Redlands (Eastern) Region Changes

[STB]

Confirmed implementation date of 20th January 2014 in line with the train timetable changes.

http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/seq-bus-network-review-2013/redlands?utm_source=translink&utm_medium=primary-tile&utm_content=redlands&utm_campaign=seq-bus-network-review

Individual route changes

Route   Description   Changes
240   Capalaba to Wynnum   No alignment changes will be made to this route, only minor timetable changes.

242   Wakerley to Carindale   No alignment changes will be made to this route, only minor timetable changes.

243   Capalaba park 'n' ride to Brisbane City   
This route will now start and finish at Capalaba park 'n' ride. It will no longer service Thorneside station, Ferry Rd, Rickertt Rd, Chelsea Rd and Molle Rd. Passengers using this service will now have access to park 'n' ride facilities as well as more direct services connecting them to the CBD.

To improve on time running, this route will no longer service bus stop 108 on George Street and stop 107 on William Street. Passengers travelling on this service will still be able to access the three other CBD bus stops serviced by this route.

250   Redland Bay to Carindale via Victoria Point, Cleveland and Capalaba   
The peak service for this route will continue to operate Redland Bay to City via Victoria Point, Cleveland, Capalaba and Carindale.

To improve service efficiency, off peak and weekend services will now terminate at Carindale Shopping Centre after travelling from Redland Bay via Victoria Point, Cleveland and Capalaba. Passengers wishing to travel off-peak to the CBD can transfer at Carindale on to several high frequency services.

251   Ormiston to Brisbane (via Alexandra Hills)   This route will now extend to the McCartney Street loop at Ormiston Point, providing a peak service to Ormiston Point passengers.

To improve on time running, this route will no longer service bus stop 108 on George Street and stop 107 on William Street. Passengers travelling on this service will still be able to access the three other CBD bus stops serviced by this route.

252   Capalaba to Cleveland (via Ormiston and Alexandra Hills)   No alignment changes will be made to this route, only minor timetable changes.

253   Capalaba to Thorneside   The 5.30am weekday service departing Thorneside station will be removed to provide resources for areas of greater demand. Passengers are able to access bus services from Capalaba or rail services from Thorneside.

254   Capalaba to Wellington Point   A Sunday service between Birkdale station and Capalaba will be introduced to improve weekend connections to local train services. This service will run every two hours between 10am and 6pm.

255   Cleveland to Wellington Point   This route will be extended to service Birkdale station and Wellington Point shops, and realigned to service Freeth Street, Ormiston and Queen Streets in Cleveland. These changes will continue to provide public transport options to a number of retirement villages while providing students of Wellington Point State High School and Redlands College with access to these schools.
Saturday services will be reduced to a two-hourly frequency to better match customer demand and provide resources for busier parts of the network.

256   Cleveland Point to Redlands Hospitals (via Cleveland)   This route will be removed due to low patronage and to provide resources for areas of greater demand. Passengers in Lorikeet Street will be able to access the Redlands Hospital by route 272 which will have increased frequency to every 30 minutes.

258   Toondah Harbour to Cleveland   No alignment changes will be made to this route, only minor timetable changes.

259   Cleveland to Ormiston   This route is being removed due to low patronage and to provide resources for areas of greater demand. Ormiston Point passengers will be able to access route 251 peak services and residents in Freeth and Queen Street will have access to the realigned route 255.

260   Capalaba to QEII Hospital   This route will be realigned to travel along Gardner Road and onto the South East busway at Eight Mile Plains, improving service reliability and providing the first all-day service for residents of Rochedale Estate.

Weekend service operating hours will be reduced so resources can be reallocated to areas of greater demand. Customers on Mount Gravatt-Capalaba Road will be able to use route 180 to reach their destination.

This route will also no longer operate on public holidays due to low demand.

261   Mackenzie to City   No change.

262   Capalaba to QEII Hospital   This route will be realigned to travel along Gardner Road and onto the South East busway at Eight Mile Plains, improving service reliability and providing the first all-day service for residents of Rochedale Estate. Weekend operating hours will be reduced so resources can be reallocated to areas of greater demand. And this service will no longer operate on public holidays, when local shops are closed. Customers on Mount Gravatt-Capalaba Road will be able to use route 180 to reach their destination.

263   Capalaba to Sheldon (Avalon Rd)   No alignment changes will be made to this route, only minor timetable changes.

264   Capalaba to Alexandra Hills (via Maridale Park)   No alignment changes will be made to this route, only minor timetable changes.

265   Maridale Park to Brisbane   This route will no longer service Brosnan Drive and instead be re-aligned to service Frost Street and Callaghan Way.

To improve on -time running, this route will no longer service bus stops 108 on George Street and stop 107 on William Street. Passengers travelling on this service will still be able to access the 3 other CBD bus stops serviced by this route.

266   Capalaba to Alexandra Hills   No alignment changes will be made to this route, only minor timetable changes.

267   Alexandra Hills to Brisbane   To improve on time running, this route will no longer service bus stops 108 on George Street and stop 107 on William Street. Passengers travelling on this service will still be able to access the 3 other CBD bus stops serviced by this route.

