Huh? Does this make sense to anyone else?

[Mr X]

I'm going up the coast tomorrow morning and I was taking a look at the travelling time involved. For a 5.21am departure from Roma Street, the Nambourlander arrives at Landsborough at 7.04, express pattern 5 (express Northgate to Caboolture stopping only at Petrie). Total travelling time 1h43mins.

Meanwhile a Sunday morning train, leaving RS at 6.30am, with the same stopping pattern, gets to Landsborough at 7.55 (I've done that particular journey before), for a travelling time of 1h25mins.

Why is there such a big variation in travelling time if both are early morning services stopping at the exact same places? Does the Monday train have to sit idly at stations (for a grand total of 18mins) because of the single track issue?   

[Arnz]

Looking at the timetable of the 5:21am, there are crosses at Beerburrum and Glasshouse (crosses with 2 morning peak trains).   Gotta love Single Track.

So I would guess it would mean sitting around while waiting for the peak direction trains to cross.

[somebody]

Probably one train has to do the "dance" between Landsborough and Nambour and the other doesn't.

[ozbob]

[Mr X]

At Beerburrum.. let the hokey pokey begin lol..

Timetabled to take 35mins just to go 18km. All together now... QUEENSLANDER!!!

[somebody]

I favour the elimination of the "dance" - terminate some trains at Landsborough and increase frequency south of there.

[ozbob]

I favour the elimination of the "dance" - terminate some trains at Landsborough and increase frequency south of there.

I think we would all like the dance of the trains eliminated, but better to have that than no services at all.

The answer is obvious, upgrade the line. 

[somebody]

I favour the elimination of the "dance" - terminate some trains at Landsborough and increase frequency south of there.

I think we would all like the dance of the trains eliminated, but better to have that than no services at all.

The answer is obvious, upgrade the line.

You could get rid of it at a 2-hour train frequency between Landsborough and Nambour.  Meet every second train with a bus.

[ozbob]

I doubt if anyone who uses the services would want that. As it is the rail buses are generally avoided, people simply want to catch the train.  The roads are considered too dangerous for many.

[Mr X]

Quite often the bus is quicker than a train would be between Caboolture and Landsborough!

[ozbob]

Quite often the bus is quicker than a train would be between Caboolture and Landsborough!

Sometimes, but if that was the consideration by users then they would be on them.  They wait for the trains ...

[somebody]

I doubt if anyone who uses the services would want that. As it is the rail buses are generally avoided, people simply want to catch the train.  The roads are considered too dangerous for many.

I'd expect that's because of the slow journeys, the need to endure an all stops train from Caboolture and poor coordination.  Things that wouldn't apply if the buses coordinate at Landsborough.

Also the bus isn't particularly slower than the train between Landsborough and Nambour.  I don't believe that the 90 minute frequency will ever be attractive to anyone particularly when combined with the slow journeys.

[Arnz]

I would suggest 2 buses if it trains were reconfigured as hourly at Landsborough and 2-hourly at Nambour.  An all-stopper bus, and an Nambour express bus (stopping at Ettamogah Pub/Glenview and Woombye only)

Sunbus operates both routes, with the smaller CB20s used for the all-stopper.  The all-stopper bus could easily be marketed as a hail-and-ride service, allowing pick-ups inbetween stations on the route, provided it's safe to do so.

[somebody]

I would suggest 2 buses if it trains were reconfigured as hourly at Landsborough and 2-hourly at Nambour.  An all-stopper bus, and an Nambour express bus (stopping at Ettamogah Pub/Glenview and Woombye only)

Absolutely.

[Gazza]

Seems like a good solution...Until such time as the line gets duplicated surely this would have a lot of benefits?

How is it any worse than the Shepparton line, some trains terminate at Seymour but they are all met with buses.

I think its better to give at least one population center (Landsborough) a reasonable hourly frequency until such time as the line is upgraded, rather than trying to give the whole line a 90 min frequency, that, whilst more 'equitable', means southern stations miss out on more services and you end up with a slower service anyway due to the dance. In the time spent waiting on the train whilst it dances, you could already have changed to a bus and be on your way!

(More services to the Southern Stations are a better sell anyway since the closer you are to Brisbane, the more often you would travel there)

[somebody]

I haven't checked that hourly or even half hourly is achievable without duplications between Beerburrum and Landsborough.  But it's a more likely proposition than insisting that the duplication needs to go to Nambour and that no trains can be cut back north of Landsborough.

