, going up to almost 2200. Technology is going to change a lot in the next few decades, let alone in the next 200 years. Autonomous vehicles and better communication technology allowing for telecommuting are just two technologies that will change how we commute to work in the next few decades, and there are plenty of other technologies that will affect travel as well.

Who knows what we will have in 200 years. Scientists may have perfected teleportation by then (we can only hope) and I'd imagine we should be more progressed in space travel by then as well (as long as the human race hasn't destroyed itself by then via war or climate change, etc). It is also predicted that we will reach the Singularity (artificial intelligence reaching the level of humans) sometime this century, and once that happens, the world will most likely be changed significantly, not only in transport, but in terms of what kind of jobs will still be available for humans to do.

I think changes in mode share will come in the future, and the forces that cause them will depend on how quickly technology progresses, plus other factors like climate change, job opportunities, cost of commuting etc, but predicting what it will be in a couple of decades at this point, let alone 200 years is not really possible.

[ozbob]

From Quest South West News 19th February 2014 page 5

Have a say on council's plan for future of transport

[ozbob]

Queensland Times --> Share vision to get city's transport on the right path

Share vision to get city's transport on the right path

LIKE it or loathe it, transport is part of the daily routine for most of us.

Whether you catch a train to work, drop the kids to school, cycle on your weekends or spend a lot of your time stuck in traffic or battling for a car park, how we get around impacts our everyday lives.

In a city expanding as rapidly as Ipswich, proper planning to cater for the transport needs of the future population is a must.

Ipswich City Council is developing a transport plan for the city and is asking people to share their vision for transport in the fast-growing region.

The plan will look at the city's entire transport network - from public transport and roads to facilities for pedestrians and cyclists and car parking.

As residents are being encouraged more and more to leave their cars at home and use public transport, jump on their bikes or walk to their destination, providing good facilities will be essential to make these options affordable and convenient.

Besides taking cars off our clogged roads, this would also deliver health and lifestyle benefits.

It's over to members of the public to share their views on how to get Ipswich's transport on the right track.

[ozbob]

Queensland Times --> Council invites input into plan for development of Ipswich

[ozbob]

From the Queensland Times 31st Jan 2015 page 7

Transport a growing concern

[#Metro]

The more people and densely they live, the greater the claim can be.

Is there a possibility to get BUZ going in Ipswich? Deems doubtful from the maps - but if Ipswich City Council wants to run a 12 month trial and put some of its own money down, it could be done.

All day Express trains to Ipswich and 15 minute trains to Springfield are where the money is at

[ozbob]

 



Media release 1st December 2014

SEQ Rail Reform: Express Trains for the Ipswich Line, more trains for the Springfield Line

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls on Ipswich Line and Springfield Line Electorate candidates to support more trains more often for Springfield and all-day express trains for Ipswich.



Ipswich & Springfield lines - proposed
Image: Under rail reform, trains on the Springfield Line would run every 15 minutes. Ipswich line passengers would have express trains all day.
Image Credit: dancingmongoose http://backontrack.org/docs/bus/reform/ippyr.jpg

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Rail reform goes hand-in-hand with bus reform."

"Ipswich and Springfield train services are too slow or take too long to wait for. Voters in Ipswich and Bundamba electorates also deserve fast and frequent services. Under rail reform, Springfield line train services would be doubled to a train every 15 minutes all day, dramatically slashing journey times by up to 15 minutes to the Brisbane CBD by cutting waiting time at the train station. This change permits all Ipswich trains to run express from Darra to Roma Street stopping only at Indooroopilly, all day, from first service to last service, saving around 8 - 10 minutes off journey times from Ipswich to the Brisbane CBD. The construction of a Perth-style interchange at Indooroopilly will allow all day express journeys for bus passengers in Brisbane's western suburbs. An express train takes just 8 minutes to travel between Indooroopilly and the Brisbane CBD, while a Brisbane City Council (BCC) bus can take up to twice as long to complete the same journey and risks becoming trapped in Coronation Drive congestion.  In contrast to BCC's express bus services, which only operate in peak hour, our proposed Ipswich express train service will operate all day. A similar arrangement already occurs on the Gold Coast Line."

