Park road station - platform 4

[ozbob]

Platform 4 Park Road has not been in regular use. Following some modifications with the platform edge has now been brought into regular use for some peak Gold Coast line services.  Park Road platform 4 is a dual gauge platform.

Roma St Platform 4 PID




Park Road























Photographs R Dow 20th January 2014

[dancingmongoose]

I noticed that just the other day, going through timetables saw some early morning GC -> Doomben trains stop at platform 4. I was a little shocked initially, but very pleased. There are several other instances of wasted resource on the rail network (eg Tennyson loop...), so it's good to see progress made somewhere.

[SurfRail]

It is currently not possible to run passenger trains from Tennyson to Yeerongpilly as the track connecting the fork to the inbound platform does not exist - it used to be a diamond crossover but the track it crossed has been replaced with something more heavy duty because coal trains were apparently creating issues.  The track just cuts out abruptly now.

Still possible to go from the soutbound platform to the loop (I think) and for trains to use the loop to get from the west to the Beenleigh corridor, just not Yeerongpilly inbound itself.  (I'm not 100% on the layout as to whether you can get from the fork to the platform at Yeronga or Fairfield either.  Dutton Park I think would be possible.)

[dancingmongoose]

I fear we are getting off-topic here

Great minds think alike Shane, that is exactly what I meant. I've just finished going through all the Doomben timetables for a little project I'm working on, and I've noticed quite a number of train going through to Park Road during pm peak, so if there was a capacity issue you would think it would be then. I know I would certainly use the connection, travelling between Oxley and South Bank is a practically a daily commute for me, and last year my timetable had me going in a several different times between 7AM and midday, and coming home between midday and 9PM so pretty much all hours of the day.

SurfRail - hadn't heard that, the only thing I heard was part of one of the platforms had been demolished. I go in on Tuesday so I'll catch the 104 home and take a look. If you say it is probably possible to connect to Dutton Park station, even if not Yeerongpilly, getting to Park Road would be more important, giving connections to Cleveland, and keep going to South Bank to connect with GC. The trains could even be kept mostly out of the way by stopping at Park Road on platform... 4 

[petey3801]

The outbound platform at Yeerongpilly is bi-directional, so it is possible to get from Tennyson to Y'pilly, just need to use the outbound platform instead. Also possible to head north from the outbound platform.

Once on the DG at Yeerongpilly, it is not possible to get back on to the suburban lines until South Brisbane. Now that platform 4 at Park Road is operational again, it might be alright, but best idea would be to use the outbound platform at the 'pilly and use the subs from there.

Tennyson platform is still partially there. The eastbound platform is still in place, the westbound platform has been partially demolished due to a fire ant problem (by what I have been told), and is in no way fit for passenger use at this stage. (The platform that is.. the track is still fine).

As for using the old Airport station on the Doomben line, the tracks are still electrified up to Eagle Farm station and it is possible to head up there on suburban stock. Only problem is getting someone up there who is qualified for the route from Doomben to Eagle Farm. When I was in training, we tried to get up there when we were out at Doomben one day, but Control said no, so that was the end of that. Have heard a few other groups managed to go for a trundle up there though at a later stage. By what I understand, there isn't much left of the platform building etc., although the platform itself is still in place, so wouldn't take that much to get it back in to use (in comparison to some other projects, anyway!). Main problem I can see with using it will be turnaround time and whether there will be enough of it out there. Could use turnback drivers though, if there is 3 or 4 mins avail. But it should be a fairly cheap, easy extention to the network to do, really.

[HappyTrainGuy]

The station building was demolished in may either last year or the year before. The platform itself might also be warped/cracked too from what I recall. A level crossing would have to be installed to the north.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Only 2 electrified tracks go through Doomben. The 'third' track is a shunting and the Hamilton Branch line. Sorta similar to Shorncliffe Station having 3 tracks with 1 platform.

