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Author Topic: Some citytrain questions from a newbie  (Read 2695 times)

Offline Jockosaurus

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Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« on: February 05, 2014, 02:52:01 PM »

There are probably simple answers to these so please forgive my ignorance  :D

  • What does "sectorisation" mean in the context it is used here?
  • On that note, a glossary would be useful.
  • Is there any technical reason the Exhibition loop couldn't run all year round?
  • Why do all QR citytrains run through Roma St / Central/ F Valley? Why are there *never* trains travelling direct from say Varsity Lakes to Ipswich via Tennyson or Ipswich to Cleveland via Yeerongpilly?

cheers,
Jockosaurus

Offline aldonius

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2014, 03:49:34 PM »
Welcome!

1. Sectorisation means keeping train services from different lines on those different lines. This has a practical reason in terms of track layout and usage - there are four tracks through the main city stations (disregarding Central). Two of them (the 'mains', Fortitude Valley 3 & 4) carry the Ipswich, Richlands, Caboolture, Rosewood & Sunshine Coast lines. The other two tracks (the 'suburbans', FV 1 & 2) carry Shorncliffe, Doomben, Airport, Ferny Grove, Cleveland, Beenleigh and Gold Coast lines. Now, to get onto the Merivale Bridge from the mains, or onto the Ekka loop from the suburbans, you need to cross over the other track pair. This means you're blocking it, which reduces capacity and makes delays worse.

2. Good point.

3. It could, but there's not much point yet. Further, the points to get on to it are halfway along Bowen Hills platform 4 - which makes life difficult in general. For a more detailed argument, see this BrizCommuter post.

4. a) breaks sectorisation b) it's slower for the Coast and minimal demand for Cleveland-Ipswich.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2014, 03:53:37 PM »
Welcome!

Sectorisation is just pairing lines with each other.  Sector one is Rosewood, Ipswich, Caboolture, Sunshine Coast, Springfield.

Sector two are the rest of the lines.

Exhibition loop - simply not enough trains and at times paths for the trains (slots).  It is used for train movements 24 hours a day.

Tennyson services were ceased in 2011, prior to new timetables for sector 1.  Again simply not enough train paths on the Southern line.  Hopefull that one day services might be restored.

Main passenger movements are to and from CBD, network has evolved as radial.  Highly desirable to have non radial routes but system simply does not have the resources at this time.
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2014, 03:56:11 PM »
Aldonius, how would you like to start setting up a glossary thread.  Sectorisation might be a good start?  Thanks ..

 8) :)
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Offline aldonius

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2014, 04:30:13 PM »
I'll chuck it in Open Forum - QLD for now...

Offline ozbob

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2014, 05:59:09 PM »
I'll chuck it in Open Forum - QLD for now...

Thanks!   8) :-t
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Offline Jockosaurus

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2014, 01:06:35 PM »
Thanks for your replies people.  A couple more:

Do Translink make their trip data publicly available?  i.e. Who touched on and off where and when?  I have seen https://opia.api.translink.com.au/v1/ but that doesn't seem to be what I'm talking about.

Why is there so little commercial activity associated with most stations? Park Road for example is a minor hub and would really benefit from a newsagent and coffee outlet at a minimum.

cheers,
Jockosaurus

Offline bcasey

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2014, 01:20:59 PM »
Translink currently makes the timetable information, such as routes, stops and services times, etc, available on their website in GTFS format, and the OPIA api also provides access to make request to their trip planner.

However, the Go-card data is what you are talking about, the transaction information. They don't currently make that available publically, as there are privacy issues associated with it, as well as commercial issues. Last I heard about it, they are looking into how to provide it while minimising the risk to people's privacy and safety, but that was a while ago, and I'm not sure whether they made any progress on it.

Offline joninbrisbane

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2014, 01:22:05 PM »

Why is there so little commercial activity associated with most stations? Park Road for example is a minor hub and would really benefit from a newsagent and coffee outlet at a minimum.


That's something I think of frequently too.  I've no idea.

Offline ozbob

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2014, 02:46:56 PM »

Why is there so little commercial activity associated with most stations? Park Road for example is a minor hub and would really benefit from a newsagent and coffee outlet at a minimum.


That's something I think of frequently too.  I've no idea.

My understanding is that it was complicated by legal and some other planning reasons (incredible I know).  Even when King George Square Bus station was built it was turned out an as empty shell.  I understand that some light has been shining on this and we might begin to see more associated commercial ventures ..

Things move rather slowly and oddly in .... QUEENSLAND ...  :P
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Offline SurfRail

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2014, 04:14:18 PM »
There were legal issues with commercial activity at stations for several decades.  Meanwhile the SRA down south happily let out space all over the place.  Southern Cross and Flinders St leave us for dead, on the concourse areas and (especially at Flinders St) even on the platforms.

Richlands has a kiosk space which I expect is probably still untenanted.  I don't think they even bothered with the Springfield stations.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 04:22:04 PM by SurfRail »
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Offline ozbob

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2014, 04:20:55 PM »
Richlands Kiosk is operating, was last time I was there ... assume still going.  Has snacks, coffee etc.

Major stations in Melbourne all have snack outlets.  Love a few hot dim sims in the cold air on the platform ...

There seems to be some provision for commerical outlets at Springfield Central station, although at this time nothing operating.
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Offline joninbrisbane

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2014, 04:54:30 PM »
I was surprised to see a cafe 'in' KGSBS.

Still incredible to me that there are still unused retail spaces down there.

On a completely and OT tangent, is there any reason why fare gates couldn't be used at KGS etc to create pre-paid stations?  I guess it has something to do with the gocard..

Offline longboi

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2014, 11:58:21 PM »
I was surprised to see a cafe 'in' KGSBS.

Still incredible to me that there are still unused retail spaces down there.

On a completely and OT tangent, is there any reason why fare gates couldn't be used at KGS etc to create pre-paid stations?  I guess it has something to do with the gocard..

Spot on.

There are actually two separate go card 'systems' which talk to each other at the back end. One is for bus and ferry (3G) and the other is for rail (hardwired).

Even if this wasn't the case, there would be the inevitable confusion over where to touch on/off  (i.e. "touch on and off the bus...except at King George Square") and the redundancy considering buses already have go card equipment.
Gates are specified for hardwired

Offline aldonius

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2014, 02:43:43 AM »
I still think busway stations should go gated, prepaid & all-door at some stage. But that's another rant for another thread.

Offline joninbrisbane

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2014, 07:29:19 AM »
perhaps Bob could move this discussion to a new thread. 

Would it be possible for the gates to be rigged up to check positive balance only, and not treat it as a touch on/off.  There'd be huge confusion, I'm certain of that.

Or, even 'dummy' gps based gates...

Offline SurfRail

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2014, 03:10:18 PM »
The system operating in Perth allows you to dispense with touching off from your train journey if you transfer to a bus at some Joondalup line stations, although that is a function of the station design (the bus interchange is immediately above the platforms and the station fare gates are only located at the car park / footpath exit, so there is no way to actually touch off before hopping on the bus).

I like that our system doesn't have any issues like that or like the Melbourne tram no touching issue.
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Offline Otto

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Re: Some citytrain questions from a newbie
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2014, 04:13:39 PM »
I still think busway stations should go gated, prepaid & all-door at some stage. But that's another rant for another thread.
That cannot happen under the present system. Cubic use an ID (identifier) system. All rail stations have the same ID throughout the network, however, Buses and Ferries have a different ID for each individual vehicle. The touchon ID must match the touchoff ID otherwise a fixed fare is charged.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 04:18:55 PM by Otto »

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