Go card intermittment fares after reaching free travel threshold

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter has just been charged for his 11th journey this week. Wasn't charged for the 10th. Not amused! 

[somebody]

BrizCommuter has just been charged for his 11th journey this week. Wasn't charged for the 10th. Not amused! 

What!  Was it a fixed fare?

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter has just been charged for his 11th journey this week. Wasn't charged for the 10th. Not amused! 

What!  Was it a fixed fare?

No. No fixed fares or other unusual occurrences this week.

[ozbob]

Any bus journeys?  I am starting to suspect that delays with system data base updates from the bus go gear might be an issue that is leading to the odd glitch.  You are not the first to report this ...

[ozbob]

Interesting, I got pinged for a fare when I touched off at Goodna this evening.  I had already reached the two journey threshold (Seniors Card) and travelled free for most of the day on rail and buses etc. Gold Coast.  Odd that I would then pick up a fare charge.  Adjustment applied for.

Wonder if there are some issues with capping?  Briz and now me this evening??

[BrizCommuter]

Any bus journeys?  I am starting to suspect that delays with system data base updates from the bus go gear might be an issue that is leading to the odd glitch.  You are not the first to report this ...

Bus, then train. Unexpected fare occurred for train portion of journey. Bus portion did not show up in history, but start of train journey shown as transfer, so the system must have known about it.

[ozbob]

Any bus journeys?  I am starting to suspect that delays with system data base updates from the bus go gear might be an issue that is leading to the odd glitch.  You are not the first to report this ...

Bus, then train. Unexpected fare occurred for train portion of journey. Bus portion did not show up in history, but start of train journey shown as transfer, so the system must have known about it.

One of my bus trips was missing as well.   I think we have found an issue ... under some circumstances where the bus data has not yet been uploaded, for some reason this is scrambling the capping ...

[ozbob]

Anyway, I have passed on my travel details to TransLink and they will have a look.

The problem is of course if someone is travelling for free on the weekend or when ever and they suddenly start paying fares may not have enough credit or money. 

[BrizCommuter]

Anyway, I have passed on my travel details to TransLink and they will have a look.

The problem is of course if someone is travelling for free on the weekend or when ever and they suddenly start paying fares may not have enough credit or money.

Plus an automatic top up may be triggered prematurely.
TransLink need to identify and automatically refund public transport users hit with this glitch.
BrizCommuter is writing a blog post on this, but is waiting to see what happens with two journeys today.

[STB]

Any bus journeys?  I am starting to suspect that delays with system data base updates from the bus go gear might be an issue that is leading to the odd glitch.  You are not the first to report this ...

Bus, then train. Unexpected fare occurred for train portion of journey. Bus portion did not show up in history, but start of train journey shown as transfer, so the system must have known about it.

One of my bus trips was missing as well.   I think we have found an issue ... under some circumstances where the bus data has not yet been uploaded, for some reason this is scrambling the capping ...

Wouldn't the counter be programmed within the card itself that the reader checks when you touch on?

[ozbob]

Sure would, but there does seem to be an issue.  I guess it is a programming problem that is only seen in some circumstances.  Be interesting what TransLink (cubic) come up with.  It is these sort of programming problems = intermittent, that can be the most troublesome to fix.   And it does need to be fixed ...

[ozbob]

Anyway, I have passed on my travel details to TransLink and they will have a look.

The problem is of course if someone is travelling for free on the weekend or when ever and they suddenly start paying fares may not have enough credit or money.

Plus an automatic top up may be triggered prematurely.
TransLink need to identify and automatically refund public transport users hit with this glitch.
BrizCommuter is writing a blog post on this, but is waiting to see what happens with two journeys today.

Be interested to hear how it went Briz, and so will many others I guess. 

[BrizCommuter]

Blog post now online.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com.au/2012/07/yet-another-go-card-fail.html

12th and 13th journeys went without any problems. Seems to be related to bus to train transfers, with additional zones on the train portion.

[ozbob]

Thanks. Yes, seems to involve transfers around the journey count that the cap cuts in.

I have applied for my adjustment. 

[ozbob]

More feedback, definitely seems to be as we have indicated. 

================

Twitter

Garry McK ‏@garrymck

@Robert_Dow charged me for second part of a continued journey. The touch reader had said the first part free.

[ozbob]

For those so interested, this is my go card history that shows the issue ..  following a number of reports of go card users getting pinged when theoretically on free travel, I thought the Gold Coast trip would be a good opportunity to try to replicate the error ...

This is a Seniors go card.

