Joint Statement: NEW CARSELDINE GOVERNMENT PRECINCT TO TAKE PRESSURE OFF CBD

[ozbob]

Joint Statement:

Premier and Minister for the Arts
The Honourable Anna Bligh

Minister for Public Works and Information and Communication Technology
The Honourable Robert Schwarten
23/10/2010

NEW CARSELDINE GOVERNMENT PRECINCT TO TAKE PRESSURE OFF CBD

Premier Bligh has announced that the former Queensland University of Technology campus at Carseldine will become a new Government Office Precinct.

Ms Bligh said the Queensland Growth Management Summit in March reinforced the need to decentralise Government services to reduce pressure on the CBD.

"This new precinct will move around 1000 government employees to the remodelled former QUT buildings by late 2012," said the Premier.

"The refurbishment of the existing campus buildings for office space will provide 13,000 m2 of office space with the cost of conversion estimated at $50 million."

The Premier said the site of the former QUT campus at Carseldine is state-owned land that has been vacant since late 2008.

"It's an ideal location to be used as part of the Government's decentralisation initiative," she said.

"It is located 13km from the city within Brisbane's northern transport corridor and the 45 hectare site is easily accessible by rail, bus and car.

"Exactly who will to move to the new site has yet to be determined but what is clear is that we want this initiative to mean that employees have a shorter commute to their workplace.

"Relevant public sector unions and employees will be consulted fully about this latest relocation."

As part of the agreement with QUT the State Government will redesignate land within the University's Gardens Point campus as freehold land to assist the University's ongoing redevelopment of the campus.

Ms Bligh said the existing child care centre at Carseldine would be maintained and said the decentralisation initiative would be a catalyst for the new Carseldine Urban Village.

"The Urban Land Development Authority is expected to release a masterplan for the Urban village for community consultation next month," she said.

"The presence of 13,000 m2 of office space with identified public service tenants obviously provides an important employment hub for the new urban village."

Minister for Public Works Robert Schwarten said under the Government's decentralisation plan around 5600 government staff would be relocated from the Brisbane CBD to a number of locations including Carseldine.

"For example earlier this month the Transport Minister announced that Queensland Rail had leased a new office in Ipswich to accommodate up to 50 staff," he said.

Minister Schwarten the Carseldine site was within to the existing Fitzgibbon Urban Development Area.

"The redevelopment of the QUT Carseldine campus as a new employment centre within the Fitzgibbon UDA, supports the emergence of Fitzgibbon as an attractive place to live, work and play," he said.

The Minister said offices at the campus would have open plan, modern flexible work points, open stair access (for a healthier workplace), breakout areas and cafes for staff.

"It also will provide more work opportunities in an area of high population growth, reducing commuting distances for north-side employees and promoting traffic flow away from the CBD," he said.

A joint government and union Workforce Decentralisation Working Party will address industrial relations and employee management issues.

Consultation will take place with unions and employees about any organisational change and workforce issues.

==============================================================

[ozbob]

 

[Derwan]

This would be great for me!  I'd be able to drive to work!!  *DUCKS*

[WTN]

If I worked there I'll end up with a much longer commute on buses or trains.

I wonder what departments will move there?

[Golliwog]

That is the problem with these shifts to begin with, you end up with some people better off, but those who had ok commutes to the CBD lose out. But in say 10 years people will have either adapted, or moved to live closer to work, or changed employers, etc.

[skippy]

Public transport usage always declines when employment shifts from the CBD due to
- the need for many to change PT modes
- less traffic congestion
- cheaper parking

Moving just 13km will be similar to when Australian Tax Office relocated to Upper Mount Gravatt - most people stopped using public transport despite being well serviced by PT. Now if they had decentralised properly away from Greater Brisbane, to say to Varsity Lakes then I would have supported the move.

[Jonno]

I think you will find the availability if free or certainly cheaper car parking has a lot to do with the change of mode associated with the relocation and probabably a lack of information to help people learn new PT routes.

