Survey - experience of anti-social behaviours and Crime and Violence

[david.f]

Hello,

I am conducting a survey about Brisbane commuters' experiences of anti-social behaviour and violence/ crime while waiting on rail platforms or traveling by train.   If you travel by train (Brisbane Citytrain network) at least once per week please consider completing my questionnaire. The survey is voluntary and it does ask about experiences concerning violence, so please consider if you would feel comfortable answering such questions.  Hopefully I have successfully attached an information flyer so you can read further. If you know of anyone who travels by train in Brisbane at least once per week, I would be appreciative if you could make them aware.  Otherwise if you are interested please follow the URL link.

http://survey.qut.edu.au/survey/174249/1bf4/

Thank you for your time,

David

[ozbob]

Completed the survey, straight forward.

Note the flyer is also available here!

[Mozz]

Done and done.

[colinw]

Ditto. Will we be able to see the results?

[Fares_Fair]

Done and Dusted ...

[ozbob]

Ditto. Will we be able to see the results?

Expect so, these things are published.

[somebody]

Done.  I wish Simple Machines had a like button.

[longboi]

Done the survey.

I expect the results to show a low instance of actual victims of crime but a high proportion of those who fear becoming victims of crime.

[colinw]

Ditto. I can think of two or three instances of overt antisocial behaviour I've seen on trains in 24 years living in Brisbane.

One was an outright brawl on an Ipswich train at Ebbw Vale, where we waited until the train came.  That was years ago, around 1991 or thereabouts.

Another was a guy in a psychotic state ranting & raving on a Beenleigh train. He got off at Moorooka and ran along the platform thumping the windows while yelling "I'm going to ****ing kill someone", including right on the window where my wife was sitting.  My wife wouldn't ride evening trains after that.

Oh, and once on the Cleveland line many years ago some idiot with a backward baseball cap challenged me with "What do you think you're looking at?!!".

Other than that, nothing beyond the odd beggar, smelly person or annoying music.

People who think Brisbane trains are a hotbed of crime have probably been reading the Courier-Mail too much.

[HappyTrainGuy]

From my experience it all depends on what time and where you catch/stations the train goes past. Travelling and waiting at stations are mostly safe. Its just the actions of a few that gives everyone a bad impression. I've seen fights on the platform at Roma Street (late Friday night), one bloke attempted a Keanu Reeves and jumped onto the side of a moving train to force open the doors at Brunswick Street (late friday night or late Saturday night - happened a couple years ago) and deros/feral teens thinking their the hot stuff that can yell/spit/drink their sacks of goon (Usually late on friday nights at Caboolture, Lawnton, Bray Park, Strathpine and Zillmere the most). I sense a pattern forming at least from my observations.

[longboi]

^^

I've Travelled on/worked on trains at all times of the day and night. Of course there are times where anti-social behaviour is much more prevalent (Fri/Sat late night for example) but still it's no different to walking down Brunswick St at those times.

[justanotheruser]

^^

I've Travelled on/worked on trains at all times of the day and night. Of course there are times where anti-social behaviour is much more prevalent (Fri/Sat late night for example) but still it's no different to walking down Brunswick St at those times.

I would have thought brunswick st was worse but guess that is just my experience which includes catching the last or second last train home from work on friday or saturday nights on ippy line.  Of course any alcohol fuelled anti-social behaviour on the trains is pointless to research imo. The real issue is why are people drinking and behaving like that? Once we get over the sterotypical generalisations the conclusion is generally alcohol is seen as the main or only way to relieve stress and more stress is put on younger people these days. When I finished school it wasn't expected that you would go to uni or a trade. You didn't have to know what lifetime career you wanted. These days it seems like you need to know those things when you start high school!

[david.f]

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has completed the survey - it is really appreciated to hear from the general public (instead of university students- who are still a valuable source of information!).

I will try and release the results of the survey towards the end of the year.  I want to have it open as long as possible to get as many people as possible.  If you haven't heard anything - just email me (the address is on the information sheet).