13-Jul-12 06:11:53 PM    Touch off    Goodna    -4.03    *
13-Jul-12 04:03:10 PM    Touch on transfer    Varsity Lakes        
13-Jul-12 03:53:12 PM    Touch off    Varsity Lakes        
13-Jul-12 03:13:24 PM    Touch on    Nerang        
13-Jul-12 10:54:47 AM    Touch off    Garden Street [23496]        
13-Jul-12 10:39:36 AM    Touch on transfer    Surfers Paradise [23101]        
13-Jul-12 10:22:08 AM    Touch off    Surfers Paradise [50001]        
13-Jul-12 09:55:55 AM    Touch on transfer    Nerang Station Stop B [57389]        
13-Jul-12 09:51:24 AM    Touch off    Nerang        
13-Jul-12 08:03:38 AM    Touch on    Roma Street        
13-Jul-12 06:56:21 AM    Touch off    Roma Street    -1.53    *
13-Jul-12 06:47:56 AM    Touch on    Central        
13-Jul-12 05:57:15 AM    Touch off    Darra    -1.79    *
13-Jul-12 05:36:47 AM    Touch on    Goodna

I am using a Seniors Go Card, this has a two (2) paid journey cap, after which all travel is free.

I touched on at Goodna and touched off at Darra - cost $1.79 two zone concession fare.  One paid journey completed.

Next touch with this card was at Central.  A zone one touch on.  This is not in the same or adjoining zone so another journey sequence is initiated.  (This is the zoner loop hole, a second go card was used for the Darra to Central journey).  Second paid journey is then completed when touch off at Roma St.  One zone concession fare of $1.53, two paid journeys now completed.  No further touch on for greater than hour.  Free travel now activated.

I subsequently travelled to Nerang.  Touch off no charge - correct.

I then did a series of bus journeys.  No charge - correct.

I then travelled to Varsity Lakes from Nerang rail station for a look before heading back to Brisbane.  On arrival at Varsity Lakes, touch off no charge - correct.

On the home leg Varsity Lakes to Goodna, ping fare $4.03, which does not exactly equal a fare on the fare-table.  INCORRECT charge.

[ozbob]

Sent to all outlets:

16th July 2012

Greetings,

Since the introduction of the "nine journey and travel free" changes from the 25th June we have become aware of a number of instances of go card users travelling for free past either the two paid journey daily cap (Seniors, some DVA pensioners)  or the nine paid journey weekly cap (all users), and  they have been debited with what appears to be random fares, when the travel should have been free.

TransLink have been notified.

It is important that all go card users check their go card history regularly and take steps to seek adjustments  for fares incorrectly debited.

Hopefully TransLink will fix this issue ASAP.

Further details -->  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=432.msg104210#msg104210

There is also another complication that some users are not aware of.  A journey where there is a fixed fare applied means that journey doesn't count towards a free travel cap.  Confused?  Not half as much as many users.  LOL

Don't forget to touch off!

Best wishes
Robert

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Short interview on 612 ABC Brisbane Breakfast this morning with Spencer Howson where I was able to highlight the need to check go card histories ..

TransLink will be on tomorrow.  Glitches will happen in any complex system, the message is to check, and seek adjustments where appropriate.

[ozbob]

Translink's new "free after nine" not perfect yet

16 July 2012 , 8:26 AM by Spencer Howson

Public transport advocate Robert Dow, from RAIL Back on Track, says Translink has been charging passengers who should already be onto their free trips.

Click --> here!

[ozbob]

This issue made the midday news on ABC Radio.  Minister indicated will be looked at.

[ozbob]

Just received a phone call from 612 ABC Brisbane radio listener, who heard the segment this morning and confirmed that he too has had the random fare experience after the two journey cap ....  he suggested that it is wide spread.

[ozbob]

Standby Transport Minister on 612 ABC Brisbane radio shortly to explain issue with go card ...

[ozbob]

Should be up on the 612 Breakfast blog soon ...

herewith a few grabs as I listened ...

1 in 12 school children on Gold Coast bus don't have a ticket ...  comment from Spencer prior to interview

" ...  blitz on Gold Coast last week ... large scale rorting ...  spoke to operators etc.  ...  found on Gold Coast 1 in 12 students no fares, money ... names taken down ... if caught again will talk to parents, if that doesn't sort, students will be banned from using the buses ... evidence is occurring various degrees around SEQ ...

Go card issue with fares when past free travel threshold ...

" ... glitch in system, no one will miss out, several hundred occurrences, will be fixed, all fares adjusted (not clear if auto or on application) transfer in between journeys involving stand alone reader  ...

[ozbob]

From 612 ABC Brisbane radio Breakfast with Spencer Howson

1 in 12 students getting free ride, exploiting "no child left behind"

17 July 2012 , 8:10 AM by Spencer Howson

Bus drivers have been saying it - now Translink has proof students are abusing the "No Child Left Behind" policy, introduced after the disappearance of Daniel Morcombe, to avoid paying for a ticket.