[Derwan]

1000 employees is just a handful of the total number of public servants located in the city.  That's just over one 6-car train.  It will do very little.

If the 1000 by late 2012 is just the first step in something bigger, it might have an impact.

With regards to public transport and my own situation, I'd have to walk to Boondall train station.  From there I could catch a train to Northgate and then another one back out to Carseldine - at the cost of a 3-4 zone ticket.  If I did this, I'd have 2 options - 7:31 or 8:12, with 18 and 5-minute changeover times at Northgate respectively.  I'd only want to do this during the peak period as the wait at Northgate during off-peak is 28 minutes both ways!

I could also catch a bus (from the train station) and then change buses at Taigum Shopping Centre.  If I did this, I'd have 2 options in the morning - 7:20 or 8:33.  Changeover is 12 or 14 minutes at Taigum.  It'd only be a 4-zone ticket and total commute time (including walking) would be just over half an hour, which isn't bad.  But unfortunately if I'm late for the 7:20 bus, I have over an hour to wait for the next one - or jump on the train that has an 18-minute changeover time at Northgate.

Of course, I could drive to Carseldine in about the time it takes me to walk to the train station.  I could leave when I wanted and come home when I wanted.  If parking is free or cheap, is there any wonder why people would drive their cars?

Applying a parking fee is NOT The answer.  It is only the answer when there is adequate public transport, which is obviously not the case in my situation.

[#Metro]

Failure to increase general train and bus frequency and install cross city non-CBD bus routes will not support decentralisation.

When frequencies are low, transfer penalties become extremely high which makes people take the car. There is heaps of demand for cross city travel, but it is latent. The demand is there, the fact that multiple cross city CBD bypass freeways to cater for the sheer volume of this kind of trip proves beyond doubt that the demand is there.

Derwan, you also wrote about having to travel only during peak hour.
This is "time convergence" where people make their trips during peak hour because that's the only time the services are on at a reasonable frequency. This puts huge strain on the system at peak hour. It is also somewhat a vicious cycle - the failure to increase off peak train frequencies makes people travel during peak, which then gets taken as "proof" that "nobody wants to travel in the off peak" which then is used as self-justification for not putting more services in the off peak and protesting that no more services will fit during peak hour becuase of the system can't fit more trains-- which of course further entrenches the problem.

Again, evidence from BUZ shows the greatest amount of growth came in the off peak and on weekends. Many of these will be trips diverted from cars, entirely new trips, but IMHO some would be existing trips shifted from peak hour.

[Derwan]

It is also somewhat a vicious cycle - the failure to increase off peak train frequencies makes people travel during peak, which then gets taken as "proof" that "nobody wants to travel in the off peak" which then is used as self-justification for not putting more services in the off peak

Nail ==> Head!

[Derwan]

I wonder what departments will move there?

I work for the Shared Service Agency, which has just over 1000 employees in Brisbane.  They're constantly looking for cheaper accommodation so perhaps we've been earmarked to move!  (Bring it on!)

The Department of Infrastructure and Planning has between 900 and 1000 employees in total. (I don't know if they already have staff located outside of the CBD area.)

There are probably other departments with around 1000 employees in the CBD area.  I don't have the full breakdowns.

It may be that they'll relocate some sections of multiple departments.

[#Metro]

I work for the Shared Service Agency, which has just over 1000 employees in Brisbane.  They're constantly looking for cheaper accommodation so perhaps we've been earmarked to move!  (Bring it on!)

Some caution:
Cheaper for whom? The land might certainly be cheaper, but if it isn't well supplied by PT or isn't "on the way" then it really might just result in shifting costs from a "seen" balance-sheet (the government) to an "unseen" balance sheet (the employees), particularly if they have to drive far.

[frereOP]

I work for the Shared Service Agency, which has just over 1000 employees in Brisbane.  They're constantly looking for cheaper accommodation so perhaps we've been earmarked to move!  (Bring it on!)