Looking at some of the  comments -  it seems that violent / criminal activity is not that common  relatively speaking but if it happens to you it has a significant impact (yes - kinda of obvious).

It appears mostly to be 'anti-social' behaviour - loud music, pushing, feet on seats. 

What do people think of Queensland Rail's community advertisements trying educate people on appropriate behaviour?  They are posters on the trains - my wife and friends think they are silly/juvenile.  How could they be improved?

Again thanks for doing the survey!
Regards,

David

[david.f]

^^

I've Travelled on/worked on trains at all times of the day and night. Of course there are times where anti-social behaviour is much more prevalent (Fri/Sat late night for example) but still it's no different to walking down Brunswick St at those times.

I would have thought brunswick st was worse but guess that is just my experience which includes catching the last or second last train home from work on friday or saturday nights on ippy line.  Of course any alcohol fuelled anti-social behaviour on the trains is pointless to research imo. The real issue is why are people drinking and behaving like that? Once we get over the sterotypical generalisations the conclusion is generally alcohol is seen as the main or only way to relieve stress and more stress is put on younger people these days. When I finished school it wasn't expected that you would go to uni or a trade. You didn't have to know what lifetime career you wanted. These days it seems like you need to know those things when you start high school!

I agree: alcohol accounts for a large portion of violence and anti-social behaviour but the difficult issue is as you say - why is it that people need to drink so much? Expectations that it is the thing to do?

[colinw]

What do people think of Queensland Rail's community advertisements trying educate people on appropriate behaviour?  They are posters on the trains - my wife and friends think they are silly/juvenile.  How could they be improved?

I think they have been a brilliant bit of marketing.

Yes, the got slammed by some as silly/juvenile, but they worked really well at drawing attention to the problem. Every time someone parodies them, they are actually spreading the meme. From my perspective the train etiquette posters have been a very effective campaign.

P.S. on Saturday I experienced loud/obnoxious behaviour in the quiet carriage.  Beenleigh line, inbound to South Bank around 5PM. Loud mobile phone conversations, and some very noisy teenage girls who seemed to think the entire carriage needed to overhead their gossip about which one of them "got with" which boys they knew. 

I agree that alcohol is a major factor in antisocial behaviour on public transport. It stands to reason that late night public transport will tend to concentrate drunks, etc., together, with negative consequences for all.  For early Saturday AM trains we need to have the "party" carriage at the opposite end of the train to the "quiet" carriage.  Stainless steel seats, no carpet, just hose it out at Beenleigh/Ipswich/Caboolture and send it back for the next load.

[#Metro]

I am conducting a survey about Brisbane commuters' experiences of anti-social behaviour and violence/ crime while waiting on rail platforms or traveling by train.

Bus/Ferry not included?

Would have been nice if there were a free text box at the end.

[ozbob]

Bus and ferry might be another survey later on ..

[HappyTrainGuy]

why is it that people need to drink so much? Expectations that it is the thing to do?

I'd say it's a whole mix of things. Where said person lives (Having used the Caboolture line alot there are different attitudes between people at each station at different times of the day). The people said person hangs out with (into drugs, criminal activities, lack of empthy for other peoples possessions, taking advantage of them, to be social, peer pressure, something to do, addiction etc). Parents lack of disiplin (not always the case but there are parents out there that don't care or encourage their behaviour). The persons upbringing/lifestyle/experiences. Inexperience or lack of thought to when they have consumed too much. Aussie culture and international culture towards drinking with the younger generation (sober up during the week and get trashed on the weekend). Other reasons for some of the more serious incidents (muggings etc) can sometimes be the result of the victim. I'm not saying that the victim was 100% at fault but there are instances where the victim might be doing something that someone sees that they can take advantage of if they are in the right situation eg late at night waiting/using/after or when there are low crowd numbers. Not sure if its still a serious issue in New York but for the last year or so people wearing headphones have been targeted for assults/muggings on trains because theives know the dollar value and if they can fork it out for headphones, they have a good MP3 player too. Same deal with iphones and ipods back in the day when they  first came out with the trademark white headphones.

