Taxpayer cost of bush train trip like flying to New York

[rtt_rules]

Here we go, the beginning of the end

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/taxpayer-cost-of-bush-train-trip-like-flying-to-new-york/story-e6freoof-1226575762598

Taxpayer cost of bush train trip like flying to New York

BUSH rail passengers could be flown to Rome, Paris or New York with spending money for far less than what they are currently costing Queensland taxpayers.

A damning document obtained by The Courier-Mail has revealed a massive blowout in the cost of subsidising rural passenger rail services as people continue to shun long-distance train travel.

Taken from a secret slideshow given to Department of Transport officials, the document reveals passengers travelling on the Westlander between Brisbane and Charleville are subsidised by $2236 each.

This compares to a subsidy cost for the route of $1589.63 in 2010. QR's other major rural passenger rail journey the Inlander, between Townsville and Mount Isa had a lower subsidy at $2038 per seat.

Direct taxpayer subsidies for bus and plane fares on the same routes were minuscule by comparison.

Bus passengers between Brisbane and Charleville get $11.63 while plane flights get $487, a quarter of the Traveltrain subsidy.

Concerns were raised during the Bligh government's tenure about the massive costs of continuing to operate the services, but the administration decided to continue.

But the growing costs amid tough financial conditions may force the Newman Government to act.

However the Government could face an internal backlash from rural LNP MPs who have long advocated that the services - which share the lines with growing freight traffic - be maintained.

One major lobby group, the Tourism and Transport Forum, has called for the services to be reviewed in consultation with local communities.

The forum's Trent Zimmerman said: "It is important that if the Queensland Government reviews these routes it does so in consultation with affected local communities. But it also must make sure these funds are used wisely and efficiently."

Katter's Australian Party leader Ray Hopper predicted the western routes would be abandoned by the Newman Government in favour of city-based subsidies.

"Queensland doesn't exist west of the Great Dividing Range for this Government," Mr Hopper said. "They will be chopped for sure. This is liberalism to its fullest."

The rail subsidy hike has been caused by services being maintained while passenger numbers have plummeted.

More than 175,000 fewer trips are being taken annually compared with a decade ago.

The subsidy, combined with ticket cost of the Brisbane to Charleville trip, now totals $2380, considerably more than a one-way flight to Rome, Paris, New York or London.

However, the 17-hour trip is marginally quicker than flying to any of the international destinations.

[ozbob]

Road transport the real cost is never mentioned and calculated.

Each year the CM highlights this.  I expect that the Westlander and possibly the Inlander are on borrowed time none the less. Aging rolling stock non DDA compliant, which I doubt will be replaced will be the final straw.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

12th February 2013

Future of inland passenger rail

Greetings,

The Couriermail has highlighted the cost of subsidies to the Westlander and Inlander passenger rail services.  No surprise.  The other modes are never costed properly in terms real infrastructure costs, nonetheless the aging passenger carriage fleet which is not DDA complaint are approaching the end of their service life, of around 50 years so far ... show me a bus or plane that is 50 years old that still provides regular long haul passenger services.

Other states are modernising their rural passenger services to take advantage of the rail networks that are in place. V/Line is an outstanding example of what can be achieved for the best outcomes for communities. Queensland needs to do similar.  Simply forcing people onto the ever worsening road system is not a good outcome.  More bulk freight needs to be put back onto rail. Queensland has a comprehensive rail network, it is ultimately much more cost effective and less traumatic to use it.

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

======================

Taxpayer cost of bush train trip like flying to New York
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/taxpayer-cost-of-bush-train-trip-like-flying-to-new-york/story-e6freoof-1226575762598

[ozbob]

DMUs are being looked at as replacements I understand, but not sure if there is the political will to support it.  Other states can do it, and do it well.  But I guess this is Queensland ...

[colinw]

The CM dredge this up this time every year like clockwork, almost like their editorial position is that they want the Government to shut down the long distance trains.

[somebody]

The CM dredge this up this time every year like clockwork, almost like their editorial position is that they want the Government to shut down the long distance trains.

Surely not. 

[colinw]

I expect it to be followed up by an article about the 'blow out' per km costs on the suburban rail network.

[ozbob]

I expect it to be followed up by an article about the 'blow out' per km costs on the suburban rail network.