[dancingmongoose]

Regarding Eagle Farm, current turnaround at Doomben is 12 minutes, Eagle Farm is at 2 or at absolute worst 3 minutes from Doomben, and it's just a fairly gentle curve, so even at 3 minutes between stations that's still a 6 minute turnaround, double than at Richlands, although it is no longer the terminus. I would fully support extending Doomben services to Eagle Farm provided the electrification is still there and has enough patronage to warrant it, though as has been mentioned, the station building doesn't exist and it hasn't seen any passenger service, and therefore maintenance, in over 20 years, so who knows what else would need fixing.

Back on Tennyson, I wouldn't have a problem if trains ran express Park Road to Corinda to be perfectly honest, it's utilising the connections that the line provides that's the main thing imo, but that being said trains stopping at Tennyson would be a bonus. And if there's only one platform that can be used, that allows trains both to and from Corinda to use just one track, freeing up the other track (provided that's possible regarding the situation SurfRail mentioned) for freight trains to continue unobstructed. Win-win.

[STB]

As an ex transport worker, it's "turnback" (a rail term), not "turnaround" (a bus term)!

Re: Tennyson, I think frankly forget it.  QR has been quite clear that they are sectorising the network and clearing out any wayward train paths in doing so, putting Tennyson back in just simply uses up a few train paths (for each Tennyson train - remember the crossovers at Yeerongpilly and using Corinda station) that could be used by any Ipswich, Gold Coast or Beenleigh train.  Tennyson is quite low density anyway and is sandwiched between Corinda and Yeerongpilly.  Route 104 I think does quite well to service that area, with the Tennis being serviced by Yeerongpilly station.

Re: Eagle Farm, there was an idea hatched many years ago to reopen and move the current Eagle Farm station further east with an interchange set up to align with the Australia Trade Coast project, but that was dependent on Airport One being viable at the time, which I think they have determined that it isn't viable.  Unless there is future development around the Bunour/Pinkenba area, then I don't think it's all that worthwhile spending thousands for a small benefit.  Route 303 services that area fairly well, and comes into Doomben station to link with the train.

I think what I'm saying, is sometimes, yes there might be a railway there, but there are multiple ways to service it, without spending thousands that could be used elsewhere.

[red dragin]

Eagle farm: Did the ARHS Christmas run with a ride to Shorncliffe & around the Pinkenba balloon loop. Staff worked at doomben and back although signalled till the end of the wires.

No building at eagle farm, platform overgrown with grass. Very low track speed for the steam train from doomben (~20kph) but the driver possibly didn't bother to accelerate for the bit between collecting the staff and the end of the wire.

Tennyson: IMO - isn't this a situation where the feeder based bus system would be better? It's only a short piece of track.

[James]

Firstly - Park Road Platform 4. Thank goodness that was finally done! Sure, it wasn't the be all and end all, but it is great to finally be using that piece of infrastructure. Park Road will now truly become a significant interchange hub.

----

Tennyson - I understand why people want to see this line brought back, but the fact of the matter is, demand for a rail service is low. Remember, trains are capable of carrying 500 people per 3-car set. There is little demand for such a service outside services for school kids (which isn't really an issue, now that the Tennyson line has been extinct since 2011 and people are used to its non-existence).

Tennyson station shouldn't be re-opened - the station is in a pretty ordinary location to start with, with the Tennyson Tennis Centre closer to Yeerongpilly, and the only other pax generators being low-density housing and some offices/light industry. A cross-town bus link, however, needs to be far better provided. The 104 actually provides somewhat reasonable connections at this point in time (8 minutes Ips-104 and 5 minutes 104-CP and 5 mins CP-104 and 5 mins 104-Ips) - I think the big issue with this service is:
1. Span of hours - this cross-town route runs from 6am - 6pm with no additional peak services and doesn't exist on weekends. Span of hours needs to be seriously improved.
2. Frequency - route needs to be made more frequent, at least at peak hour. Frequency could be increased by cutting off the Yeerongpilly - Park Road side of things (I'd approach this with caution though, thanks to the nice connection it gives with the Cleveland line/will encourage the massive steam iron which is required of the 105).
3. Lack of advertising/demand - The easy accessibility of motorways (namely the inner Ipswich motorway for mid-suburban radial trips, and the Logan motorway for longer trips) makes competing with the car on this stretch very difficult, especially with the lack of rail feeders/other cross-town routes.