[#Metro]

I have to say, I absolutely hate Brisbane trains.

I have lived on the Cleveland Line and Beenleigh lines and I have to say, the system is rubbish.

Terrible to see brand new trains with a black grime on the floor and walls. Steam clean and oxygen bleach is in order. Why the newer trains have a green furry strip that runs lengthways along the sides of the carriages is beyond me. It collects dirt and grime - why not something that can be hosed down?

Scratchitti is absolutely rife on the carriages. Scrachitti everywhere! How do people get the time to run around the train system with scourer pads and steel wools and do crap like this so blatantly. Don't the cameras work? Isn't anyone prosecuted?

A lot of train stations look horrible and I'm glad that many are being upgraded. Ugly stations facilitate vandalism.
Upgrades could be accelerated with development over the stations.

Train frequency is FAR TOO LOW = more platform waiting time = more contact with weridos and loons.

Alcohol is an issue - I've seem so many drunk people on the network it is ridiculous.


Increase train frequency = double patronage = safety in passenger numbers + less waiting on the platforms with loons

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scratchitti

[HappyTrainGuy]

RTT, I wouldn't be suprised if that was the case too.

Hahaha. TT, Be real mate and live in the real world for once. No one at QR is going to take their time to remove a few scratches in the windows when in that same allocated time they could attend to more important mtce matters which is why they are there in the first place. Not to mention all it would do would add more time to the mtce turn arounds. Train windows also aren't one panel of solid glass as in that video clip. There is glass and plastic in its construction along with resins. If you throw something at it there is a high chance it will bounce off. Its also why the outside of the window can shatter but the inside isn't damaged at all. Most of the scratches are opportunistic moments done by keys. Some people that use the steel wool to damage the windows also use the same steel wool for personal use else after they get off the train. The cameras work but catching people scratching windows aren't the main reason for being there unless you want to employ people to remove all the hdds, trawl through hours apon hours of CCTV feeds, document the specific moment and then find that scratch they did, find out the persons name to follow up on that, the police are unlikely to do anything due to lack of evidence, go to court and then successfully prove that they scratched that window.

I agree about the weird green carpet fabric. They are nice when they we rolled out for the first few months but wear and tear, people eating, shoes rubbing, vandalism and it just looks dirty.

Alcohol is a problem but its also a problem on other networks (Last time I was in Sydney it made Brisbane look tame).

Ugly stations might facilitate vandalism but the area where the station is also helps increase the rate that it gets vandalised. Nerang was a nice looking well lit station when it was first built. So too was Helensvale back in the mid 90's. Still didn't stop people from tagging the building walls on the platform levels not long after it opened. Same with the SEBW. It still gets vandalised. So to do the expensive bus shelters with glass panels and lighting. They still get vandalised by people smashing the glass windows. Gold Coast is a prime example.

And please stop saying double the frequency will equal double the patronage and reduce loonies around stations. That's just not true. Some instances it might but other instances it would remain the same especially if stations still lack proper bus services.  It might stop some but it does sweet FA for anything around the station. Zillmere can have 4tph and 4bph with the 330 but it's not going to remove the ferrals that sit/stand on the steps drinking, spitting, yelling, throwing up and playing music on phones at the station or the derranged that lurk around the buildings/properties/streets surrounding the only walkways in and out of the station out of cctv view. Dakabin could have 4tph but walking along a unlit pathway next to scrubb to the semi lit car park for the sporting fields with houses ages away isn't going to be a big draw card. Bray Park could have 4tph but what are you going to do with the groups of people that constantly lurk in the small walkway to Gympie road or near the overpass to Warner. A higher frequency might be a drawcard for getting patronage but the direct area surrounding the precent could be a major turn away.

[Stillwater]

I thought some sort of clear film was put over the windows, so when someone scratched it, the film was taken off and a new film affixed.

