POLL: Gold Coast to Bowen Hills via Tennyson in peak

[somebody]

I thought I'd take a poll to see what other members think.

[ozbob]

Not real sure that this will happen.  I think the XPT will be moved and they will ramp up the trains to get more through at peak. 

[somebody]

Not real sure that this will happen.  I think the XPT will be moved and they will ramp up the trains to get more through at peak.

It may not, but it's been talked about enough.

[somebody]

And moving the XPT just means that they can use the DG in peak.  They could have moved all the passing to within the Salisbury-Kuraby triple if they had wanted to.  But they didn't.

[ozbob]

As a sideline, Tennyson line being used heavily tonight and on the weekend for closures between Roma St and Rocklea

http://translink.com.au/news-and-updates

[SurfRail]

No, no, no, a thousand times no.

Step 1 - timetable update, including removal of XPT (or at least provisioning for it being gone so new services can be slotted in) and designing around the Coomera River bridge being duplicated
Step 2 - more standees, add extra services when limiting factors (XPT, Coomera, lack of rollingstock) are resolved
Step 3 - CRR and better rollingstock

No need to add 15+ min to everybody's trip and risk screwing up the Richlands line as well.

[somebody]

Not to mention screwing up the Ipswich line which it will also interfere with.

Disappointing that there are two voters pro.

[ozbob]

Forget about the XPT for now ..

What is the maximum number of trains that can run across Merivale bridge at peak?

30?  two minute headways, probably not achievable.

24 - 2 minute 30 seconds headway, might be able to do that.

What is the present number now at peak?

[somebody]

Honestly, I think the option of terminating one or two trains between 8am and 9am at Sth Brisbane had some merit.

I agree, ignoring the infrastructure, but the prime candidates for terminating at South Brisbane would be the Gold Coast trains.

Why don't we just make them stop at more stations to pick up standing passengers?  That requires no changes to the infrastructure.

Forget about the XPT for now ..

I think it could be managed so that it's not a problem.  But you would have to, God forbid, change the timetable.  Can't do that, can we?

What is the maximum number of trains that can run across Merivale bridge at peak?

30?  two minute headways, probably not achievable.

24 - 2 minute 30 seconds headway, might be able to do that.

What is the present number now at peak?

I think we ought to be able to do 24tph in the AM peak if something can be done about Central platform 4.  Moving the crew changeovers from Bowen Hills #2 to Central #3/#4 in the AM peak would help too.

I think we could probably manage the same in the PM although every train needs to pass South Brisbane platform #1 at least.

[somebody]

I'm not going to pick whether it be Gold Coast or Beenleigh, Translink would have the data that would provide the best selection. Terminating GC trains however would not be my first choice due to Airport connection

Not sure why this connection is worth thinking about.

[SurfRail]

I'm not going to pick whether it be Gold Coast or Beenleigh, Translink would have the data that would provide the best selection. Terminating GC trains however would not be my first choice due to Airport connection

Not sure why this connection is worth thinking about.

Contractual requirements for a start.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I'm against terminating trains at South Brisbane. That's a step back for PT when the majority of people are going 1-2 stops futher.

[nathandavid88]

^^ I'm not a fan either. It'd be like having escalators that finish 5 steps from the top. It's would annoy a lot of people if they had to change services just to travel the extra 5 mins it takes to get to Central, especially if a wait was involved.

Leaving aside the actual technicalities involved (I'm not as well versed in that part of things) I would definitely advocate the use of the Tennyson line if it can improve services over the status quo, as long as it can do so without creating issues for the Ipswich Line. While we are waiting for new, much needed new infrastructure to really bring QR's frequency kicking and screaming into the 21st century, if there is existing infrastructure that isn't being used like the Tennyson Line, or other infrastructure not being used to its full potential, options should definitely be looked at! And if the choice was between skipping Yeerongpilly to South Brisbane, or terminating at South Brisbane and transferring to get to Central, I think people would opt for the former option!

[SurfRail]

Given a Hobson's Choice between going via Tennyson or terminating at South Brisbane, I would much prefer South Brisbane.  Same journey time, transfer onto a bus or just wait for the next train.  Tennyson is a guaranteed extra 15 minutes and causes more complexity.