268   Capalaba to Sheldon (Parkwood Dr)   This route will be removed due to duplication, the availability of alternative options and to reallocate resources to areas of greater demand. Passengers who use this route will be able to access key locations serviced by alternative routes 263, 265 and 280.

270   Victoria Point Jetty to Carindale   Service frequency and operating hours will be reduced in the evening to better match passenger demand. Monday to Friday and Saturday services will now operate every two hours after 5.30pm.

272   Victoria Point to Cleveland (via Thornlands and Redland Hospitals)   Service frequency will be improved to better match passenger demand and provide better access to the Redland Hospital. Monday to Friday services will operate 7am to 5.30pm, Saturday services 9am to 5pm and Sunday services from 9am to 4pm.

273   Thornlands to Brisbane (via Redland Bay Rd)   To improve on time running, this route will no longer service bus stop 108 on George Street and stop 107 on William Street. Passengers travelling on this service will still be able to access the 3 other CBD bus stops serviced by this route.

274   Victoria Point Jetty to Cleveland via Thornlands   Service frequency and operating hours will be reduced in the evening to better match passenger demand. Monday to Friday services will operate 6.30am to 6.30pm, Saturday services 7.30am to 5.30pm.

275   Thornlands to Brisbane (via Cleveland and Capalaba)   To improve on time running, this route will no longer service bus stops 108 on George Street and stop 107 on William Street. Passengers travelling on this service will still be able to access the 3 other CBD bus stops serviced by this route.

276   Victoria Point to Brisbane City (via Point Halloran and Eight Mile Plains)   To improve on time running, this route will no longer service bus stops 108 on George Street and stop 107 on William Street. Passengers travelling on this service will still be able to access the 3 other CBD bus stops serviced by this route.

277   Victoria Point to Point Halloran   No alignment changes will be made to this route, only minor timetable changes.

279   Victoria Point to Brisbane City (via Eight Mile Plains)   To improve on time running, this route will no longer service bus stops 108 on George Street and stop 107 on William Street. Passengers travelling on this service will still be able to access the 3 other CBD bus stops serviced by this route.

280   Point Talburpin to Garden City and Griffith University   Due to low patronage, and to make better use of resources, late night services and weekend hours of operation will be reduced.

281   Point Talburpin to Brisbane via Garden City   To improve on time running, this route will no longer service bus stops 108 on George Street and stop 107 on William Street. Passengers travelling on this service will still be able to access the 3 other CBD bus stops serviced by this route.

282   Victoria Point to Loganholme Bus Station (via Mt Cotton)   Due to low patronage, and to make better use of resources, the hours of operation for Monday to Saturday services will be reduced.

283   Redland Bay to Loganholme Bus Station (via Carbrook)   This route will be removed due to low patronage and to allow for reallocation of resources. Passengers may be able to use route 282 as an alternative for travel to Redland Bay Marina. School buses will continue to service the schools in the Carbrook area.

299   Rochedale to Griffith University, QEII Hospital and Brisbane Technology Park   This route will be adjusted to provide a more direct service from the Brisbane CBD to Brisbane Technology Park/Rochedale using the South East Busway to Eight Mile Plains. This route will no longer service Rochedale, McGregor, Nathan and Sunnybank. Customers will be able to use routes 130/140 to access Sunnybank and Griffith University, and routes 260/262 to reach Griffith University and QEII Hospital.

[STB]

My thoughts:

243 - Eh, no loss there, although it'll mean that I'll only have 2 ways of getting back instead of 3. 

250 - will probably end up being a bit confusing for passengers having two different variations of route 250, but at the same time no real need for it to go into the city in the off peak (hoping that BCC/BT fix the 200/222 same time departure Monday-Friday).

251 - In reality I've only ever seen one person board/disembark at the top end of Ormiston, guess she's very noisy and has been annoying the heck out of the Cleveland MP.  Not really any real net value sending it up there, but I guess it's not really that expensive either to do it.

253 - No problems with that 5:30am removal, always thought that was a tad too early.

254 - Sunday service welcomed, but only at 2hr frequency!  The trains run every half-hour!  Also, from my end I expect that connections between the 254 from Wellington Pt Shops to Birkdale Station to the train are going to be a bit dogged due to the new train timetable, but eh, I'll deal with that I think.

255 - Badly needed, never should've been truncated at Wellington Point.  Noticed patronage went to almost zero after that change.

256 - Sad to see that getting to Cleveland Point will require a taxi, but I guess not many people go up there, and if they do they tend to drive.

259 - Has been a rather empty service since it started, the experiment of having an Ormiston service has been done, and basically there is really only just one person catching the bus up there (see route 251)

260 - I really hope this goes to an all day service eventually, guess it won't be happening this time, and the 'first all day service to Rochedale Estate' isn't technically correct, as route 280 already passes through there, 7 days a week.  Route 180 may get a spike in university patronage, given my experience of going to/from uni on route 260 for a year back in 2010.  It turns out there's quite a lot of students living along the Mt Gravatt-Capalaba Rd corridor.

262 - Same thoughts as per route 260.  Really would like to see this upgraded to an all day route as well.