Around one in 12 Gold Coast students is riding for free. Transport Minister Scott Emerson is here to tell you what Translink has unconvered.

Mr Emerson also responds to yesterday's claim by RAIL Back on Track's Robert Dow that Translink is charging passengers for trips which should be free:

Click --> here!

[ozbob]

Twitter

Robert Dow ‏@Robert_Dow

@TransLinkSEQ do go card users overcharged because of the free travel glitch need to claim or will it be auto refunded? @scottemersonmp

[ozbob]

Response received that adjustments will be affected later this week automatically for this particular issue (fares after reaching free travel threshold) and then daily till fix effected.

Thanks! 

[ozbob]

From the Brisbanetimes click here!

Go Card glitch: Hundreds mistakenly charged

Go Card glitch: Hundreds mistakenly charged

Date July 17, 2012 - 11:59AM Daniel Hurst

A Go Card glitch has seen hundreds of people charged for public transport travel that should have been free.

The Newman government adjusted travel incentives last month to ensure people who notch up nine journeys in any one week can travel for free until the Sunday.

Robert Dow, from commuter lobby group Rail Back on Track, said he was aware of intermittent problems that caused passengers who had reached the free travel threshold to be charged for some further journeys.

He said it generally involved transfers between bus and rail travel and people touching off at stand-alone Go Card readers.

Transport Minister Scott Emerson today acknowledged a glitch in the system had caused some travellers to be incorrectly charged for what should have been free journeys.

"It basically happens, as I understand it, when there's been a transfer in between journeys and [the passenger] has gone to a stand-alone reader at the end," he told 612 Brisbane.

"Now, that will be fixed, but we think it'll take about two weeks to get it fixed while the new technology, the new software goes in, but there will be adjustments to anyone who's missed out on this."

Mr Emerson said anyone incorrectly charged would be refunded the money, but the number of people affected needed to be put into context.

"We've got several hundred that this has occurred for, but each week we have had 130,000 free trips being taken under the LNP's free trips after nine journeys, and over the last three weeks we've had about 165,000 passengers who have actually got their free trips as well," he said.

"So the numbers are very small, relatively, but there has been a glitch and there will be an adjustment to it."

The LNP's incentive, introduced last month, allows Go Card users to travel for free after they notch up their ninth journey in a Monday to Sunday week, regardless of zones travelled.

It replaced a similar scheme introduced by the former Bligh government which allowed free travel after 10 journeys in a week.

Seniors Card holders and pensioners with Go Cards are entitled to a daily fare cap which means they can travel for free for the rest of the day after making two journeys in one day.

Mr Dow said the glitch had also affected some people eligible for the seniors cap, including himself.

On Friday he notched up two paid journeys and had numerous free journeys for the rest of the day but then transferred to Varsity Lakes where he could a train to Goodna. The final journey was charged on his Go Card.

Mr Dow said he was aware of someone else who had competed the nine journeys in a week required to qualify for free travel, enjoyed a 10th journey at no cost, and was then charged for an 11th journey.

He said it was positive that TransLink was moving to fix the problem.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/go-card-glitch-hundreds-mistakenly-charged-20120717-227i0.html

[ozbob]

Adjustment for the $4.03 incorrectly charged has now been processed and waiting to be loaded on to go card.

Interesting yesterday.  I did a series of journeys, reach the two paid journey threshold (seniors go card) and then I noted on touching off at Goodna was incorrectly charged 0.74cents.  On checking my history it has that touch off presently missing.  Odd.  Might have been removed when the auto-adjustment for the false fares ran overnight?

19-Jul-12 12:45:49 PM    Touch on transfer    Roma Street        
19-Jul-12 12:29:26 PM    Touch off    Roma St Bus Station Platform 1 [BT010793]        
19-Jul-12 12:24:28 PM    Touch on transfer    Cultural Centre station platform 2 [BT011168]        
19-Jul-12 12:19:14 PM    Touch off    Cultural Centre station platform 1 [BT010802]        
19-Jul-12 12:11:06 PM    Touch on    West End - 7 [BT001064]        
19-Jul-12 10:24:30 AM    Touch off    Jane Street - 6 [BT001073]    -1.22    *
19-Jul-12 10:12:41 AM    Touch on    Adelaide St op Anzac Sq (r) (Stop 36) [BT000036]        
19-Jul-12 08:10:38 AM    Touch off    Central    -2.72    *
19-Jul-12 07:30:35 AM    Touch on    Goodna

[ozbob]

After waiting for 24 hours I went down to the railway station to check a few things on the go.