----

Eagle Farm - Why are we even discussing this? Go look at the station in Google Maps. It is in the middle of an industrial estate and a mere 850m from Doomben station. In fact, to further this, why are we even talking about keeping the Doomben line as part of the suburban network? Either make it LRT, or if freight still need it, rip out one track and turn it into a bare-bones busway (or something along those lines) feeding Eagle Junction station, and extend to the Portside development. I don't see why we want to send buses into industrial estates. They have great peaky demand, but aside from that you might as well be running a bus through farmland.

In the mean time, just send a bus service through there. One that ACTUALLY CONNECTS with Doomben trains too - all of them. Would not be difficult to do, could even go to the TradeCoast depot and be made up primarily of dead-running buses.

Regarding Eagle Farm, current turnaround at Doomben is 12 minutes, Eagle Farm is at 2 or at absolute worst 3 minutes from Doomben, and it's just a fairly gentle curve, so even at 3 minutes between stations that's still a 6 minute turnaround, double than at Richlands, although it is no longer the terminus.

I have to correct this - there were actually two trains at Richlands for that three-minute time period, meaning there was a 33-minute turnback window. The reason for this was to allow for Springfield extension (now there is a 15-minute turnback at Springfield Central - perfect!). The same thing happened at Varsity Lakes prior to the new timetable being introduced.

[minbrisbane]

I agree, as much as I'd love to see Eagle Farm re-opened foam-wise, James is right - there's absolutely no reason for it.

I'd much prefer to see the line to Hamilton repurposed.

[#Metro]

Park Road well done QR. Ingenious solution to the problem as well.

Tennyson - I agree with James. Perfectly good station (Yeronga) at walking distance. Connections already done by bus 104, and a reorganised bus network could do the job just as well or better.

Doomben - a clear decision for the Doomben line has now been made with the 20 Jan timetables and they are keeping and upgrading service on that line. It is much simpler and better now and this line will be one to watch. It also provides useful capacity for the inner section of the rail network (along with the Airport line) which is IMMENSELY useful when considering a recast bus network feeding rail interchanges such as Albion.

Eagle Farm - there is factory and estate development through there so there may be merit, however factory demand tends to be peaky moreso than say an activated residential place like portside. One can choose to have Eagle Farm or Portside but not both.

My view is that the line should be extended through to Portside with the train station placed on Kingsford Smith Drive / Remora Rd as the scheduling of high frequency buses through this area is geometrically challenging. This would allow a nice 30 minute all day train service to be supplied at absolute minimal extra cost and accelerate development (which the QLD Gov't could claw back in existing land taxes, business taxes and other fees and charges on development within this area).

[dancingmongoose]

Wasn't converting Doomben to LRT part of the Cleveland solution?

Longterm what this former link is all about is quick and easy connection from West to inner southern and CL lines and Busway's and vice versa

That's the point I was originally making. Currently to get from Oxley to South Brisbane I would need to catch a train to Corinda, hope to catch the hourly 104 to Park Road, then change to another bus or train. Or train to Roma St and change trains to go back the way I came even though there is direct rail that could do the job quicker and easier. It would be perfectly fine to run express Park Road - Corinda imo.

[James]

Re: Eagle Farm, wires are to the station, but the station is located on the western end of the industrial estate and this does limit somewhat the usefullness. I think sourcing a five hundred metres of 2nd hand over head and poles and running the O/H up towards the Gateway may provide an oppurtunity. But if there is greater benefit running to Portside, so be it, but train would have to cross KS Drive to be worthwhile, an expensive challenge + Rebuilding of track layout at Doomben Junction. Ironically the there is a ridicolous amount of O/H infrastructure in the Doomben to Eagle Farm station area and more than enough could be reclaimed and recycled to run probably a dual track link to Port side.