265 - Eh, not that concerned about it, Bronson Drive residents will have a bit of a walk though to route 265.

268 - No loss, really only services the caravan park and that's pretty much it.

270 - Really, again, 2hrly frequencies don't match demand, they just put people off from catching it in the first place.  IMO, TransLink really needs to review how they reduce services, across the board.  Think they better focus more on what the route services and the population density IMO and have a minimum frequency of an hourly service at the very least.

272 - No problems here, half hourly is better than hourly, and between routes 272 and 274, 272 gets the higher patronage purely for the hospital.

274 - See my thoughts on the 2hrly frequency (Route 270).  Geez, I hate that, no bus route in the world should be operating at that frequency, even if it gets low patronage, it'll just kill off any patronage it has already.

280 - Same thoughts as the other routes being reduced

282 - Again, same thoughts as previously mentioned on reduced services.

283 - no real loss, the caravan park won't have a service, but there's very little if any demand there.

299 - Eh, this route really only exists to kill off the dead running in reality.  Carries very little in my experience.

Peak hour routes - not sure why they are removing stops 107 and 108.  In the past those are the stops with some of the highest patronage, all government workers and university students.   Looks like those workers and students will get a longer trip by having to do the loop and walk down to Elizabeth St.

Overall - Not really an improvement, more of a trimming around the semi-bare trees that the Redlands already has with the current bus network.  Only real "win" (and I use that term loosely), is route 254 with Sunday services for the first time, and I suppose route 272 being upgraded to run half hourly.  Probably the worst of the changes in the outer regions in comparison. 

[nathandavid88]

I'd say they probably tie with Logan for the worst of the outer region changes. They are largely cost cutting with little additional benefit. You're right about 2 hour frequencies though, it's really stupid.

[STB]

Route maps are up, and I've noticed that they've somehow screwed up the route numbers to the actual drawn routes.  Route 263 for example is appearing as route 254 on the map!  Erm.  Also noticed it on the Moreton Bay Region maps as well.  The span of service and frequencies are also missing from the website, unlike the Ipswich and Sunshine Coast regions pages.

[SurfRail]

Route maps are up, and I've noticed that they've somehow screwed up the route numbers to the actual drawn routes.  Route 263 for example is appearing as route 254 on the map!  Erm.  Also noticed it on the Moreton Bay Region maps as well.  The span of service and frequencies are also missing from the website, unlike the Ipswich and Sunshine Coast regions pages.

Maybe they don't want a riot.

[longboi]

Route maps are up, and I've noticed that they've somehow screwed up the route numbers to the actual drawn routes.  Route 263 for example is appearing as route 254 on the map!  Erm.  Also noticed it on the Moreton Bay Region maps as well.  The span of service and frequencies are also missing from the website, unlike the Ipswich and Sunshine Coast regions pages.

Seem to be fixed now. At least for routes 263 and 254.

[STB]

Route maps are up, and I've noticed that they've somehow screwed up the route numbers to the actual drawn routes.  Route 263 for example is appearing as route 254 on the map!  Erm.  Also noticed it on the Moreton Bay Region maps as well.  The span of service and frequencies are also missing from the website, unlike the Ipswich and Sunshine Coast regions pages.

Seem to be fixed now. At least for routes 263 and 254.

Moreton Bay routes 693-699 aren't fixed yet though.

[techblitz]

the 299 missing QE2 prolly has to be done....it carries mostly air from tech park to nathan campus where 10 or so hop onboard and another 10 at griffith busway. Quite surprised at its low/low rating. Perhaps the outbound routes were suffering.

Hopefully with these new timetables there will be decent connections between the 240 and 262/260

[Fattious]

Strange that 261 is continuing to service the George/William Street Stop, whereas all other services are no longer servicing it.

I'm going to miss the opportunity to catch these direct services from Buranda busway to the government precient at the top of George.

[techblitz]

Did a tour of redlands region today to test out free travel on the ferries

11am... 262 as usual an air carrier max 4 pax between qe2 and capalaba.
1pm.. O/b 270 ex capalaba 14 pax and about 12 pax  ex vic point shops to marina on 280.
Ferries....
3pm.. expressed it from marina to griffith on 280...4 pax max.
1 hour trip from marina to the city via griffith 280 & 150...super stuff!
Rochedale estates is going to be big and definitely needs good bus services. Hopefully future residents take advantage of the services. Needs some more bus stops if possible?
Ideally placed and only 5-10 mins then its onto the busway.

[STB]

Did a tour of redlands region today to test out free travel on the ferries

11am... 262 as usual an air carrier max 4 pax between qe2 and capalaba.
1pm.. O/b 270 ex capalaba 14 pax and about 12 pax  ex vic point shops to marina on 280.
Ferries....
3pm.. expressed it from marina to griffith on 280...4 pax max.
1 hour trip from marina to the city via griffith 280 & 150...super stuff!
Rochedale estates is going to be big and definitely needs good bus services. Hopefully future residents take advantage of the services. Needs some more bus stops if possible?
Ideally placed and only 5-10 mins then its onto the busway.