Yes all a very carefully stage managed performance leading up to the biggy -  the outsourcing of the train maintenance.  Around 1500 jobs to go as I understand it ...

They must think everyone is dumb, the media certainly likes to play along at times ..

It is little wonder that things are so awry. We can see the deception and duplicity clearly going on in transport, but it also occurs equally in health, education, IT, support services and the like.   Complete societal failure awaits ..

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

Govt considers axing subsidised rail routes: Emerson

Govt considers axing subsidised rail routes: Emerson
Rae Wilson 12th Feb 2013 10:30 AM

BOUTIQUE tourist services could replace rural rail journeys in Queensland's west and north as the State Government considers axing heavily subsidised routes.

Transport Minister Scott Emerson said there was an average of just 30 passengers on the Westlander rail route between Brisbane and Charleville and the Inlander route between Townsville and Mt Isa.

He said he believed most people would be shocked to learn the routes were subsidised more than $2000 per journey and was increasing each year.

"I'm very keen to have a conversation with local mayors, local communities and local MPs to discuss if that's the best use of tax payer dollars," he said.

"At the moment we have subsidies for coach and some subsidies on air as well as regulated air services.

"Obviously the coach air and rail are doing the same journeys to the same destinations.

"But the coaches are far less subsidies and in some cases the air isn't subsidised at all."

Mr Emerson said passengers were inclined to use these alternative means to get to their destination.

He said no decisions had been made but discussions would begin soon.

"People are choosing not to go by rail, people are choosing to go by air," he said.

"That's understandable where a journey may take 20 hours by rail by just over two hours by air."

Mr Emerson said he had heard the Richmond mayor speaking on radio about a possible boutique tourist service which was another option for the routes.

He said the route that roughly followed the Queensland coastline was not under review.

[colinw]

Looks like the sheep herding has begun.  Baaaaaa!

Seems like the Government doesn't care if a few far western seats go to the KAP.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I expect it to be followed up by an article about the 'blow out' per km costs on the suburban rail network.

Yes all a very carefully stage managed performance leading up to the biggy -  the outsourcing of the train maintenance.  Around 1500 jobs to go as I understand it ...

They must think everyone is dumb, the media certainly likes to play along at times ..

It is little wonder that things are so awry. We can see the deception and duplicity clearly going on in transport, but it also occurs equally in health, education, IT, support services and the like.   Complete societal failure awaits ..

The unions went up when NGR was first mentioned and had the "Whole of life" mentioned in the tender back in early 2010.

[Stillwater]

Westlander, Inlander .... it is just as much about the journey as the destination.  The 30 passengers Brisbane-Chareville needs to be challenged.  That probably is the number of end-to-end passengers.  How many people get on and off in between - Toowoomba to Roma, for instance?  Or who go Brisbane-Dalby etc...

You have also got to wonder about the sort of conversation that will be had with mayors along the way..

Emerson:  We are going to cut your train service from June 30, any questions?
Mayor:  Well, on top of the floods, that will just about kill us.
Enerson:  Yeah, well we have got to pay for your flood levees somehow.  You chose, train or levees?

[colinw]

I wonder just what the quoted costs included.  Isn't the Westlander the only thing running beyond Roma apart from the odd Quilpie cattle train?  How much of the quoted costs are actually maintenance of the corridor, etc?

I agree that the inland long distance trains simply cannot continue in their current form, but this stinks of dirty politics, and I very much doubt anything useful is going to be provided to replace it.  This is QLD after all.

[somebody]

That probably is the number of end-to-end passengers.  How many people get on and off in between - Toowoomba to Roma, for instance?  Or who go Brisbane-Dalby etc...

If your suspicion is correct then that is at best sloppy journalism.

[petey3801]

If they had a reasonable timetable, they might get a lot more locals using the service too. Who in their right mind is going to use a train to travel from, say, Roma to Toowoomba late at night one day, then wait around in Toowoomba for a few days before the next train runs west at stupid-o'clock in the morning?

Also agree that Out thurs/back sat is pointless for weekend type travelers as well. The timetable has basically been made to fail, really.

[colinw]

When I was a kid, the Westlander used to be supplemented by daylight 2000 class railcar runs between Toowoomba & Roma. By all accounts they were somewhat better patronised than the Westlander.

