North lakes Peak Prepaid Bullet Service

[techblitz]

Currently takes minimum 73 minutes for commuters from central - north lakes pm peak using the central - petrie/687 connection.
This is assuming no delays on rail and instant transfer onto the 687.

Heres the route : North lakes station - bruce highway - gateway motorway - southern cross way -east west arterial - airport link then from Lutwyche to city via icb or bowen bridge rd

Heres a general time in off-peak traffic inbound

21 mins from discovery drive to east-west arterial near toombul
7 mins from east west arterial to Lutwyche via airport link
10 mins approx. from Lutwyche to the city via icb or bowen bridge road
Total time 37 minutes.

Obviously in peak there will be time added but the question is how much? 10 minutes 20 minutes or 30 minutes?

Others are quite welcome to show what they are coming up with on gmaps 

Indirect route YES but i think this could pull out a timesaving of at least 15 minutes which would put it up there with the 546/142 over the 140/141. These in-turn are extremely busy/high value for money routes where by the 142 runs express from Adelaide st and usually does not stop until greenbank RSL Park and ride.

Worth noting that the 315 is pulling a stat as high value for money/very high patronage...and it runs hourly off-peak carrying quite light loads from 11 - 3pm. In short....commuters are finding this service the QUICKEST way to Redcliffe. I think there are passengers who are also searching for a quicker way to north lakes as well.

For any northside afficianados....let us know your thoughts!

[minbrisbane]

I don't think that's a good idea.  The gateway firstly is just not reliable enough to run a scheduled bus.  Second:  it'll be pointless once MRBL is running. 

Maybe a Prepaid service to Petrie only?

[James]

Case against a North Lakes Bullet Service.

1. The 315 runs on 20-30 minute peak frequency. It would not take much to fill up the service, remembering that it also stops at all express stops between the CBD and Deagon. By the time it reaches Deagon it could very well be barely half-full. 'Very High' utilisation indicates standing loads on five trips per week (or something along those lines) - all it takes is one AM peak load to be standing loads at Clayfield all week for the route to get this classification.

This does not mean the 315 does brilliantly all the way to Redcliffe. Similar situation for buses like the 427, 428 and 432. Just because they get 'Very High Patronage' it doesn't mean these routes should be BUZed or given more capacity along the whole route. Most of the time standing loads only start to occur past Indooroopilly.

2. P142/P546 are only successful for two reasons:
a) The inability to build a railway line out to Browns Plains, despite bus usage indicating that rail is needed now, not in 10-15 years when CRR is finally finished
b) A Park n Ride on one end - in other words, it is like the bus is terminating at a high-density apartment complex with hundreds of people living there who all use PT.
North Lakes station does not have a Park n Ride, and you are talking about sending this bus route into North Lakes itself. I think a better example to use in this case would be the 118. It uses a long, sub-optimal routing via motorways to provide a rocket service to Forest Lake. How does it perform? High value for money, low capacity utilisation. The TransLink bus review was trying to keep this route and just send it via Browns Plains to make it into the next P142, I think the thing should just be canned.

3. People living 15km+ from the CBD should not expect rockets to their doorstep. It is not a sustainable use of resources, is unreliable and is not the job buses were intended for. P142/P546 are successful because the traffic that exists there cannot be fed to rail effectively. Loganlea station is a huge deviation, Altandi interchange wipes out a lot of benefits of P142 and Ipswich/Richlands Line interchange would be circuitous and dumb.

By comparison, North Lakes has a rail station to feed to in the form of Petrie. A trip on an express train takes 37 minutes Petrie - Central, with the trip there from North Lakes bus station taking an extra 15. Add 5 minutes for interchange, you get 57 minute trip. Now if you made the train express Northgate - Bowen Hills stopping only at Eagle Junction, you could probably save another 4 minutes.

The trip using the route you suggest with no traffic (i.e. at the time I post this) is 35 minutes. The Gateway/Bruce Highway in the sections the route would take are congested and hence would make the route unreliable and slow. In addition, the issue with standing on bus trips more than 20km long would start to play in as a factor and restrict the capacity of the route. Overall, this would end up being another 'rocket-to-the-doorstep' bus route which would waste money. Just like the 118. If the 73 minute figure is true, there is probably more of a case for T3 lanes or better bus-rail co-ordination.

Maybe a Prepaid service to Petrie only?

That already exists, it is called a railway line with express trains.

MBRL is coming soon anyway, 3 years from now this argument will be a very moot one.

[#Metro]

I think it is a wonderful idea. I myself am a very privileged recipient of Brisbane Transport largesse with rocket to my front door at all hours of the day. I think every good citizen should get their own BT (or other operator) chauffeur and experience the delights and avail themselves of personal home rocket services.

[Old Northern Road]

Driving via the Gateway Motorway is the slowest way to get to the CBD during peak. The trip you propose would take well over an hour during peak.

[Old Northern Road]

By comparison, North Lakes has a rail station to feed to in the form of Petrie. A trip on an express train takes 37 minutes Petrie - Central, with the trip there from North Lakes bus station taking an extra 15. Add 5 minutes for interchange, you get 57 minute trip. Now if you made the train express Northgate - Bowen Hills stopping only at Eagle Junction, you could probably save another 4 minutes.

Express trains currently take 35 minutes from Petrie to Central. In the old timetable there were trains which only took 28 minutes.

[minbrisbane]

Maybe a Prepaid service to Petrie only?

That already exists, it is called a railway line with express trains.

MBRL is coming soon anyway, 3 years from now this argument will be a very moot one.

There is currently no rail from North Lakes to Petrie.  I of course meant a bus from NL to Petrie.*  You'll note I made a similar point about MBRL. 

*convert one of the existing routes to a prepaid service in the AM + PM only from NL - Petrie (until MBRL commences) in a similar manner to the 535.

[aldonius]

Express trains currently take 35 minutes from Petrie to Central. In the old timetable there were trains which only took 28 minutes.

Yes, and that's an argument to trim the fat in the rail timetable.

Agree completely with James.

[James]

There is currently no rail from North Lakes to Petrie.  I of course meant a bus from NL to Petrie.*  You'll note I made a similar point about MBRL. 

*a local prepaid service in the AM + PM only from NL - Petrie (until MBRL commences) in a similar manner to the 535.

Oh, I thought you meant Petrie - CBD. I had my BCC planner cap on. NL - Petrie pre-paid makes more sense, especially given on-board top-ups there can really slow services down.

Express trains currently take 35 minutes from Petrie to Central. In the old timetable there were trains which only took 28 minutes.

This is mainly because the timetables right now are so fat if they get much fatter they'll be eligible to star in The Biggest Loser. Maybe we can teach Australians to get on/off PT like Japanese do, rather than dawdling like most do now.

[STB]

I think it is a wonderful idea. I myself am a very privileged recipient of Brisbane Transport largesse with rocket to my front door at all hours of the day. I think every good citizen should get their own BT (or other operator) chauffeur and experience the delights and avail themselves of personal home rocket services.

I note the sarcasm in that post. 

Rocket from North Lakes to the City....no, rail is there for a reason (at Petrie, and soon to be North Lakes/Mango Hill), use it.