Yeah, the Redlands region has traditionally always been a car heavy/public transport quiet area, probably due to the demographics of the area, and also probably because the Redlands has never really had much support to build the network.  The semi-rural setting of parts of the Redlands doesn't help either.

Personally I'd like to see some of those farms developed, and Cleveland to get some high density development happening - just without the silly shopping centres everywhere  you look, left right and centre as you find in Capalaba and Victoria Point.  Seriously, there are two Woolworths in Victoria Point, both across the road from each other in the two separate shopping centres!  And with all that heavy retail, comes heavy traffic.

[techblitz]

^  I think they are on the right track by developing as close as possible to Griffith uni/garden city and Rochedale estates (gardner rd) is perfectly placed for PT use. Good potential student population for this area which means the 280 will hopefully get its numbers up! I feel that the vision they have for this area...they will need to encourage walk-up traffic by building some more  stops.

Quite interesting how the 280 and 281 follow the same alignment after Griffith... yet....280 LOW LOW and 281 is HIGH HIGH.
Everytime I see the 281 at Buranda o/b its always packed. I wonder how many are still onboard after the uni. If theres heaps then its clearly the '1 seat trip from the cbd' popularity factor and this is by far the quickest way to get to Redland bay. 250 has nothing on it....which will soon make the trip to Redland bay slower off peak once the truncation starts. Im just wondering if there are actually any russel/Macleay island residents that use the 250 to the marina which is a near 2 hour trip? 

[STB]

^  I think they are on the right track by developing as close as possible to Griffith uni/garden city and Rochedale estates (gardner rd) is perfectly placed for PT use. Good potential student population for this area which means the 280 will hopefully get its numbers up! I feel that the vision they have for this area...they will need to encourage walk-up traffic by building some more  stops.

Quite interesting how the 280 and 281 follow the same alignment after Griffith... yet....280 LOW LOW and 281 is HIGH HIGH.
Everytime I see the 281 at Buranda o/b its always packed. I wonder how many are still onboard after the uni. If theres heaps then its clearly the '1 seat trip from the cbd' popularity factor and this is by far the quickest way to get to Redland bay. 250 has nothing on it....which will soon make the trip to Redland bay slower off peak once the truncation starts. Im just wondering if there are actually any russel/Macleay island residents that use the 250 to the marina which is a near 2 hour trip? 

The 281 normally has a 90% load from my experience after the university.  In fact, I know with the 279, you can leave the city with a full seated load and then have standees after Garden City (normally the first 279 can be like that).  So yes, there is an obvious 1 bus journey to the city popularity.  I remember years ago when I was at TL, we were actually having capacity issues on route 281 along Mt Cotton Road, with people being turned away from catching it, hence the 279 came on board to increase capacity and split the patronage, and now you have a full 15min frequency in peak hour between Victoria Point and the City via Mt Cotton Road.

I think the problem with the 280, is that because it's hourly, it makes it difficult for the Jane Doe of passengers to work out when they need to leave the city to make a good connection with route 280, inbound it's fine as you've got route 111s and 555s departing every 7-8mins at Eight Mile Plains (although Garden City is a much bigger destination for transfers).  Heading back though, you either have to ring TransLink or mentally calculate which bus to take and how long it will take, so you don't have to end up just missing the 280 and waiting another hour for the next one.  Route 250 takes that decision and calculation out of the mix as it runs to the city all day (until 20th January) and runs every half hour.

My experience with route 250 by the way, is that you tend to get more patronage in off peak than in peak (except between 3pm and 5pm) when you get a lot of early finishers and school students who pack the 250, but the early finishers don't have the option of getting the peak hour runs yet.  Carindale is probably the biggest destination, then the City second for route 250.  Outbound, Capalaba, Alexandra Hills (near the Red Shop and Alexandra Hills shops in particular), Thornlands and Victoria Point are all major destinations.  Between Victoria Point and Redland Bay, you tend to get the islanders coming back/going to the shops.

The bulk of the patronage is definitely in the morning and afternoon peaks, although it tends to be the stagnated patronage, ie: everyone knows each other, rather than growing patronage, from my experience.  In the southern Redlands, off peak, the bulk of the patronage tends to be between Victoria Point Shops and Redland Bay Marina, and in the northern Redlands, between Thornlands and Carindale.

The Redlands overall has a heavy commuter 9 to 5 demographic, and in off peak, it's dominated mostly by retirees/pensioners, the rest just drive.

[techblitz]

thanks for the insights STB 
Just noticed something interesting. The 680 is only slightly longer on travel time than the 250 

Now with the redlands ferries gocard integrated...wouldn't mind seeing translink do some promotional material for tourists on how to get out there quickly on the 280.They can experience the south east busway,scenic drive though Burbank,tingalpa reservoir,and of course the jetty,ferries.

travel options:

111 from roma st
150/140/130/135/160/ from qsbs
169 from UQ
555 from Elizabeth st
546/281 from ann st

So many ways to connect to the 280 from the city its not funny.I don't think the fact that its hourly should be any deterrant as it has the same frequency on weekends as the 250.

[James]

The Redlands overall has a heavy commuter 9 to 5 demographic, and in off peak, it's dominated mostly by retirees/pensioners, the rest just drive.