Some caution:
Cheaper for whom? The land might certainly be cheaper, but if it isn't well supplied by PT or isn't "on the way" then it really might just result in shifting costs from a "seen" balance-sheet (the government) to an "unseen" balance sheet (the employees), particularly if they have to drive far.

I work for one government agency that will be moving from the CBD to Ipswich in 2012.  I live halfway between them,  but my commute to work will go from 1 bus and 52mins door to desk, to >1h 20min, with 2 buses and 1 train.  The reason it takes to long is that in the morning, trains inbound to Brisbane depart Darra about every 5 - 10 mins.  Outbound trains depart about 1 every half hour and I will have a 20min wait at Darra en route.  I haven't worked out how long it will take to get home.

Now what happens to those people who live on the East or North side including our CEO who lives at Banyo!

[#Metro]

I'm guessing that you might become a new customer of the toll bypass tunnels then? 

[BribieG]

So who actually will own the campus land itself? Surely a good opportunity to develop part of it as a "Fitzgibbon Chase stage n" on the other side of the tracks. And maybe acquire and rezone that car wreckers while they are at it  
Sorry, Torana owners

[WTN]

The article says its owned by the government.

There was talk at my workplace about being relocated there, but has been ruled out.

[Derwan]

I went to an information session about this yesterday.  So far DTMR will take around 700 spaces.  The other 300 spaces will be occupied by one or two of DPW, JAG, DEEDI, DERM or Communities.  (I am officially part of DPW, so was interested in the potential move.)

Final determination of who is going should occur around February (possibly March) 2012, with the move occurring late 2012.

The question was asked and I reinforced the issue of public transport.  While it's nice that it's near a train station and along bus corridors, that doesn't mean that transport there is convenient.  A colleague who lives at Banyo checked trains under the current timetable and discovered that for us on the Shorncliffe Line, it would take longer to get to Carseldine than into the city - during PEAK.  Despite living closer to Carseldine, it would be a longer journey if we were to take public transport.

The presenter (from the Public Service Commission) claimed that they would be having discussions with TransLink regarding this.  (You can imagine my confidence in a result out of that.)

The whole idea of "decentralisation" is a bit blurred as well - with a number of the DTMR employees relocating there coming from the Zillmere office.

But for the good news, there are end-journey facilities (showers and lockers) for those wishing to utilise active transport... something that I would seriously consider if my work unit was one to move there. 

The motto is "Work Local. Be Local."

More information on Carseldine (and Ipswich, which is occurring in 2013) is available at www.psc.qld.gov.au/decentralisation.

[somebody]

A colleague who lives at Banyo checked trains under the current timetable and discovered that for us on the Shorncliffe Line, it would take longer to get to Carseldine than into the city - during PEAK.  Despite living closer to Carseldine, it would be a longer journey if we were to take public transport.

This is not the least bit surprising.  Poor counter peak frequency is considered acceptable in this town, even when heading to employment and/or study destinations, but also there is a quite acute angle between the Shorncliffe and Caboolture lines at Northgate.  It would probably be faster to use a 325 from Boondall to get a train at Geebung, although that is infrequent.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Problem is that every damn bus goes to the city! They don't fan out and link between areas. I'll try to find that gigantic route to go from the Gympie Road end of Zillmere road to the Sandgate road end. It was something like 1 hour swapping between buses and trains while walking large distances for the connection lol.

Edit: Said route:

800 Zillmere Road, Aspley to 48 Zillmere Road, Boondall

Total journey time: 1 hour 13 minutes

Total walking distance: 1095 metres

[petey3801]

A colleague who lives at Banyo checked trains under the current timetable and discovered that for us on the Shorncliffe Line, it would take longer to get to Carseldine than into the city - during PEAK.  Despite living closer to Carseldine, it would be a longer journey if we were to take public transport.

This is not the least bit surprising.  Poor counter peak frequency is considered acceptable in this town, even when heading to employment and/or study destinations, but also there is a quite acute angle between the Shorncliffe and Caboolture lines at Northgate.  It would probably be faster to use a 325 from Boondall to get a train at Geebung, although that is infrequent.