At the AVVM go card history the touch off at Goodna at 1.36pm for a fare of 0.74 cents was showing.

This then downloaded the previous adjustment of $4.03.

I then touched on at the reader to see if there would be fixed fare.  No.  Even though the touch off at Goodna yesterday at 1.36pm has been wiped off the online database.  I assume that this was the daily overnight run to remove incorrect fares.

So this is what the online history looks like:

20-Jul-12 04:24:01 PM    Cancel touch on    Goodna        
20-Jul-12 04:23:35 PM    Touch on    Goodna        
20-Jul-12 04:22:38 PM    Top up/Adjustment    Goodna    4.03    
19-Jul-12 12:45:49 PM    Touch on transfer    Roma Street        
19-Jul-12 12:29:26 PM    Touch off    Roma St Bus Station Platform 1 [BT010793]        
19-Jul-12 12:24:28 PM    Touch on transfer    Cultural Centre station platform 2 [BT011168]        
19-Jul-12 12:19:14 PM    Touch off    Cultural Centre station platform 1 [BT010802]        
19-Jul-12 12:11:06 PM    Touch on    West End - 7 [BT001064]        
19-Jul-12 10:24:30 AM    Touch off    Jane Street - 6 [BT001073]    -1.22    *
19-Jul-12 10:12:41 AM    Touch on    Adelaide St op Anzac Sq (r) (Stop 36) [BT000036]        
19-Jul-12 08:10:38 AM    Touch off    Central    -2.72    *
19-Jul-12 07:30:35 AM    Touch on    Goodna

[Fares_Fair]

It has been a very good, and swift response by both the Minister and TransLink over this issue.

[ozbob]

Advice received confirms my observations.  The daily auto-adjustment is removing the incorrect fares and transaction.

Feedback from TL:

Daily adjustments are continuing until the software fix goes through next week, so that customers are not out of pocket, but it does mean you might see similar "missing" transactions in the card transaction histories until the fix is sorted.

[ozbob]

Just checked Mrs' go card at the AVVM Goodna rail.

She did two journeys yesterday (Seniors go card).  I checked on line and the touch off at Goodna rail end of journey two missing.  On the AVVM, history shows the touch off at Goodna.

So it might well be the adjustment routine is also wiping legit fares - 

Only two simple journeys on her card for the day - Goodna <-> Roma St,  Roma St <-> Goodna ...

Online history:

25-Jul-12 05:29:11 PM    Touch on    Roma Street        
25-Jul-12 07:30:47 AM    Touch off    Roma Street    -2.72    *
25-Jul-12 06:58:21 AM    Touch on    Goodna

Card has the touch off at Goodna 6.01pm -2.72

[ozbob]

I reported my observations with respect to Mrs Ozbob's go card to TransLink.

They have looked into it and have identified that the issue is a damaged fibre cable to the stand alone reader used to touch off on the platform UP end at Goodna.  They will organise techs to fix it.

[ozbob]

My anomalous fares have reappeared on the history?

Two journey daily cap Seniors card ...

19 July 74 cents, 13 July $4.03

19 Jul 2012
07:30 AM    Goodna    08:10 AM    Central    $ 2.72    
10:12 AM    Adelaide St op Anzac Sq (r) (Stop 36)    10:24 AM    Jane Street - 6    $ 1.22    
12:11 PM    West End - 7    12:19 PM    Cultural Centre station platform 1    $0.00    
12:24 PM    Cultural Centre station platform 2    12:29 PM    Roma St Bus Station Platform 1    $0.00    
12:45 PM    Roma Street    01:36 PM    Goodna    $ 0.74    
18 Jul 2012
01:33 PM    Goodna    01:56 PM    Ipswich    $ 1.70    
02:21 PM    Ipswich    02:29 PM    Cancel Touch On    $0.00    
02:59 PM    Ipswich    03:28 PM    Goodna    $ 1.70    
Show transactions
15 Jul 2012
08:15 AM    Darra    09:06 AM    Central    $ 1.70    
11:21 AM    Central    11:56 AM    Darra    $ 1.70    
13 Jul 2012
05:36 AM    Goodna    05:57 AM    Darra    $ 1.79    
06:47 AM    Central    06:56 AM    Roma Street    $ 1.53    
08:03 AM    Roma Street    09:51 AM    Nerang    $0.00    
09:55 AM    Nerang Station Stop B    10:22 AM    Surfers Paradise    $0.00    
10:39 AM    Surfers Paradise    10:54 AM    Garden Street    $0.00    
03:13 PM    Nerang    03:53 PM    Varsity Lakes    $0.00    
04:03 PM    Varsity Lakes    06:11 PM    Goodna    $ 4.03     

Have contacted TL.