That can be said for a lot of the bus network in South East Queensland off the frequent network.

[STB]

thanks for the insights STB 
Just noticed something interesting. The 680 is only slightly longer on travel time than the 250 

Now with the redlands ferries gocard integrated...wouldn't mind seeing translink do some promotional material for tourists on how to get out there quickly on the 280.They can experience the south east busway,scenic drive though Burbank,tingalpa reservoir,and of course the jetty,ferries.

travel options:

111 from roma st
150/140/130/135/160/ from qsbs
169 from UQ
555 from Elizabeth st
546/281 from ann st

So many ways to connect to the 280 from the city its not funny.I don't think the fact that its hourly should be any deterrant as it has the same frequency on weekends as the 250.

There is a difference, it goes to the city.  Route 250 on weekends actually tends to get standing loads in the middle of the day, with the majority getting on/off at Carindale.  So I think what's happening, is that people aren't transferring, they are just heading to the stop when they see that it's almost time for route 250 to depart.

[STB]

They have finally uploaded the span of service and frequency onto the TransLink website for the Eastern Region changes, and I must say, I'm not too impressed by it, in fact it seems like a step backwards to what we have currently, and that was a massive step backwards to what was worked on and implemented when TransLink was really working hard on redeveloping the regions properly back in the mid-late 00s.  This is in terms of bus-rail connections.  Back in the mid-late 00s, TransLink worked hard on getting the connections right, and had solid connections between bus and rail, and bus to bus (although a choice would be made if the bus would connect with rail moreso than bus, or vice versa, if one connection wouldn't work with the other).

I'm currently going through the span of service where it is obvious that the departure times are off Capalaba, using the current run time between start and finish.

For the moment, I'm working with route 254 on a Saturday.  Now, it can be safely assumed that the first departure based on the span of service off the website, is at 8:12am ex Capalaba to Wellington Point, using the current run times, that arrives at Birkdale Station at 8:28am, giving a 20min wait at Birkdale Stn for the 8:48am train (Rte 254 arrives at 8:28am, train departs 8:48am).  Currently the 254 arrives at :26 on the hour at Birkdale Stn with the train departing at :30 to the city, ie: a 4min connection.

For passengers along Birkdale Rd east of Birkdale stn, route 254, I'm predicting will arrive at :52 on the hour (this is with the assumption that the last service of the day on the weekend arrives at 6:08pm as per the span of service points out).  This means that the 254 misses the inbound train by 4mins.  Now there is route 255 which is being re-extended to Birkdale, so this might sort this out somewhat, which is what I'm hoping, however, that route runs every 2hrs in the new timetable on a Saturday, which again is worse than what it currently does with route 254, which gives a 10min connection at Birkdale Station on an hourly frequency on Saturday.  So if we're meant to catch route 255 instead of route 254, we'll get a good connection, but at a lesser frequency to what we have now.

I should mention that back in 2005, they actually put full draft timetables out before any implementation, and the focus on consultation was equally weighted on both the routes, the network structure and the timetables, which gave far better results and patronage shot up (NB: there were probably other factors like the fares, but that's only 1 piece of the puzzle).  TransLink back then as well focused heavily on getting solid connections, where the connection would be no more than 5mins between bus-train and bus-rail.  Fast forward to 2010 onwards, and TransLink don't seem to be interested in consulting on timetables anymore, nor getting good connections.  In the last changes in Feb 2011, we lost the pulse timetabling concept at key interchanges in the Redlands, whereby there used to be good connections between bus to bus at Capalaba for example, with connections being no more than 5mins between local routes and route 250, which then blew out to connections up to 20mins between route 250 and the local routes.  For passengers, that's very frustrating, and thinking about it now, I think it feeds the mindset that passengers want a 1 bus journey.

[Otto]

Bring back the 'Bayside Bullet' 621 and 622 combined half hourly express between Cleveland and City !. 
Patronage grew massively when this service was introduced during the mid 80's.

[STB]

Bring back the 'Bayside Bullet' 621 and 622 combined half hourly express between Cleveland and City !. 
Patronage grew massively when this service was introduced during the mid 80's.

Back in 2011, someone actually (in a group of 'friends'...sorry commuters - they get all 'lets have a bus friend club type thing out here, where they all know each other both during the bus journey and outside those times - urgh), came up to the Planners and demanded something like that surprisingly.   And I know years ago when I was at TL, we got requests for a direct non stop Cleveland to City bus service that ran all day everyday, which we knocked on the head at the time.

Having transfers is fine, as long as the connections aren't blown out which leaves you waiting at the station/interchange for longer than you expect to wait, ie: no more than 5-10mins tops.  Although I know in the Redlands, people out here are VERY anti-transfer, except for the grey hairs and the younger generations.  It's the middle class nine to fivers that HATE transferring, and make it well known in very vocal complaints whenever the TL guys come out here, as happened back in 2011.

Thank god I'll be moving out of here sometime between June to December next year (depending on finances), now that a production company I helped set up, has been set up and we're starting to work on projects to give us incomes over the next 6-12 months.  Once that happens, bye bye Redlands and you stuck up nine to five, white picket fence, I demand a bus to my workplace non stop commuters!