Ouside of peak, the connections between Caboolture/Shorncliffe are a lot better than they used to be. For SHC/CAB transfer, it's 4 minutes. CAB/SHC transfer is 2. Both are tight, however better than the old ones! Translink journey planner must have a 5-odd minute tranfer time default, as it goes straight to the next train for the transfer. In off-peak, the Caboolture train generally arrives at Northgate early anyway, so wouldn't be too bad.

[Golliwog]

Translink JP does come up with some interesting combos. The other day I wanted to go to Chermside shopping centre from my house in Keperra. The two options it gave me were to either catch the 362 to The Gap, 385 to KGS, then 340 back out to Chermside (~1hr 20 minutes), or catch the 362 to Keperra station, take the train to Newmarket, then catch the 325 to Chermside (~1hr). Because of when I was leaving I went there via The Gap, but coming back I knew the 599 would take me to Brookside where I could catch the 362, which took me 50 minutes. It was a very close connection at Brookside though.

[Derwan]

As mentioned in another thread, the LNP is planning to repeal the decentralisation directive.  It is rumoured that TMR has pulled out of the move to Carseldine.

Over the last few months, contractors have been busy fitting out the buildings at Carseldine.  What is to become of this?  A waste of money?

[ozbob]

In the Army, we had a saying " Great coats on, great coats off ..." 

Some constants in life .. lol

[Fares_Fair]

As mentioned in another thread, the LNP is planning to repeal the decentralisation directive.  It is rumoured that TMR has pulled out of the move to Carseldine.

Over the last few months, contractors have been busy fitting out the buildings at Carseldine.  What is to become of this?  A waste of money?

TMR employees have confirmed that the move to Chermside has been cancelled.

[Derwan]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/one-thousand-public-servant-jobs-to-be-relocated-from-cbd-to-brisbanes-northern-suburbs/story-e6freon6-1226477776641

One thousand public servant jobs to be relocated from CBD to Brisbane's northern suburbs

PUBLIC servants who are unable or unwilling to relocate to Carseldine on Brisbane's northside are facing retrenchment if they cannot be redeployed to another area within the CBD.

The Newman Government is pushing ahead with a plan launched by the previous government to move almost 1000 workers from Transport and Main Roads to the suburb 16km north of the City, where up to $50 million has been spent converting an old university campus into office space.

Premier Campbell Newman has previously blamed public servants' enterprise bargaining agreements for allowing them to refuse to relocate.

But changes to working conditions introduced by his government have given public servants almost no choice but to move if they want to keep their jobs.

A spokesman for Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson confirmed they were looking to relocate 950 staff from various business units within the department to Carseldine by the end of the year.

"A decision regarding which business areas relocate to Carseldine will be made in the next couple of weeks and communicated with staff," he said.

"Work is due to finish on the site about December."

He said workers who were unable or unwilling to relocate would be a matter for the Public Service Commission.

An email obtained by The Courier-Mail shows those workers will be designated an "employee requiring placement" which can lead to retrenchment after four months.

"The relocation of TMR services to the Carseldine Office Precinct will improve service delivery access for local communities," read the email from TMR's chief finance officer.

The Courier-Mail understands one of the areas expected to be moved, is TMR's call centre.

Concerned public servants said many who lived in the western suburbs were initially told that some TMR areas would also be moving to Ipswich.

"Now they are being told that all will go to Carseldine, like it or not," said one worker.

"The opinion is simple: go or go into the redeployment group and it's more likely you too will be out the door."

He said the relocation would increase congestion on Brisbane roads, as workers commuted across town, and flood local streets with cars.

"No staff will be allowed to park in the 300 car parks on the campus," he said.

[Derwan]

Repealing the decentralisation directive has meant the LNP can force workers to relocate.  The former directive included "no forced moves" clauses.

[Fares_Fair]

As mentioned in another thread, the LNP is planning to repeal the decentralisation directive.  It is rumoured that TMR has pulled out of the move to Carseldine.

Over the last few months, contractors have been busy fitting out the buildings at Carseldine.  What is to become of this?  A waste of money?