Those Roma services held on until 1993, closing at the same time as the Helidon railcar.  By then I believe they were running fairly close to empty. Not hard to see why when I once fronted at Toowoomba Station to buy a ticket on the RM, and they tried to talk me out of it and direct me towards McCafferty's in Neil St!

[ozbob]

http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-vn3420230-v

The "Westlander" on the a Range, Queensland, ca. 1970.

[ozbob]

Next installment ...

Couriermail --> Move to review rural rail subsidies by Newman Government

[Jonno]

It is amazing how all the road construction and maintenance across the State is not a subsidy and just cost of living!!  Rest of world moving to rail, cycling and other public transport yet in QLD we stuck in 1980's economic rationalism timewarp! 

[BrizCommuter]

Sounding like the devil's advocate, but really can we justify spending these huge sums on inland rail travel, when coach travel would be far cheaper, more frequent, and in some cases faster?

Having travelled around South America, which has a excellent coach network (especially in Brazil), you can catch a comfortable air conditioned coach with reclining seats from the middle of nowhere location to another middle or nowhere location, with a choice of daily services, and low prices. These bus services are even profit making, and there is often competition between different operators  on routes.

[ozbob]

I actually expected the Westlander to finish in 2012, hence my journey to Charleville in April of that year.  I think the Westlander will cease mid year this year if not sooner.  The only thing keeping the line open west of Roma is cattle ex Quilpie.  Not sure if that is sustainable so the western line is gone.

The Inlander runs on a busy rail line, the GNR.  Locals up there are keen on a DMU type service, but not sure if that will eventuate.

The aging rolling stock has effectively had its day.  Done a sterling job over the years.

Both services were just left to languish, no real attempt to promote, support or improve.  The end is nigh.  One gets the impression some times that the railways really don't want to run trains at times ...  such is life.

I am starting to weigh up the options about life elsewhere.  Queensland is heading to a monumental basket case.  Life on the 5' 3" (what's left of that) might be a better option, particularly post RRL.

[SurfRail]

You're well and truly not the only one Bob.

In my case it would simply be moving to the CBD and turning my back on the network for anything other than recreational jaunts.

[colinw]

Only thing keeping me in QLD is that my wife doesn't want to move, but even she is having 2nd thoughts. Sometimes I just want to walk away from the whole darn country, as we seem determined to mismanage ourselves into oblivion.

[colinw]

Here's the real agenda, yesterday's article was just the 'softening up':

This will do in the Western Line beyond Roma for sure. I'd say Central Line beyond the Galilee Basin around Alpha should also be considered doubtful.

I do not believe for one moment that DMUs will be considered, welcome as they would be on the Mt Isa run, and for services west of Ipswich.

The Toowoomba Range alignment basically kills off any chance of a useful Westlander replacement anyway.  Anywhere else that line would have been replaced with a better alignment by now, but here in good old QLD we just soldier on with an ancient alignment & stupid toy gauge.

I predict that within 20 years, rail in QLD will be the SEQ electrified network, a few coal lines, the Mt Isa corridor and the NCL.

Courier Mail -> Move to review rural rail subsidies by Newman Government

SUBSIDISED rural train trips - which cost more than flights to New York, Rome and London - could be shunted into history by the Newman Government.

Transport Minister Scott Emerson last night revealed plans for a wide-ranging review of regional transport subsidies that will consider switching support from rail to bus and plane travel.

The review comes after The Courier-Mail yesterday revealed the subsidy for each passenger travelling on the Westlander between Brisbane and Charleville and the Inlander between Townsville and Mount Isa was more than $2000 a ticket.

The subsidy, which has skyrocketed in recent years as passengers ditched train travel, costs more than a plane ticket to many international destinations.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.
Train trip cost like flying to New York
Taxpayers fork out for rural rail

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

Mr Emerson last night promised to write to all regional mayors with communities potentially affected by the review.

He said the review of regional transport services was the first in six years and would seek to come up with an effective solution that reflected the changing nature of how people travel.

"We can deliver better outcomes for regional Queensland by improving regional services," Mr Emerson said. "There are some areas of the state with subsidised bus, train and plane routes while some of our most remote communities have only one service a week."

The Government subsidises 16 long-distance bus routes, five air services as well as Traveltrains.