I'm proposing that in a few years time we should look to having these stopping patterns out of peak:
4tph Northgate all to Kippa-Ring
2tph Northgate, Petrie, all to Landsborough - met by numerous buses.  1tph would be an advance on present.
0.5tph Northgate, Petrie, Caboolture, Landsborough all to Nambour.

occasional Gympie services Northgate/Petrie/Caboolture/Landsborough then on to Gympie.

[Fares_Fair]

Quite often the bus is quicker than a train would be between Caboolture and Landsborough!

Interesting observation MrX.
One that I had not noticed since concentrating on the times between Caboolture and Nambour, some 54km.
My analysis of the 26 rail buses (timewise) between Caboolture and Nambour is shown below.
From Sunshine Coast timetable effective Monday 11 July, 2011.

Red = fastest Rail Bus.
Blue = fastest Train.

e.g.
Northbound


13 No. Rail Bus times Caboolture to Nambour.
(there are 2 'short' Rail Buses from Caboolture to Landsborough, both taking 42 minutes)
The remaining 11 vary from 1 x at minimum 1 hour 08 minutes to 1 x at maximum 1 hour 31 minutes.

'x 2' denotes number of services with that journey time duration.

0 hour 42 minutes x 2 [Short Rail Bus: Cab - LBoro]
1 hour 08 minutes x 1
1 hour 10 minutes x 3
1 hour 26 minutes x 2
1 hour 27 minutes x 2
1 hour 28 minutes x 1
1 hour 30 minutes x 1
1 hour 31 minutes x 1
-------------------------------
                      Total 13 No.


19 No. Train times Caboolture to Nambour.
These vary from 13 x at minimum 0 hours 59 minutes to 1 x at maximum 1 hour 29 minutes.

0 hour 59 minutes x 13
1 hour 02 minutes x 3 [1=GYN]
1 hour 05 minutes x 1
1 hour 08 minutes x 1 [GYN]
1 hour 29 minutes x 1
-------------------------------
                      Total 19 No.


Northbound, as you can see the fastest Rail [Exp] Bus at 1 hour 08 minutes is = or faster than 2 trains out of 19.

1 train is slower at 1 hour 29 minutes (and it's an express ) Dep. Roma St 5:21am arr. Nmbr 7:43am, taking some 2 hours 22 minutes.
Average speed 44.32 km/h. (Assuming Roma St to Nambour =104.9km) This is hardly a 'comparable' service.

e.g.
Southbound


13 No. Rail Bus times Nambour to Caboolture.
(there are 3 'short' Rail Buses from Nambour to Mooloolah, followed by minutes of wait for train to Landsborough)
The remaining 10 vary from minimum 1 hour 05 minutes to maximum 1 hour 31 minutes.

'x 2' denotes number of services with that journey time duration.

0 hour 56 minutes x 1 [Short Rail Bus: Nmbr - Moolah incl. 0 hour 25 minutes wait for next train to LBoro]
1 hour 28 minutes x 1 [Short Rail Bus: Nmbr - Moolah incl. 0 hour 57 minutes wait for next train to LBoro]
1 hour 33 minutes x 1 [Short Rail Bus: Nmbr - Moolah incl. 1 hour 02 minutes wait for next train to LBoro]
1 hour 05 minutes x 1
1 hour 06 minutes x 1
1 hour 07 minutes x 1
1 hour 13 minutes x 1
1 hour 24 minutes x 1
1 hour 25 minutes x 4
1 hour 26 minutes x 1
-------------------------------
                      Total 13 No.

N.B. These above are based upon the arrival times at Caboolture, departure times vary from 1 hour 12 minutes to 1 hour 32 minutes.


16 No. Train times Nambour to Caboolture.
These vary from 2 x at minimum 0 hours 57 minutes to 1 x at maximum 1 hour 23 minutes.

0 hour 57 minutes x 2
0 hour 58 minutes x 6
1 hour 00 minutes x 5
1 hour 03 minutes x 1
1 hour 06 minutes x 1 [GYN]
1 hour 23 minutes x 1 [incl. 18 minutes Lboro to Brwh. ]
-------------------------------
                      Total 16 No.

Southbound, as you can see the fastest Rail [Exp] Bus at 1 hour 05 minutes is = or faster than 2 trains out of 16, 1 includes 18 minutes for Lboro to Brwh leg.

To summarise, almost all Rail Buses are much slower than trains between Caboolture and Nambour which is why no one wants to use them.
They are an indictment of the Sunshine Coast network.