"A faster train service for Ipswich means better access to jobs in Brisbane, and better access for Brisbane residents to cheaper homes and rentals in Ipswich. Similar benefits will be realised for Springfield."

"The New Zealanders in Auckland are improving train services because buses are being rearranged to collect passengers and drop them off at train stations. After a decade, why is it in Queensland we haven't been able to co-ordinate buses and trains to work together as a single system? Perth has also set up a similar system, which has led to Perth trains carrying more passengers than Queensland Rail despite having a lower population than Brisbane."

"Only genuine reform of rail and bus networks, together with fare reform will guarantee abundant and low cost public transport for all."

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

Reference:

Auckland Transport, NZ, new network
https://at.govt.nz/projects-roadworks/new-public-transport-network/

[HappyTrainGuy]

Wouldn't Milton be smarter to be included as well given the closeness of Suncorp stadium and the new buildings/shops/restaurants and businesses around it??

[ozbob]

Probably, just concept.

[#Metro]

Wouldn't Milton be smarter to be included as well given the closeness of Suncorp stadium and the new buildings/shops/restaurants and businesses around it??

Yes, but a stronger argument could be made for Toowong, which has all of those things and a connection to UQ Chancellors Place. Toowong is currently not on the express pattern, due to timetabling constraints.

The current Ips timetable does have expresses stopping at Milton. However, adding stations dilutes the quality of service. Ideally Milton would be removed from the express pattern and this would permit a time saving closer to 10 minutes...

Secondly, during  non-peak periods, Springfield trains would be arriving every 15 minutes at interchange points (Darra, Indooroopilly) due to upgrades to the timetable. So the MAX waiting time is 15 minutes, and the average waiting time is 7.5 minutes. A person performing an interchange at Darra would experience a travel time similar to that if they caught a all stops Ipswich express service currently.

The Ipswich Motorway has been upgraded over the years and is generally a very good road given it has got political upgrades over the years. In contrast the Ips line train times have generally become slower over the years so that the reliability statistic can look good, and network congestion etc. Hence a need to keep the speed up to ensure competitiveness.

Decommissioning of Gailes station should be looked at due to poor location and patronage. Services likely to run much faster between Wacol and Goodna. Could be done by way of timetabling out services from the station.

[ozbob]

There is value in keeping the same pattern for peak and off peak with the Ippy flyers.  Including Milton would not really matter time wise, there is a lot of fat anyway.  I am with HTG.

[Gazza]

There is very little benefit to expressing through Milton because at that point trains are slowing to negotiate points and Ex Springfield and Ipswich trains slot in behind each other alternately (Quad tracks merge into 2 for all services from West)

However, adding stations dilutes the quality of service.

In what sense? Speed is important, but so is actually dropping people where they want to go.
The 2 minutes saved would come at great disbenefit to passengers because Milton is essentially an extension of the CBD and only set to keep growing taller,  and a final destination. In the time I worked in Milton back in 2011 there were heaps of office workers using the Ipswich  services...It would be a bit like having Gold Coast trains skip South Bank or Sydney trains skipping North Sydney.
http://goo.gl/maps/GzZCT

Indro I think is fine being on the express pattern instead of Toowong...With bus reform you'd have heaps of routes from Indooroopilly to UQ anyway.

Rankings for PM boardings top 10:
Central
RS
Valley
South Bank
Bowen Hills
South Bris
Park Rd
Milton
Indro
Toowong

Speaks for itself

[#Metro]

There is very little benefit to expressing through Milton because at that point trains are slowing to negotiate points and Ex Springfield and Ipswich trains slot in behind each other alternately (Quad tracks merge into 2 for all services from West)

It is not clear that trains would be unable to slot in the event they expressed passed Milton.

In what sense? Speed is important, but so is actually dropping people where they want to go.

True; but I'm expressing my higher value for speed and simplicity over your higher preference for stopping at Milton.

The 2 minutes saved would come at great disbenefit to passengers because Milton is essentially an extension of the CBD and only set to keep growing taller,  and a final destination. In the time I worked in Milton back in 2011 there were heaps of office workers using the Ipswich  services...It would be a bit like having Gold Coast trains skip South Bank or Sydney trains skipping North Sydney.