Conversion of Doomben to LRT is I think point less. Expensive excercise to bring in another rail technology to achieve little more than could happen now at far lower cost. It would only run to Eagle Junction so whats the benefit? Doomben line can support 30min timetable, it wouldn't take much to support 15min. The only reason I could see LRT working is if you would form a loop from Eagle Farm, Bunour, south and under Gateway andup through what will one day be development at Portside and back to Doomben. Alot of money for limited return.

Dedicated busway to Eagle Junction is probably not a bad idea, but I'd prefer to see trains.

I have rels who live near Clayfield station and theyd on't even bother looking at Doomben line timetable, they drive to Eagle Junctiona and go from there. No trains Sat PM and Sun, week days in evening and 1hr service when running and so clsoe to Nth main line, why bother. Its the chicken and the egg story and perhaps a 30min timetable in peak will bring more chickens.

The issue with the Doomben line is it will never fill a train in peak hour. And in peak, for every Doomben service that goes through, someone cops a frequency decrease (whether it be Shorncliffe, Airport or Ferny Grove) or a reduction in rolling stock. Having trains (which can carry 500 people) running on such a short line is not an efficient use of rolling stock. Long-term, we are better off going 8tph Shorncliffe, 10tph Ferny and 6tph Airport in the peaks (yes, I am aware there are currently infrastructure constraints but those will be fixed in the future), and running all trains on the mains express.

That's the point I was originally making. Currently to get from Oxley to South Brisbane I would need to catch a train to Corinda, hope to catch the hourly 104 to Park Road, then change to another bus or train. Or train to Roma St and change trains to go back the way I came even though there is direct rail that could do the job quicker and easier. It would be perfectly fine to run express Park Road - Corinda imo.

The 104 is half-hourly.

The issue is that adding Tennyson trains takes up rolling stock which can be better utilised and in peak, valuable train paths across the Merivale Bridge. And also, see my issue I talk about above - it would be overkill for the short line. Sending any Springfield/Ipswich trains via Tennyson breaks sectorisation, so you would be forced to change at Corinda. Assuming there would be a train waiting there (with 5 minute transfer penalty), it would get people to their destination around 5-10 minutes earlier. Unless this operated at 15 minute frequency, the benefit would be wiped out for many passengers due to a transfer penalty.

I too would value a Gold Coast train if it ran express Roma Street to Beenleigh stopping at Indro/Altandi/Loganlea, but the fact is that would break sectorisation, cause delays and eat up train paths. We can't all get super-amazing fast rail services everywhere operating on express patterns.

[#Metro]

The issue with the Doomben line is it will never fill a train in peak hour. And in peak, for every Doomben service that goes through, someone cops a frequency decrease (whether it be Shorncliffe, Airport or Ferny Grove) or a reduction in rolling stock. Having trains (which can carry 500 people) running on such a short line is not an efficient use of rolling stock. Long-term, we are better off going 8tph Shorncliffe, 10tph Ferny and 6tph Airport in the peaks (yes, I am aware there are currently infrastructure constraints but those will be fixed in the future), and running all trains on the mains express.

Lines such as Doomben and Airport provide extra capacity on the inner section that will allow interchange with buses at Albion etc comfortable and possible. Services running half hourly during the day is a major increase in service and in time I am confident this will extend to Portside where it is difficult to get a good bus route in all day.

No conversion of the Doomben line is now necessary and the level crossing at Kingsford Smith Drive is already there, it just needs to be wired up to power supply.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Doomben won't be converted to anything as long as its still listed as a valid freight line with businesses still under/open to contract.

[Golliwog]

From memory at one of the CRGs returning services the Tennyson line was mentioned and the response was basically that it blocks a slot on either one or both the Ipswich and Bennleigh/GC lines. I think a rail service that shuttles between Corinda and Y'pilly will always be much faster than a 104 purely due to the nature of having a reserved corridor but a bus service would be able to pick up more local passengers. The purpose of the rail service though would be as described: to allow pax form the IPS line to transfer easily and quickly to a Beenleigh/GC/Cleveland line service.

I think if you were serious about providing ANY link via rail, you'd want to have a standalone platform for the Tennyson service at both ends to prevent it blocking a service on either line, but if you were serious about providing for the connections, you would want to run it as far as Park Rd to allow one change between all 3 of the Beenleigh, GC and Cleveland services. I can't see either of these happening or being a priority as much as I would like to see it.

