Public transport fare concessions for tertiary students

[ozbob]

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2014/1/31/tertiary-transport-rort-to-stop

Media Statements
Minister for Transport and Main Roads
The Honourable Scott Emerson
Friday, January 31, 2014

Tertiary transport rort to stop

The Newman Government is cracking down on public transport users falsely claiming to be full time university students in order to receive cheaper fares.

Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson said a tertiary transport concession card, similar to that used in regional Queensland since 2004 and interstate, will be rolled out across South East Queensland.

"As a Government which promised at the election to improve and revitalise frontline services, we will not stand for people cheating the system and ripping off honest users," Mr Emerson said.

"This form of fare evasion is costing taxpayers up to $8 million a year which is why we are introducing a state-wide Tertiary Transport Concession Card (TTCC).

"It's a problem which was ignored by Labor, but the Newman Government would prefer to spend that money on driving down the cost of fares.

"Tertiary and post-secondary students will need to present the TTCC to receive the 50 per cent discount off public transport fares.

"These changes will bring Queensland into line with other Australian jurisdictions, such as New South Wales and Victoria.

"The cards will be valid for a maximum of 12 months."

From now until 30 June 2014 there will be a transitional period where no fines will be issued for failing to carry the TTCC, and Senior Network Officers will be educating students about the new cards.

Mr Emerson said from next month students would be able to apply for a TTCC by filling in an application form and taking it to their recognised educational institution for validation.

"Students must submit their application form to TransLink and then a new card will be mailed out within 15 business days," he said.

Students who study part-time, externally or at an institution that is not an authorised higher education facility or Registered Training Organisation are not eligible for concessional fares.

For more information on the Tertiary Transport Concession Card, visit the TransLink website www.translink.com.au (external site) or phone 13 12 30, anytime.

[ENDS] 31 January 2014

[ozbob]

^ not rorting Minister, that is fare evasion ...

Rorting  work (a system) to obtain the greatest benefit while remaining within the letter of the law*.

*http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/rort

Manipulating the free after nine paid journeys, or manipulating the two paid daily journey cap for Seniors is rorting ...

[ozbob]

Couriermail --> Tertiary students told Go Card fare rort is set to end

[Derwan]

I don't see how this will significantly reduce fare evasion.  Students using concessional Go Cards must carry their current student identification with them anyway.  No identification = fine.  It's no different to complete fare evasion - except perhaps that it's easier to get away with if there are no transit officers.  (You still have a Go Card to scan through gates, etc.)

Is the cost of implementation and administration really worth the savings from a reduction in fare evasion?

It reminds me.... I caught a train once with a technophobe who refused to get a Go Card.  He bought a concession ticket from the machine "because it's cheaper".  I told him that he might as well have not purchased a ticket at all - as if it was checked by a transit officer, they would ask for ID anyway.

[ozbob]

Took part in a short interview 4BC News Talk with host Patrick Condron on this.  Was able to highlight the fact that it is technically fare evasion, explained what a rort is and again highlighted the fact that unemployed in Queensland are not afforded concession public transport travel.

[STB]

I have fairly grave concerns about this, particularly of the part where you will only be classed as a full time student by Qld Govt standards if you study 12hrs a week (ie: 4 subjects a semester in a usual degree).  If you are a science or engineering student and have additional hours in prac classes (which isn't always done every week hence may be less than 12hrs a week), you are screwed.  And by Aust Govt and the university's standards, if you do 3 out of 4 subjects you are a full time student.

I did 3 out of 4 subjects for health reasons partly and partly because not all subjects were available due to the way my degree was structured.  I also had courses with only 3 lectures and that was it, except that you'd have a semester length assignment where you have to meet for at least 4hrs a week as a large group to complete the assignment (we'd have to work as if you were working in a company, and work out hours as a group to work together).

[ozbob]

When I was a university academic, 3 subjects was sufficient to be classified as Full Time ..