[Fares_Fair]

Speaking of incidents, we had a psychotic woman on our train home tonight.

She got on at Central and was talking to herself out loud which I thought was unusual.
She then sat down on the floor until she realised we had passed Zillmere, then all the foul words under the sun broke loose.

She began swearing using every word in the expletive section, out loud, shouting it in fact, and searched to press the emergency button.
When she found it she then went into an unwarranted instant expletive laden tirade at the poor guard who answered the call.
She said she would smoke cigarettes or sue the Pine Rivers Council or do whatever it takes to stop the train.

The guard was extremely professional in his handling of the matter despite her foul language towards him.
He eventually warned her to stop speaking that way to him or the police would be waiting for her at Petrie. That didn't seem to faze her.
She screamed into the speaker that she was 'schizo.'
We all believed her I can tell you.

She then asked me if I was an undercover cop, are you sure she asked, it's ok you can tell me she said ... I assured her no, I wasn't.
If I was I would have arrested her already for disturbing the peace (though it wasn't the quiet car).

We were glad when Petrie rolled around, a passenger made the comment that she didn't want to get off there if the woman did.
As we left she was reported as seen smoking on the platform, though I didn't see it myself.

Sad for her and for all the other passengers who had to listen and endure it.
Sad for us that we were on our own with no intervention possible.

Fortunately, she was no physical threat to anyone.

[#Metro]

Hahaha. TT, Be real mate and live in the real world for once. No one at QR is going to take their time to remove a few scratches in the windows when in that same allocated time they could attend to more important mtce matters which is why they are there in the first place.

Of course not. It's QR. Who cares the entire carriage is covered in scratchitti and black grime accumulates. Everyone gets paid at the end of the day...

Not to mention all it would do would add more time to the mtce turn arounds. Train windows also aren't one panel of solid glass as in that video clip. There is glass and plastic in its construction along with resins. If you throw something at it there is a high chance it will bounce off. Its also why the outside of the window can shatter but the inside isn't damaged at all. Most of the scratches are opportunistic moments done by keys. Some people that use the steel wool to damage the windows also use the same steel wool for personal use else after they get off the train. The cameras work but catching people scratching windows aren't the main reason for being there unless you want to employ people to remove all the hdds, trawl through hours apon hours of CCTV feeds, document the specific moment and then find that scratch they did, find out the persons name to follow up on that, the police are unlikely to do anything due to lack of evidence, go to court and then successfully prove that they scratched that window.

Can you read what you are writing?! All BT buses have a big fat red sign saying PERSONS WHO DAMAGE THIS VEHICLE WILL BE PROSECUTED.

And please stop saying double the frequency will equal double the patronage and reduce loonies around stations. That's just not true. Some instances it might but other instances it would remain the same especially if stations still lack proper bus services.  It might stop some but it does sweet FA for anything around the station.

Of course it is true. Less contact time!! Safety in numbers!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Scratched windows aren't high on the mtce schedule. Yes, it might p%ss people off but its just something you have to live with.

FFS mate. Yes, a bus. A bus is not a train. IIRC buses here aren't 75-150m long that have two staff covering the whole train. Be realistic for once.

Oh I beg to differ. Contact time means jack sh%t if you still have to walk past them to access the station. Catch the Caboolture line train after 6pm and you'll see how the grubs come out of the woodwork and lurk around the areas surrounding the stations out of view of CCTV cameras. Same with early morning. The stations are safe but the areas surrounding them aren't. Safety in numbers then becomes you're on your own. And even then safety in numbers isn't exactly going to mean your still going to be safe. Try using the train network more often mate and you'll see it.

[#Metro]

Scratched windows aren't high on the mtce schedule. Yes, it might p%ss people off but its just something you have to live with.

FFS mate. Yes, a bus. A bus is not a train. IIRC buses here aren't 75-150m long that have two staff covering the whole train. Be realistic for once.