TMR employees have confirmed that the move to Chermside has been cancelled.

... and today's news story 

[ozbob]

I visited the then Carseldine Campus of QUT a few times over the years at QUT.  Quite enjoyed it, and the counter peak train ride ...

guess I am the exception ... 

[Derwan]

I visited the then Carseldine Campus of QUT a few times over the years at QUT.  Quite enjoyed it, and the counter peak train ride ...

guess I am the exception ... 

Try putting in somewhere from the Ferny Grove or Shorncliffe Lines to Carseldine.  Apart from the lack of choices, you have to go all the way into Bowen Hills (from the FG line) or have a 16-minute wait at Northgate if coming from the Shorncliffe Line.

I'm sure northsiders will find it easier to drive.  If the car park within the campus fills, there's the car park at Carseldine Station or residential side streets.

[ozbob]

Well maybe, the TMR employees might finally start to get it, that is counter peak frequency, connections and the like actually matters ... 

[Derwan]

Well maybe, the TMR employees might finally start to get it, that is counter peak frequency, connections and the like actually matters ... 

Haha.  My comment on the CM site was along those lines.  At least it's the right department to do something about it! 

[Jonno]

Well maybe, the TMR employees might finally start to get it, that is counter peak frequency, connections and the like actually matters ... 

Haha.  My comment on the CM site was along those lines.  At least it's the right department to do something about it! 

They will build a tunnel from Kedron though!!!!!

[HappyTrainGuy]

With regards to public transport and my own situation, I'd have to walk to Boondall train station.  From there I could catch a train to Northgate and then another one back out to Carseldine - at the cost of a 3-4 zone ticket.  If I did this, I'd have 2 options - 7:31 or 8:12, with 18 and 5-minute changeover times at Northgate respectively.  I'd only want to do this during the peak period as the wait at Northgate during off-peak is 28 minutes both ways!

I could also catch a bus (from the train station) and then change buses at Taigum Shopping Centre.  If I did this, I'd have 2 options in the morning - 7:20 or 8:33.  Changeover is 12 or 14 minutes at Taigum.  It'd only be a 4-zone ticket and total commute time (including walking) would be just over half an hour, which isn't bad.  But unfortunately if I'm late for the 7:20 bus, I have over an hour to wait for the next one - or jump on the train that has an 18-minute changeover time at Northgate.

Of course, I could drive to Carseldine in about the time it takes me to walk to the train station.  I could leave when I wanted and come home when I wanted.  If parking is free or cheap, is there any wonder why people would drive their cars?

Taigum interchange to the old QUT is easy in the mornings and from in the afternoons due to the peak hour 335s going to/from the city. Off peak I'd suggest riding a tumbelweed rather than wait for the hourly 335. Wouldn't have been as bad in the old days when the 328/335/339 ran as one route during peak hour Chermside also has the 335 (its faster and more direct than the 340) but that doesn't start up till about 8.30-8.45 for the first outbound service from Chermside interchange. There is also the 325 to Geebung Station and the 336/337 community bus service that helps feed between interchanges and stops along Zillmere road (Bit of a walk though). Build the Norris Road extension and throw a route up in there. Loop the 330 back to Carseldine station and it would be a quick pop over the road.

Its reasons like that why I harp on about the 335 going to Boondall Station instead of Sandgate or the 340 buz extension to Boondall Station. Get more routes going across town. Pump frequency into the railnetwork. Cut the amount of routes going to the centre of town. Same with the Strathpine-Sandgate corridor. Pay more to travel through extra zones but faster trip via Chermside or pay for one zone that takes forever or not at all on Sundays.

[somebody]

You'd think 1000 workers would be enough to justify a half decent counter peak service, particularly when the trains are operating that way anyway.

[WTN]

I think it's more likely the 300 space carpark will be expanded and opened up following complaints from parked out streets. Retiming existing services for better connections might happen, but extra services are fairly unlikely. Those will probably be thrown into the "no demand, don't bother" mindset.