[ozbob]

Tertiary Transport Concession Card

--> http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/concessions/tertiary-transport-card

[ozbob]

^ STB  I would expect if you are classified as Full Time at the Institution you will be eligible.  There is no way the institutions really have the capability or would want to classify full time students as those who meet the arbitrary 12 hour and those who don't.  There are always tutorials, practicals and the like that would satisfy the hours.

[ozbob]

For those who are part-time.  Go the rort!   

[STB]

^ STB  I would expect if you are classified as Full Time at the Institution you will be eligible.  There is no way the institutions really have the capability or would want to classify full time students as those who meet the arbitrary 12 hour and those who don't.  There are always tutorials, practicals and the like that would satisfy the hours.

I suppose it will depend on how pedantic the Qld Govt will want to be on it I suppose.  I know a lot of the courses I was doing was 3hrs a week, but would only go for 9-10 weeks (mostly due to cost cuts within departments).

[STB]

Something I should point out too, is that just because a student may be doing 3/4 subjects, they can easily be working up to 80 hrs a week between university and unpaid or lowly paid work related to their study, as I did from 2010-2012, that eventually got me some unpaid work on a couple of major TV shows down in Sydney.  I had to back away from that in 2013 due to personal and health reasons.  2014 I'm working on stabilizing my finances to perhaps go back to study in 2015 and finish my degree (if I so wish to).

[ozbob]

I think there should be information sessions during O weeks on how to to ' optimise ' your travel with a go card ...

[STB]

I can tell you right now, knowing the reality of being a student and what's happening at university (at least the one I went to), most likely I'd have to ditch the degree on financial reasons based on what the Qld Govt is doing.  There's no way in hell that I would be able to afford Adult fares with 3/4 subjects that easily add up to 30-40hrs a week in reality (not including volunteer work or additional low paid work) when you add in assignments, study etc.

EDIT: Not all lectures are done on campus nowadays but uploaded online to watch later, hence it would not be classed as 'On campus', however you would have on campus tutorials that may not be every week.

[ozbob]

Yes, the basic issue is that the fares are simply too expensive.  I suspect that many will just fare evade, some will go rort, others will just give up.

I have noticed of late that QPS seem to be working with TOs and SNOs a lot more ..

The blog comments at the CM are overall savage too --> http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/tertiary-students-told-go-card-fare-rort-is-set-to-end/story-fnihsrf2-1226814635006

Most realise the fare system is a disaster ...

[ozbob]

A random sample at Goodna the other day off peak, about 2 in 15 actually touched off.

Guess the rest have paper single tickets ... 

[ozbob]

Yes, great effort by all to produce one of the most bizarre fare systems in existence ...

[STB]

Here's the rules from NSW regarding transport and concessions for students:

For the purposes of administering Tertiary Student Concessions, 'a full-time student' means:

a university student who is considered to be enrolled on a full-time basis by their university; or
a student at any other tertiary institution other than a university who is enrolled in a course of study requiring at least 20 hours per week of classes for a continuous period of at least nine weeks.

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/content/travel-concessions-tertiary-students

Essentially what Qld Govt are doing is asking students to do more than double that before they will consider them as full time students (48hrs a week - 12hrs per subject for 12 weeks).  That's simply sadistic  .

[ozbob]

... a university student who is considered to be enrolled on a full-time basis by their university; ...

That is the sensible test ...  administratively manageable ...

[ozbob]

Here's the rules from NSW regarding transport and concessions for students:

For the purposes of administering Tertiary Student Concessions, 'a full-time student' means:

a university student who is considered to be enrolled on a full-time basis by their university; or
a student at any other tertiary institution other than a university who is enrolled in a course of study requiring at least 20 hours per week of classes for a continuous period of at least nine weeks.

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/content/travel-concessions-tertiary-students

Essentially what Qld Govt are doing is asking students to do more than double that before they will consider them as full time students (48hrs a week - 12hrs per subject for 12 weeks).  That's simply sadistic  .