Oh I beg to differ. Contact time means jack sh%t if you still have to walk past them to access the station. Catch the Caboolture line train after 6pm and you'll see how the grubs come out of the woodwork and lurk around the areas surrounding the stations out of view of CCTV cameras. Same with early morning. The stations are safe but the areas surrounding them aren't. Safety in numbers then becomes you're on your own. And even then safety in numbers isn't exactly going to mean your still going to be safe. Try using the train network more often mate and you'll see it.

Sorry to pierce the bubble (not really), but I expect (a) decent, frequent service, (b) clean train, and (c) not waiting on the platforms for too long. Don't try and justify and explain away the unjustifiable. QR needs to clean up their act, literally.

[colinw]

TT, I think you are being unreasonable and overstating your case (as usual).

(a) and (c) are actually the same point, and as you  perfectly well know are outside QR's control, being a Government funding / Translink matter. If you can find a way to get quarter hourly or better trains on all lines, RIGHT NOW, and for a sensible amount of money, please enlighten us.
(b) I agree the trains could be better presented, but really I think you're being a bit precious about it - they are not that bad!.

Indeed in most areas, away from your precious busway, the trains are definitely the safer & more accessible alternative. Even where I live, under 20km out, the train is a much better option than waiting at an unlit bus stop for a bus that is hourly & sometimes worse on weekends. The station in comparison is clean, well lit, has security help points, cameras, etc.

I am also of the opinion HTG is completely accurate in his assessment that at many stations the service frequency will do very little to impact the crime rate. If the problem is off the station (as it seems to be in most places in Brisbane, thanks to good lighting & help points, etc.), then whether the train is every half hour or every 10 minutes you will still need to run the gauntlet as it were.  Definitely a policing issue, and not something you can blame QR for.

May I respectfully suggest that if you wish to be taken seriously you tone it down a little?

[somebody]

I think increasing frequency might reduce vandalism - there would be more chance of a witness.  There is still a hazard in getting to/from the station though.

I don't like either Sydney or Brisbane's trains much at all.  I'd say that Brisbane is SLIGHTLY worse due to its low frequency outside of Darra-Northgate & Park Rd.

[colinw]

I don't hate Brisbane's trains, and am very comfortable using them other than a vague level of irritation at the half hourly offpeak timetable. At least CityTrain has reasonable operating hours. I must say that none of the Australian systems I have used come anywhere near those in many parts of Asia or Europe. Note: I have never been to Perth, so can't speak for them. OTOH, I'd much rather have CityTrain than what passes for suburban rail in some places I have been (e.g. Bristol). I was also amazed when in Madrid last year to find that the suburban trains there (as opposed to the Metro) actually stop running earlier than Brisbane's. Quite astonishing for a city where people stay out late.

Of the systems I have used, the surprise performer that really impressed me was the Blue Line in Los Angeles.  Super clean, frequent, cheap, safe, good operating hours, and reasonably quick.

I think a lot of station vandalism happens out of operating hours, i.e. the wee hours of the night.  Really good station lighting, like the new stations Coopers Plains to Kuraby inclusive, seems to help.

EDIT: the Gold Medal for the absolute worst suburban rail service I have ever used, anywhere, would have to go to Auckland back in the mid 1990s.  I am amazed that suburban rail there actually survived, let alone prospered to the point that it is getting the major upgrade now underway.

Anyway, enough rambling. I just wish for a little more pragmatism in these discussions. I agree with TT's points to a degree - and scratchitti annoys the heck out of me - but can also see where HTG is coming from. We need to meet in the middle somewhere and deal with the real world.

Incidentally, do other Aussie systems have similar problems with window scratching?  I know I've seen it in Melbourne & Sydney, and it was rife in Auckland in the mid '90s when I last used those trains. What about Adelaide & Perth?

[SurfRail]

In Perth, the issue is drastically worse on the bus fleet, although they have spent a fair amount of effort on that and it is starting to improve.

The train fleet is virtually empty of scratches, which is a bit perplexing for me since the glazing is all single-piece where ours is all in double (ie the window panels have a divider down the middle).