[James]

Back in 2011, someone actually (in a group of 'friends'...sorry commuters - they get all 'lets have a bus friend club type thing out here, where they all know each other both during the bus journey and outside those times - urgh), came up to the Planners and demanded something like that surprisingly.   And I know years ago when I was at TL, we got requests for a direct non stop Cleveland to City bus service that ran all day everyday, which we knocked on the head at the time.

Having transfers is fine, as long as the connections aren't blown out which leaves you waiting at the station/interchange for longer than you expect to wait, ie: no more than 5-10mins tops.  Although I know in the Redlands, people out here are VERY anti-transfer, except for the grey hairs and the younger generations.  It's the middle class nine to fivers that HATE transferring, and make it well known in very vocal complaints whenever the TL guys come out here, as happened back in 2011.

Thank god I'll be moving out of here sometime between June to December next year (depending on finances), now that a production company I helped set up, has been set up and we're starting to work on projects to give us incomes over the next 6-12 months.  Once that happens, bye bye Redlands and you stuck up nine to five, white picket fence, I demand a bus to my workplace non stop commuters!

I think all these people need to be told one thing:

If you choose to live far from the CBD, you should not expect a direct trip from your place of work to the CBD at ANY TIME during the day.

It is this 'I deserve a non-stop rocket from my home in Zone 6 to the CBD' which really ruins the bus network. Of course there are exceptions due to failure to develop rail in some areas, but there is nothing wrong with bus-bus transfers. If they are so bloody wingy, I encourage them to all hop in their cars, jump on to the SE Freeway and watch as the buses fly past at 90 km/hr while they sit in congestion.

The 9-to-5ers are the ones most against transferring as that is the only time they use the bus. Take 411 commuters. The reason they are so against transferring is because they already have reasonable peak frequency. They do not use the bus on Sunday (like I do), where hourly waits make you want to burn the timetable! Its the same thing here. 'Oooh there are 20 people on our bus when we reach the station, send our bus to the CBD!'

That being said, the transfers need to be done well. TL's actions in this review seems to indicate that they don't actually care about having decent connection times. This further decreases the farebox as people simply opt to drive to the station or not use PT at all.

[STB]

Back in 2011, someone actually (in a group of 'friends'...sorry commuters - they get all 'lets have a bus friend club type thing out here, where they all know each other both during the bus journey and outside those times - urgh), came up to the Planners and demanded something like that surprisingly.   And I know years ago when I was at TL, we got requests for a direct non stop Cleveland to City bus service that ran all day everyday, which we knocked on the head at the time.

Having transfers is fine, as long as the connections aren't blown out which leaves you waiting at the station/interchange for longer than you expect to wait, ie: no more than 5-10mins tops.  Although I know in the Redlands, people out here are VERY anti-transfer, except for the grey hairs and the younger generations.  It's the middle class nine to fivers that HATE transferring, and make it well known in very vocal complaints whenever the TL guys come out here, as happened back in 2011.

Thank god I'll be moving out of here sometime between June to December next year (depending on finances), now that a production company I helped set up, has been set up and we're starting to work on projects to give us incomes over the next 6-12 months.  Once that happens, bye bye Redlands and you stuck up nine to five, white picket fence, I demand a bus to my workplace non stop commuters!

I think all these people need to be told one thing:

If you choose to live far from the CBD, you should not expect a direct trip from your place of work to the CBD at ANY TIME during the day.

It is this 'I deserve a non-stop rocket from my home in Zone 6 to the CBD' which really ruins the bus network. Of course there are exceptions due to failure to develop rail in some areas, but there is nothing wrong with bus-bus transfers. If they are so bloody wingy, I encourage them to all hop in their cars, jump on to the SE Freeway and watch as the buses fly past at 90 km/hr while they sit in congestion.

The 9-to-5ers are the ones most against transferring as that is the only time they use the bus. Take 411 commuters. The reason they are so against transferring is because they already have reasonable peak frequency. They do not use the bus on Sunday (like I do), where hourly waits make you want to burn the timetable! Its the same thing here. 'Oooh there are 20 people on our bus when we reach the station, send our bus to the CBD!'

That being said, the transfers need to be done well. TL's actions in this review seems to indicate that they don't actually care about having decent connection times. This further decreases the farebox as people simply opt to drive to the station or not use PT at all.

They are wingy enough that on that day in 2011 when the Planners came out to talk and take feedback, I was on one of the peak hour rockets out of the city to Capalaba, and I sat up near the back of the bus, and overheard the commuters actually planning a way of attack to keep what they had already when they got off the bus and went over to the Planners.

When we arrived at Capalaba, they seriously (I'm not joking), surrounded the Planners as an angry mob and yelled at the Planners like no tomorrow at the top of their voices wanting firstly no changes to be made, and then demanding at the top of their voices to have non stop direct all day services from areas like Victoria Point, Cleveland and Capalaba.  Eg: A route from Capalaba non stop the city, a route from Cleveland non stop to the city, and a route non stop from Victoria Pt/Redland Bay non stop to the city all day everyday running at a high frequency.