No, it is only 12 hours per week for 12 weeks, not 48 hours.

http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/concessions/tertiary-transport-card

[STB]

Here's the rules from NSW regarding transport and concessions for students:

For the purposes of administering Tertiary Student Concessions, 'a full-time student' means:

a university student who is considered to be enrolled on a full-time basis by their university; or
a student at any other tertiary institution other than a university who is enrolled in a course of study requiring at least 20 hours per week of classes for a continuous period of at least nine weeks.

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/content/travel-concessions-tertiary-students

Essentially what Qld Govt are doing is asking students to do more than double that before they will consider them as full time students (48hrs a week - 12hrs per subject for 12 weeks).  That's simply sadistic  .

No, it is only 12 hours per week for 12 weeks, not 48 hours.

http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/concessions/tertiary-transport-card

You are only counting the on campus hours, not including assignments, study etc.  Universities calculate it as 3 contact hours and then additional hours for study, assignments, excursions etc.

Some courses (especially in the science and engineering faculty) will have more hours added for practicals etc.

[ozbob]

Yes, but that is not directly quantifiable for their purposes. It is actual course contact hours of 12 hours. NSW is 20 hours or if the uni says they are full time.

My guess is the unis etc. will just certify on the basis if a students enrolment is full time.  No regard for hours at all ..

[STB]

My guess is the unis etc. will just certify on the basis if a students enrolment is full time.  No regard for hours at all ..

Probably.  I know QUT has been quite laxed in the past about it all, Griffith even more so.  Heck with assignments at Griffith, they didn't even really give a toss on when you handed them in.  I even had one Lecturer allow me to do an assignment at Griffith well after the due date as I forgot to do it at the time, and not lose any marks over it.

Honestly if the university says I'm full time, I'm full time.  End of story, regardless of what TMR and the Govt wants to think.

[Thomas Magor]

Here's an idea... why don't the institutions share their enrollment data with the transit authorities. It should not be hard from a technical standpoint for a concession GoCard to become invalid as soon as the student's enrollment status changes (for instance, in SI-Net for all you UQ people out there). Computer systems are able to talk to each other you know, they just need to be introduced. I could be wrong, but I think this happens in Perth with some degree of efficiency and minimal incursion on privacy.

[ozbob]

A good suggestion, but ...

The go card system can not even be configured to let punters know if their auto-topup is cancelled.

I think if it was possible they would have done it.

[ozbob]

Some institutions in Perth do exchange student information, others don't.

See --> http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/TicketsandFares/SmartRider/BuyingSmartRider/TertiarySmartRiders.aspx

[Thomas Magor]

I'm sure the GoCard could be configured to do all sorts of wonderful things, but the airheads don't want to. It's just too hard for what they would perceive as minimal increases in benefit. My view is that Brisbane lacks the population density for issues of efficiency to be our administrators primary concern. Rather, because we can't operate a profitable network, we have to focus on cost recovery

[ozbob]

OFFICE OF THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION

FRIDAY 31 JANUARY 2014

LNP MAKES GO CARD RORTING EASIER

Shadow Transport Minister, Jackie Trad, says the LNP Government's announcement of the Tertiary Transport Concession Card to stamp out fare evasion is welcome but doesn't go far enough to stop rorting on the TransLink network.

"Nobody likes to see rorting of the fare system and I welcome ideas to reduce fare evasion, but the Minister Scott Emerson is turning a blind eye to the types of rorting that have been made even easier by the LNP," Ms Trad said.

"The Newman Government has made the go card easier to rort when they lowered the weekly cap to nine trips.

"Every savvy go card user knows that they can take short trips during the week to reach the nine-trip cap before Friday.

"Even commuter group Rail Back on Track has identified that the LNP's bad policy has contributed to significant rorting which adds costs to the system and all Queensland taxpayers."