[HappyTrainGuy]

RTT, the trains now still have a reasonable amount. The only time anyone should even think about terminating trains at South Brisbane is if they are at crush capacity which they simply aren't. Indeed you'll find that there are alot of students that utilise Park Road-South Brisbane (Theres a large all girls school just south of South Bank station, Brisbane State School is a short hop up the road, TAFE is to the north west and Griffith/QUT to the east. UQ students transfer to the busway at Park Road). Students also transfer from the Beenleigh to Cleveland line to alight at Coorparoo. Anyone that transfers to another line are also counted as someone getting off. Alot of people that work in the Southern End of the CBD also alight at South Bank and cross the bridge/jump on the Citycats/free cross river ferry. But its still not enough to terminate a train let alone multiple trains.

[HappyTrainGuy]

It might be a solution but its a very poor one at that. Smoke and mirrors really. Running patterns and path allocation is the best option short term until CRR along with looking into that XPT which is the main peak hour bottleneck problem (blocks the DG track and also blocks all access between South Brisbane and Roma Street for about 2 minutes IIRC). Adding a additional crossover to the current DG only crossover to the north of South Brisbane would also take off some pressure of the South Brisbane-South Bank arvo Gold Coast P1-P3 merge which uses 2 seperate crossovers and a portion of the inbound middle track. Take a look at the Caboolture line. Prior to the timetable mods there were trains literally running empty in morning peak hour. How many times could you get on a train at 8.20am or so at Northgate and get 4 seats all to yourself. The running pattern mods sure fixed up that issue and visually trains are less crowded. Add all those factors in and you're onto a winner.

[somebody]

Does the XPT prevent inbound paths while it is moving outbound or something?

[HappyTrainGuy]

The Caboolture line issue I raised was in regards to an old out of date timetable across multiple lines to which services were just thrown at over the years including different running patterns rather than looking at the network overall. I'd imagine that would also apply to the Gold Coast/Beenleigh and Cleveland line services but not as bad as it got for the Caboolture-City line. The smoke and mirror reference wasn't in regards to you but when Newman first publicly announced those plans. Like the northern busway. Big expensive plans but with bugger all benefit and then buzing a couple routes instead of actually sitting down and looking at the bus network thats still running based of something planned in 2000. It doesn't apply as much for AM but the AM is under utilized Park Road-South Brisbane.

[somebody]

The Caboolture line issue I raised was in regards to an old out of date timetable across multiple lines to which services were just thrown at over the years including different running patterns rather than looking at the network overall.

In Qld?  That couldn't happen.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Thanks,
I would have thought Beenleigh GC has been given more updating due to addition of GC line and tripple track extension?

IIRC It was last updated for the triple but it was just retimed slightly rather than a proper review as we have seen recently on the Caboolture/Ipswich/Shorncliffe etc.

Edit: Quote.

[somebody]

That was with major sarcasm.

[Andrew]

I think what they should do for a start is add extra platforms at Dutton Park, Fairfield, Yeronga, Yeerongpilly, Moorooka, Rocklea & Salisbury.  Dutton Park, Fairfield, Yeronga and Rocklea would only involve Low-Medium construction as it would mean upgrading to an island platform between the inbound and DG track.  The major cost would be that the upgrades would have to probably be DDA compliant which mean actually doing the long overdue accessibility upgrades.  Yeerongpilly, Moorooka and Salisbury would required outright new platforms.

The advantage to these new platforms is that you then have some flexibility on which track you run the train on.  Ultimately, you could signal all tracks from Dutton Park to Salisbury as fully Bi-directional. As crazy as it sounds, you might just be able to run the outbound trains down the DG track when it's not daylight saving so they are the same direction as the XPT in peak hour.  The big downside of course is crossing over to the DG at South Brisbane which would probably slow things down on the inbound, or putting in new crossover tracks at Dutton Park.  I'd have to sit down with the current timetables and have a fiddle to see whether it would actually work.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Sailsbury and Marooka would need extensive eathworks to put the tracks anywhere near the same elevation as the platforms.

[somebody]

Dutton Park-Yeerongpilly do not need platforms on the DG with CRR.  Just run into the CRR tunnel.  Moorooka, Rocklea and Salisbury could have a benefit, but a quad with the extra track on the east side would achieve the same benefits.