As well as looking at reducing duplication of different subsidies, the review will also consider whether to deregulate some plane routes.

Richmond Mayor John Wharton said there was a "strong case" for reducing train services but the subsidy money must be retained for regional transport services.

"We have been down this path before with the previous Bligh government and all the mayors of the corridor agreed that if you took that money away that subsidy needs to go back into the bus and the air," he said.

[SurfRail]

I'm doing the SOTO and the Inlander later this year at some point.  No point risking putting it off...

[colinw]

Courier Mail has fueled up the Sopwith Camel and come in for another strafing run on the railway:

Railway figures like train wreck

THERE'S just something about passenger trains, if only because they represent about the last generation of technology I understand.

That's reasonable, given that some of Queensland's "name" trains are about as old as I am.

However, they are increasingly expensive, as shown by figures published by The Courier-Mail this week.

It seems, for example, that every passenger on the Westlander between Brisbane and Charleville rides along with a $2236 subsidy.

QR's other major rural passenger rail journey, between Townsville and Mount Isa, is bankrolled to the tune of $2038 for every bum on a seat.

The figures were so staggering that online opinionators smelt an accountancy rat or detected the heavy hand of bureaucratic incompetence.

It is difficult for the innumerate to know just where the cost calculations begin and where they end.

And, frustratingly, there was no comparative figure for the real cost of subsidising road and air transport.

If there is not some kind of complacency at large in QR, it does seem to err wildly on the side of caution when it does its sums.

For example, a couple of years ago Rod Polain brainstormed the idea of holding a music festival at the Dulacca showground serviced by return charter trains from Toowoomba and Roma.

QR chewed it over and came up with the idea of a temporary platform, presumably because it couldn't accept the responsibility of passengers clambering down to the ground.

The logistics were summarised as: security fencing $2500; temporary platform $8000; safety barriers $3500; lighting towers $1500; yard slashing and clearing and construction of hardstand areas $10,000; contingencies $2500.

That all added up to $28,000 (plus security for railway property and trains).

Oh, and trains?

One locomotive and four carriages carrying 200 people from Toowoomba would cost $62,018 with $1952 per extra carriage.

A railcar from Roma seating 108 customers would cost $44,668 and one with 160 customers $52,341.

Leaving the $28,000 platform out of it, that works out between $310 a person from Toowoomba (about 250km away) and an amazing $413 from Roma (about 100km).

Coach company Murrays quoted an infinitely more realistic $7500 for three 66-seat buses running twice the distance - from Brisbane or the Gold Coast - which works out at a tad under $38 a head.

A music festival at Dulacca might not have been the showbiz idea of the century but you can only conclude that either QR really isn't interested in the charter business or its passenger services are so expensive to run, they should go the way of the steam engine. And it should put paid to the fond idea that the railways are necessarily of any great comfort to country folk.

It all gives substance to the figures published this week.

The problem, we are told, was apparent to Anna Bligh's Labor government but nothing was done.

Now the baby is in the lap of Campbell Newman's Government and all the portents are that it is plucking up the will to do something.

However, it's easy to see why Bligh's mob wilted and it would be equally easy to understand if Newman's team eventually wimped out.

The political ramifications are daunting, with some people even harking back to the days of 1960s and '70s treasurer Gordon Chalk and his alleged vandalism of country rail.

Labor would have been painfully aware of the damage suffered by the government of Wayne Goss when it tried to rationalise rural services in the 1990s.

And even Newman has to tread carefully around the sensitivities of the "N" component of his LNP Government lest some go rogue.

Railways have a special place in our national psyche, even if we are reluctant to consign them to memory, where they might well belong. That special place is confirmed by the completion of the line from Darwin to Adelaide, decades after it ceased to be a real national priority.

For country Queenslanders, the hardware of the railway represents a tangible connection with the world, even if they are about the last people who would use it.

If services were terminated - or even reduced - they would see it as further evidence of the bush being abandoned by the city and betrayed by an LNP government.

Conversely, if nothing is done, some city folk might see it as the National tail wagging the Liberal Party dog, despite the fact that touring urban dwellers make up a large percentage of passengers.

Rationalisation might be a good theory but the political pain is real.

However, it is a debate we must have to get the best value for money rather than a slow ride into the past.