[James]

Lines such as Doomben and Airport provide extra capacity on the inner section that will allow interchange with buses at Albion etc comfortable and possible. Services running half hourly during the day is a major increase in service and in time I am confident this will extend to Portside where it is difficult to get a good bus route in all day.

No conversion of the Doomben line is now necessary and the level crossing at Kingsford Smith Drive is already there, it just needs to be wired up to power supply.

Its nothing that the Airtrain/extra Shorncliffe trains won't be able to deal with. Auchenflower only gets a maximum of 10tph in core peak, yet Albion gets something like 30tph and "extra capacity" is still needed? I can't imagine any routes which would be fed into the railway line past Eagle Junction. You might as well just send a bus service to RBWH/Bowen Hills. What routes go near Albion station which would feed any more than around 80 pax/hr into the network?

Also, long-term, while a Doomben train allows the mains to go express Bowen Hills - Eagle Junction, a Shorncliffe train allows the mains to run express Bowen Hills - Northgate - a much larger time saving. Of course, this is all theoretical - right now, only the former is really possible, and for the complexity it would introduce, you question whether it is worth the 1-2 minutes saved anyway. You'd save more time by showing videos on the platforms at Central on how to board efficiently and quickly and thus, reduce dwells at all stations.

Doomben won't be converted to anything as long as its still listed as a valid freight line with businesses still under/open to contract.

This is why I suggest busway. Rip up one track and put down two lanes of busway. Single track can continue to run beside busway for freight purposes (it isn't a very active freight line anyway).

[#Metro]

Its nothing that the Airtrain/extra Shorncliffe trains won't be able to deal with. Auchenflower only gets a maximum of 10tph in core peak, yet Albion gets something like 30tph and "extra capacity" is still needed? I can't imagine any routes which would be fed into the railway line past Eagle Junction. You might as well just send a bus service to RBWH/Bowen Hills. What routes go near Albion station which would feed any more than around 80 pax/hr into the network?

It will be very useful. I can imagine it. The introduction of Kippa-Ring services will be Godsend for the entire northern suburbs because suddenly there will be high frequency services to connect buses to.

[James]

Its nothing that the Airtrain/extra Shorncliffe trains won't be able to deal with. Auchenflower only gets a maximum of 10tph in core peak, yet Albion gets something like 30tph and "extra capacity" is still needed? I can't imagine any routes which would be fed into the railway line past Eagle Junction. You might as well just send a bus service to RBWH/Bowen Hills. What routes go near Albion station which would feed any more than around 80 pax/hr into the network?

It will be very useful. I can imagine it. The introduction of Kippa-Ring services will be Godsend for the entire northern suburbs because suddenly there will be high frequency services to connect buses to.

(I assume this remark is in relation to capacity at Albion).

Yes, for connections further up the line and for passengers further up the line. Albion already has high frequency services, all you are doing is adding even more high frequency/high frequency on weekends. We are talking about Albion/Wooloowin here, not Zillmere or Kippa-Ring. I would argue that a passenger boarding at Albion does not deserve a seat. I board 428s at my local stop to go to UQ. The trip takes 5 minutes and is far less smooth than a rail trip, and I have to stand for the whole trip most of the time. But it isn't a long time. Pax from Wooloowin will likely stand for no more than 10 minutes in a worst-case scenario.

Yes, it is always nice to get a seat (in fact I always said the day will be a good day when I got a seat on the bus!), but you don't need one (unless you are infirm, in which case one should be given up for you).

[HappyTrainGuy]

Its nothing that the Airtrain/extra Shorncliffe trains won't be able to deal with. Auchenflower only gets a maximum of 10tph in core peak, yet Albion gets something like 30tph and "extra capacity" is still needed? I can't imagine any routes which would be fed into the railway line past Eagle Junction. You might as well just send a bus service to RBWH/Bowen Hills. What routes go near Albion station which would feed any more than around 80 pax/hr into the network?