And that's not the first time I've been out here that they've done this sort of behaviour.  They simply see the bus as a taxi service, and they all want their own bus to where they work in the city.  It's disgusting childish and selfish behaviour, but that's the type of commuters you get out in the Redlands, and I've been out here for 20+ years. 

You can see why I want out of this area.

[#Metro]

When we arrived at Capalaba, they seriously (I'm not joking), surrounded the Planners as an angry mob and yelled at the Planners like no tomorrow at the top of their voices wanting firstly no changes to be made, and then demanding at the top of their voices to have non stop direct all day services from areas like Victoria Point, Cleveland and Capalaba.  Eg: A route from Capalaba non stop the city, a route from Cleveland non stop to the city, and a route non stop from Victoria Pt/Redland Bay non stop to the city all day everyday running at a high frequency.

And that's not the first time I've been out here that they've done this sort of behaviour.  They simply see the bus as a taxi service, and they all want their own bus to where they work in the city.  It's disgusting childish and selfish behaviour, but that's the type of commuters you get out in the Redlands, and I've been out here for 20+ years.

Well well well. If someone else is paying 70% of the cost, why not take full and total advantage? It's not your money.
Funny how the huge response to a connected network all centred around disabled and crippled people, and yet not a single elderly group or disability body said anything during the TL review. More interesting is that most of the complaints using that reason came from perfectly able bodied people.

I take a very hard line because it is important to resist the tide of BS.

[STB]

FYI all, the timetables are now on the TransLink website, if you search on a route by route basis.  They don't seem to be linked yet from the SEQ Network Review Eastern Region Change Page...yet.

I'm currently going through route by route, interchange by interchange to have a look at the connections between bus to bus, bus to rail and bus to ferry.  Minimum connection is 5mins and no longer than 15mins in a transfer.  So far, while at first glance it looked good, when you really get down into the detail it seems TransLink has failed again and ignored good connections, as they used to back in 2005-2011.  On the upside, the span of service isn't that bad, while mostly the same with some reductions, some local routes seem to run until at least 7pm, at least where they don't have a peak hour rocket that services the same area, hence no need for a local service at that time of day.

[ozbob]

Thanks STB.  It needs a very careful and close analysis ..  thanks again!

[STB]

Thanks STB.  It needs a very careful and close analysis ..  thanks again!

No problems.  I'll post up the results and an overview of what I've found sometime later tonight or tomorrow.

[Set in train]

Thanks for your thoughts, I do agree with most and look forward to your further analysis. When time permits, I will publish my thoughts on the main routes and overall treatment of the region.

[techblitz]

southern star 29.01.14

[STB]

Was just about to post that Tech.

I've just taken a look at the timetables, and the 260 arrives at Mt Gravatt Busway station at :38 on the hour, while route 180 departs at :40 and :55 on the hour, so I would assume one would probably miss the one departing at :40, although given that it was redirected straight down Gardner Road, it would've been about 5mins quicker (less traffic and traffic lights), so I'm a little surprised that they kept the same timetable and just changed the timing points.  I can see why TransLink changed it, and I knew beforehand that the Wishart stop might become an issue, which is has.  Although I'm hesitant to not support TransLink on this decision given that Mt Gravatt Capalaba Road is quite well serviced by BUZ route 180 and other peak services that all run at a high frequency.  Peak hour shouldn't be a problem though (still additional travel time), but I'd dispute their issue with kids waiting around the interchange at Garden City, given that there will be buses departing every 5mins.

I've yet to travel along that route (my local route misses it at the interchange by 1min - sigh.), I'll have to get on board it next week and just make sure that it isn't running early.

Speaking of running early, route 255 that I've been catching quite a bit this week has at least 5-7mins too much fat in the timetable, forcing the drivers to pull over several times for a few minutes each time and drive slowly to stay on time.  I'll have to pass this onto TransLink.  The other routes from what I've noticed seem to be running fine so far, I'll plan a day next week to travel around the Redlands routes and see how things are going with the new timetables.

[minbrisbane]

I'd often catch the 260/262 along Mt Gravatt Capalaba road, the loadings were average from my observations.

Personally, saying the interchange isn't safe is a bit of a stretch, It's well lit with CCTV cameras and emergency help points.  Not to mention the transfer penalty is very low.

The ferrying kids around doesn't add up either, the route finishes well before the takeaways close. 

[STB]

I'd often catch the 260/262 along Mt Gravatt Capalaba road, the loadings were average from my observations.

Personally, saying the interchange isn't safe is a bit of a stretch, It's well lit with CCTV cameras and emergency help points.  Not to mention the transfer penalty is very low.

The ferrying kids around doesn't add up either, the route finishes well before the takeaways close.

The loadings are fairly average off peak, but during peak hour (especially the 7am and 8am from memory) are extremely busy runs.  I remember seeing standees on route 260 heading along Mt Gravatt Capalaba Road filled with university students - mostly international students from what I could tell.

I do agree that the transfer penalty is low and that they are making a mountain out of a molehill without understanding that route 180 operates a high frequency hence transfers aren't really a major issue (except perhaps if you head outbound and need to connect with route 260/262).