It would be like Gold Coast trains skipping Park Road and Dutton Park, something that has precedent. And also a situation where trains were approaching points.

In 2011 the Springfield line was not open. I don't question that you saw lots of people use Ipswich trains, but what other trains were they going to use given that the Springfield line/Springfield trains did not exist then? Access is still possible via connection at Darra/Indooroopilly and would give comparable travel times to what is there now. Springfield trains will be boosted to trains every 15 minutes.

http://goo.gl/maps/GzZCT

Yes, I agree there are buildings showing offices there. There are also such buildings at Toowong, and the express trains do not stop there.

Rankings for PM boardings top 10:
Central
RS
Valley
South Bank
Bowen Hills
South Bris
Park Rd
Milton
Indro
Toowong

Speaks for itself

It is true that Milton has high boarding. The data requires interpretation though - Station aggregate figures don't disaggregate and are blunt. Relevant information would be to determine what proportion of passengers from the stations

Indooroopilly
Darra
Wacol
Gailes
Goodna
Redbank
Riverview
Dinmore
Ebbw Vale
Bundamba
Booval
East Ipswich
Ipswich

are getting off at Milton. Happy to be proven wrong, but I suspect it is not that much... again Springfield Line trains would be boosted and I think most pax getting off at Milton would be captured by those trains.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Previously Gold Coast Trains ran express South Brisbane to Beenleigh now look at its stopping pattern. Toowoong doesn't have a TOD or a Suncorp Stadium in a short walking distance. If Uni students need to get to UQ then they can transfer at Indro. If you want to get to Toowong transfer at Indro or Milton/Roma Street. As has been mentioned earlier trains will be slowing regardless due to the points.

Bypassing Milton just adds extra confusion when it comes to special event services as not every time there is an event on at Suncorp Stadium are there extra services. The Gold Coast line can get away with it as the Tennis is on once a year but Suncorp Stadium can have events on at any day and at any time.

[SurfRail]

Milton should be on both patterns given the pattern of development springing up around it and the existing patronage.  Perfectly justified.

It's right on a curve to the west so speed would be a negligible concern.

[Gazza]

In 2011 the Springfield line was not open. I don't question that you saw lots of people use Ipswich trains, but what other trains were they going to use given that the Springfield line/Springfield trains did not exist then?

Lapdog, please. Richlands opened in 2011 shortly after the Brisbane floods. The year I was working there had the introduction of sector 1 timetables which is when the split stopping patterns were introduced.

Yes, I agree there are buildings showing offices there. There are also such buildings at Toowong, and the express trains do not stop there.

Yes, but toowong has about one tall tower, compared to Milton which has several, with more on the way. On google maps you can see the relative size of the commercial area around each. Milton is bigger.

[darthcaligula666]

Milton should be on both patterns given the pattern of development springing up around it and the existing patronage.  Perfectly justified.

completely agree. the multiple sporting events etc that are hosted at milton make it a useful stop at all times of the day. as much as i would have loved the trains to stop at toowong of a morning when we had classes or exams at st lucia, i have to agree that it would be a redundant stop on an express pattern if the train is already stopping at indro. as pointed out earlier, buses connect st lucia and indro and trains run between indro and toowong pretty often. you can always plan your journey properly to anticipate making your connections between the two, be they bus or train.
it would be fantastic if the stopping pattern on ipswich line could be changed to reflect these changes. if it did change, perhaps we wouldnt have to be up at 4am every morning to get to the city in time to open the store at 7:00. hopefully this isnt just wishful thinking!

[Gazza]

Perhaps another small side benefit to having Milton on the express pattern.
If we did move to a 4tph Springfield and 2tph Ipswich Exp pattern then that means Milton gets 6tph.

Currently commuters coming from south of the Merivale bridge to work in Milton get caught out with with only 4tph counter peak, which is a pain in the ass having to sometimes  wait 15 minutes to catch the train one station.

[dancingmongoose]

If you had issues with not stopping at Milton why weren't they raised when the media release was first proposed two months ago...

[Gazza]

It may have slipped through?
I thought when we've discussed this in the past most agreed Milton would stay.