Ms Trad said that Minister Emerson had been the Minister for Transport and Main Roads for almost two years now but had not made any progress in addressing this well-known problem.

"Minister Emerson continually blames the Labor Government for everything but after two years that excuse has well and truly passed its use by date," Ms Trad said.

"He knows that the LNP's nine trips and free policy is costing more than was promised and is facilitating rorting but he makes every effort to hide the true cost of his bungled policy.

"Scott Emerson just continually sticks his head in the sand instead of grappling with the big issues in the Transport portfolio."

Ms Trad said that a report released yesterday by the Australasian Railways Association (ARA) showed that investment in rail to reduce congestion in Brisbane would be 57% cheaper than investing in roads.

"This landmark report appears to have gone unnoticed by the Newman LNP Government and the Transport Minister, with not even a whimper of a response from them.

"Clearly the reason for the Minister's silence is that he and the whole LNP Government are shackled to Campbell Newman's TransApex tunnel vision which has funnelled billions of dollars of infrastructure investment into toll roads that are unaffordable and underused," Ms Trad said.

Ms Trad said that the ARA report showed that billions of dollars that Campbell Newman had spent on toll roads would have been better spent on public transport infrastructure.

[dancingmongoose]

Not getting one. Stuff you translink, I have 4 months left of my course. I have a student ID. It expires the same day I graduate. Go away. Lower your ridiculous fares and maybe I'll think about it.

[ozbob]

Yes, great effort by all to produce one of the most bizarre fare systems in existence ...

So bad it deserves another round!   

[Derwan]

Interesting comment on the Facebook Page.

https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/10152269356333968?stream_ref=10

"So a Queensland university student will have the student ID card issued by the uni, the go card, and also the TTCC card. Three cards. A West Australian university student will have all that with just one card, with the student having signed a form giving the university permission to tell the transport authority when the student is no longer studying full time, and therefore no longer entitled to concessional fares, and the SmartRider card continues to work, but charging full fare for trips rather than concession."

[dancingmongoose]

Awaiting another round of applause...

[SurfRail]

This State is run by idiots.  Western Australia is not.

Everything becomes much easier to accept once you digest that.

[ozbob]

This State is run by idiots.  Western Australia is not.

Everything becomes much easier to accept once you digest that.

[ozbob]

Interesting comment on the Facebook Page.

https://www.facebook.com/RAILBackOnTrack/posts/10152269356333968?stream_ref=10

"So a Queensland university student will have the student ID card issued by the uni, the go card, and also the TTCC card. Three cards. A West Australian university student will have all that with just one card, with the student having signed a form giving the university permission to tell the transport authority when the student is no longer studying full time, and therefore no longer entitled to concessional fares, and the SmartRider card continues to work, but charging full fare for trips rather than concession."

--> http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/TicketsandFares/SmartRider/BuyingSmartRider/TertiarySmartRiders.aspx

[STB]

Just to clarify, I have no problems with them enforcing non students using concession tickets.  What I have a serious problem with is the execution and that it won't really be up to the university to decide if they are a full time student, but will be up to the authorities instead, and that seriously worries me big time.  What also worries me is that as far as I'm concerned if you are studying 75% of a full time load, you ARE A FULL TIME STUDENT!  Under the Australian Government guidelines, 3/4 load IS a full time load, even if it is 9 contact hours a week, that adds up to 30-40hrs a week in study, assignments etc (you generally get 3 assignments per subject, so up to 9 assignments all up with a 3/4 load).

Some students have NO CHOICE but to take a 3/4 load, as it may clash with unpaid work related to their studies, in order to become more employable, have family obligations or have health issues where a 100% load is too stressful for them.

Under Austudy, you earn approximately $398/fortnight, and you expect students with a 3/4 load to pay Adult fares with that income?  SCREW YOU QLD!

And just to add, this adds another layer of administration, so it is likely that costs will go up to cover it.  Sigh...  Students have it hard enough without additional BS to go with it.