I think the most simple solution is to send route 260 down Gardner Road and send route 262 down Mt Gravatt Capalaba Road, and that would give an opportunity to run those routes hourly all day rather than what they do now.  Mt Gravatt Bus Service will also benefit in that regard by getting more funding from TL in the form of more KMs, which is something they often miss out on as they service such a small area, urban route wise.

[minbrisbane]

That's something I thought aswell, (routing 260/262 via Mt. G-C Rd / Gardner Road)

I don't know why the route is the way it is now, is it based on peak demand?

[techblitz]

Instead of just serving mackenzie it now serves the growing area around gardner rd.
Any uni students from mackenzie would probably get to uni quicker now that its via the busway and of course theres the still handy connection to the hospital and nathan campus.
I found it very handy catching it from tryon to capalaba as it connected decently with 241 out to wynnum. Speaking of tryon 


Taken 28th jan

Stb i think the main stinkup for the mackenzie shoppers at that center was the fact that they could get a direct trip..hop off...do the shopping or whatso and then catch it back home on its return run from qe2.
Im neutral on this issue and will wait to see if anything transpires.

[#Metro]

Stb i think the main stinkup for the mackenzie shoppers at that center was the fact that they could get a direct trip..hop off...do the shopping or whatso and then catch it back home on its return run from qe2.

[techblitz]

[STB]

The main stop which they are pointing out is 'Wishart East', which was being used as a defacto interchange with school kids, TAFE students and workers going to Mansfield.  I'm not sure really how critical Wishart Shopping Centre really is in reality, given that Garden City is far bigger and probably more worthwhile than Wishart.

The international students and other uni students living along that corridor can and should probably stick with route 180 and transfer to route 120 at Garden City.  I still think route 262 is viable going via Mt Gravatt Capalaba Road and route 260 to go via Gardner Road.  I certainly don't think they should both be going via Gardner Road, if you were to upgrade them as full time hourly routes.

You have to remember too that route 260/262 isn't two separate routes, but is treated as one large loop service.

[techblitz]

i think your suggestion STB...could have a good chance of actually happening. Depends on how influential ian walker is on the matter...
i understand TL wanting to hit 2 birds with 1 stone but while they have 2 seperate route numbers with a slight alignment difference so dont see why they cant just go with what your suggesting...

[Otto]

Still getting enquiries at Cultural Cent, Southbank, Mater from Pax asking about the 250 service.
Last night, one poor fella had been waiting at CC for 2 hours before asking me about the 250 to Capalaba. Luckily for him, I was on my last 222 trip so I just said, "Hop on, you won't make the last 250 @ Carindale, so I will take you in my car as I go through Capalaba on my way home "
This is not the first time I've done this either.
to TL

[STB]

Still getting enquiries at Cultural Cent, Southbank, Mater from Pax asking about the 250 service.
Last night, one poor fella had been waiting at CC for 2 hours before asking me about the 250 to Capalaba. Luckily for him, I was on my last 222 trip so I just said, "Hop on, you won't make the last 250 @ Carindale, so I will take you in my car as I go through Capalaba on my way home "
This is not the first time I've done this either.
to TL

Sorry to hear that, but I do support TL's changes to the 250.  There's no need to extend route 250 to the city full time when you have 2 high frequency services (200, 222) running until late at night.  All TransLink needs to do is to keep communicating it, although there will be a few that will miss the message regardless of what TL does.

[STB]

Coochie timetables don't work: residents
By Judith Kerr Feb. 6, 2014, 4 p.m.

THE Coochiemudlo Island ferry timetable could be altered to conform with TransLink bus timetables.

Ferry operator Gary Blackwell and island residents met with TransLink officials on Tuesday to discuss the proposal.

Complaints were lodged with Redlands MP Peter Dowling after TransLink changed bus timetables on January 20.

Those changes meant 270 and 274 buses leave Victoria Point jetty as ferries are docking and both buses leave within five minutes of each other.

That meant those who missed the bus were forced to wait 55 minutes for the next service.

The January timetable changes followed community consultation in November.

Coochiemudlo Island resident Anne Norman said asking the community was "pointless" as new timetables were printed before the meeting.

She circulated a petition asking TransLink to alter 270 and 274 timetables, adding half-hourly services for both.

"Buses used to leave the jetty seven to 10 minutes after each ferry arrived. Emails and faxes to the office of the Minister for Transport, Scott Emerson, have been ignored."

TransLink said it was forced to make the bus timetable change to route 274 so it would connect with Cleveland trains.

"Coochiemudlo Island ferry is not a TransLink service but we have made every effort to connect with ferries, where possible," a TransLink spokesman said.

Mr Dowling said it would be easier to change times for ferries than buses and suggested ferries leave Coochie at quarter to and quarter past the hour.

Ferry operator Garry Blackburn said he was willing to discuss options with TransLink.

http://www.baysidebulletin.com.au/story/2070703/coochie-timetables-dont-work-residents/?cs=213

[longboi]

Gary runs one little ferry back and forth all day, it's not complex...he just has to push it back 5-10 mins earlier.