It will be very useful. I can imagine it. The introduction of Kippa-Ring services will be Godsend for the entire northern suburbs because suddenly there will be high frequency services to connect buses to.

To bad the pathetic bus network would more than likely still be hourly that already connects with a train service when they arrive at the station making the high frequency service for those pointless. Not to mention that's if their bus is still even operating when they get off the train or if it even has a bus going past their station

Honestly, I don't expect to see Lawnton-Virginia taking up a huge influx of passengers with the added frequency. There will be a small gain but nothing major. I'm keen to see the impact on the park and rides however. The bus network just isn't there to really get behind and support it. As it is now most buses north of Strathpine already connect to and from a train service. 100% of the time a train will connect after getting off a bus and 50% of the time a bus will connect after getting off a train (25% of the time when MBRL is up). Access is also another concern especially at night with QR lighting up the stations like Suncorp stadium while local councils light up the surrounding walkways, footpaths and roads leading to and from the stations as if their the local road between Harrisville and Boonah.

Lawnton-Strathpine has hourly bus routes during peak hour. Bald Hills relies too much on the Park and Riders with the closest bus running a good distance from the station and the 327 doesn't even operate in peak direction during peak hour. Carseldine-Geebung doesn't want its bus network modified that would give more incentive to use PT. Sunshine doesn't have a feeder bus. Virginia is always going to be limited by its location and access. Most of the patronage would be coming from the Petrie-Kippa Ring section. HB already has a lot of its network set up for the railway line. Its frequency and span of hours will be a key point.

[Gazza]

I don't really see the point of spending money to rip up infrastructure and try and squeeze a busway in.

Cheapest solution would be a 5th, terminating platform at EJ, surely?

[SurfRail]

I can't accept that there is any real issue running 2 trains to Doomben, 4 trains to Shorncliffe and 4 trains to the Airport and 10-ish trains to Ferny Grove.  Nothing wrong with running through and terminating at Roma Street 2/3.

[minbrisbane]

I can't accept that there is any real issue running 2 trains to Doomben, 4 trains to Shorncliffe and 4 trains to the Airport and 10-ish trains to Ferny Grove.  Nothing wrong with running through and terminating at Roma Street 2/3.

Me too, at this stage of the game it'd kill the line in my opinion.

[techblitz]

^ ferny grove needs more tph than shorncliffe line due to its residential/commercial demographics eg: services lutwyche rd bus corridor to chermside via windsor,busy statons like alderley,mitchy,ferny grove,brookside shopping centre (lots of foot traffic between mitchy station/brookside)

shorncliffe isnt quite up there yet...perhaps time will tell...but the ferny grove line will grow at a much faster pace....

[James]

^ ferny grove needs more tph than shorncliffe line due to its residential/commercial demographics eg: services lutwyche rd bus corridor to chermside via windsor,busy statons like alderley,mitchy,ferny grove,brookside shopping centre (lots of foot traffic between mitchy station/brookside)

shorncliffe isnt quite up there yet...perhaps time will tell...but the ferny grove line will grow at a much faster pace....

If you add Albion/Wooloowin/Toombul/Nundah figure to the Shorncliffe line (i.e. Running Cab/KR trains express in peak) the Shorncliffe line's patronage is similar to that of the Ferny Grove line.

But yes, the Shorncliffe line north of Northgate will grow a lot slower than the Ferny Grove line patronage wise.

[Derwan]

Shorncliffe Line can't do better than 4tph anyway - thanks to the single track section and single platform at Shorncliffe.

[HappyTrainGuy]

^ ferny grove needs more tph than shorncliffe line due to its residential/commercial demographics eg: services lutwyche rd bus corridor to chermside via windsor,busy statons like alderley,mitchy,ferny grove,brookside shopping centre (lots of foot traffic between mitchy station/brookside)

shorncliffe isnt quite up there yet...perhaps time will tell...but the ferny grove line will grow at a much faster pace....

HEY! Someone's forgetting about the Boondall Wetlands...... ummmmmm........ There's that 2 story house at Deagon........ ummmmmmmm..... oh the 314