I concur with SurfRail, this state is full of idiots! 

[Fares_Fair]

I know of a 'student' (working full time) who is currently studying as part of his career advancement.
I told him of the TTCC changes that were announced today.

He was unconcerned.
He said that he would apply to do 3 subjects and then just defer or drop out of the 3rd subject after getting the TTCC just so he can continue getting a 50% discount on his fares.

[STB]

I know of a 'student' (working full time) who is currently studying as part of his career advancement.
I told him of the TTCC changes that were announced today.

He was unconcerned.
He said that he would apply to do 3 subjects and then just defer or drop out of the 3rd subject after getting the TTCC just so he can continue getting a 50% discount on his fares.

If you read the rules, it states that it is based on hours, not the number of subjects.  So, it must be at LEAST 12hrs a week for 12 weeks, meaning that you must be doing at least 4 subjects, not 3, unless that 3rd subject has additional hours than the usual 3hrs a week (not including the additional 7-10 hrs in study and assignments that the university expects of you).

[longboi]

I know of a 'student' (working full time) who is currently studying as part of his career advancement.
I told him of the TTCC changes that were announced today.

He was unconcerned.
He said that he would apply to do 3 subjects and then just defer or drop out of the 3rd subject after getting the TTCC just so he can continue getting a 50% discount on his fares.

If you read the rules, it states that it is based on hours, not the number of subjects.  So, it must be at LEAST 12hrs a week for 12 weeks, meaning that you must be doing at least 4 subjects, not 3, unless that 3rd subject has additional hours than the usual 3hrs a week (not including the additional 7-10 hrs in study and assignments that the university expects of you).

I think you're interpreting the policy incorrectly. The 'course duration' of 12 weeks; from my reading, refers to the requirement that the entire course of study be more than 12 weeks (i.e. Somebody doing a one week short course full-time would not be eligible).

Also, what you are forgetting is that universities will be confirming the study load of students. A policy decision will most likely be made to consider all subjects to be an equal 4 contact hours per week, at least for the purposes of attendance classification.

Remember, it's in the best interest of unis to retain as many academically-qualified students as possible. They don't want to lose students over the fact that those students can't afford to travel to uni.

As for no student/go card integration, there is only one word for that; Cubic.

[STB]

I know of a 'student' (working full time) who is currently studying as part of his career advancement.
I told him of the TTCC changes that were announced today.

He was unconcerned.
He said that he would apply to do 3 subjects and then just defer or drop out of the 3rd subject after getting the TTCC just so he can continue getting a 50% discount on his fares.

If you read the rules, it states that it is based on hours, not the number of subjects.  So, it must be at LEAST 12hrs a week for 12 weeks, meaning that you must be doing at least 4 subjects, not 3, unless that 3rd subject has additional hours than the usual 3hrs a week (not including the additional 7-10 hrs in study and assignments that the university expects of you).

I think you're interpreting the policy incorrectly. The 'course duration' of 12 weeks; from my reading, refers to the requirement that the entire course of study be more than 12 weeks (i.e. Somebody doing a one week short course full-time would not be eligible).

Also, what you are forgetting is that universities will be confirming the study load of students. A policy decision will most likely be made to consider all subjects to be an equal 4 contact hours per week, at least for the purposes of attendance classification.

Remember, it's in the best interest of unis to retain as many academically-qualified students as possible. They don't want to lose students over the fact that those students can't afford to travel to uni.

As for no student/go card integration, there is only one word for that; Cubic.

So how does this work if part of the course is done online?  Is it just a blanket 4hr (even though in reality, it's timetabled as 3hrs) regardless, as lectures for example are becoming more and more common to be delivered online, rather than on campus.

Also, I strongly believe that online degrees (that go for longer than 12 weeks - normally the ones that are distance education eg: USQ), needs to be recognised as a full time student.  They still do the same workloads as an on campus student, and still have a small amount of on campus work, depending on the type of degree.