Adelaide had huge problems with the fact they had polycarbonate windows on the 3000s, but they have all been replaced since my last visit in 2009.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Personally I think the frequency/running hours are better than decent. Yes, it might not be the magical 15 minute frequency and there are a few things can be improved on such as gaps in timetables but they do a fair good job with what they have considering the lack of funding for more rollingstock, corridor works and major freight restrictions with the single line for the NCL and the Range. IMHO the bus network is the worst part of our PT network. Try using PT away from the busway or buz routes. Hourly routes that go on scenic tours, very poor running hours (there are still routes that stop running between 4-6pm), lack of a proper rail/train interchage, lack of connections to local business areas (try accessing between Eatons Hill/Bracken Ridge/Sandgate/Strathpine for example), TransInfo stickers/paintings still on seats/sides of buses, just a slab of cement and a post, no slabs of cement - just dirt and overgrown grass, poorly lit bus stops and so on and so on.

Sydney takes the cake for vandalism to rollingstock. Window scratching was less than what we see here but they take the winners cake and the runners up cake too when it comes to grafftti. I was down there the other month and I was shocked at the amount of tags that were on rollingstock. What QR had to put up with during the 2011 floods seems they go through that daily down there.

[#Metro]

Sorry, but as usual, the customer comes last! I caught a train last week to the Valley and it was DISGUSTING, covered in Scrachitti. Perhaps next time I shall photograph and upload. And the black grime as well! There was one time I caught a cleveland line train bound for the CBD and someone had decided to leave poos in the carriage. Yes really. I had to alert the guard and they closed the carriage. Never seen that on a bus!!

I disagree with the notion that frequency doesn't impact safety. Never ever have I felt threatened at a bus stop or busway station. NEVER. Compared to the time I lived on the cleveland line where the entranceways were empannelled in graffiti, I would encounter chroming people, three or four times I saw people graffitiing a walkway, two of these at night, I saw a person injecting drugs into their veins in their arm on a train platform, in broad daylight complete with drops of blood running their arm, and later that afternoon I saw the needle discarded in public area where it sat there for the next month, another time people were drinking and drunk on the train platform, again at night, then another time I saw someone decide to sit on the edge of the train platform (again at night) with their feet hanging over the edge, I had to phone up QR Network Control to alert them so that someone wouldn't have their legs cut off, and another time on a train departing from the Valley, at night, I was accosted by some drunk bedraggled guy who started yelling abuse at me because I didn't reciprocate starting a conversation with me and refused to tell him my name.

There was only one time I felt uncomfortable on a bus, and that was going to Chermside with thugs in the bus. At least the driver wasn't far away! I got off and because the frequency was so fantastic, caught the next one behind.

Personally I think the frequency/running hours are better than decent.

^ Please tell me this statement is a joke!!

[HappyTrainGuy]

Is there anything you don't complain about? Its the same everywhere. Its public transport. It gets used by everyone from the cleanest of people to the dirtiest of people by the nicest of people to the worst of people. Of course there's going to be a few dirty trains out there. I was sent a photo of some guy who took a huge bag of manure and put it on the empty seats beside him. Tradies get on with dirty and muddy boots and after every music festival the cleaners go into overtime cleaning rollingstock. There was one music festival last year where they had to clean a large amount of rollingstock because people decided to clean their shoes on the train by using the carpet and fabric on the seats to wipe the mud off. The demographics of the areas where trains go are different line to line and state to state. Queensland has people scratching windows with limited graffiti. NSW has excessive graffiti on rollingstock with limited scratched windows. Bus stops aren't immune from it too. That is your experience. I've seen pretty much all of it on trains and buses. I got video of someone sniffing paint thinner on the 333 buz, video of drug effected people at Holland Park screaming at each bus that went past, I've been on a bus where a fight started outside the Adelaide street police beat, i've seen drunks, i've seen vomit all over the seats at CCBS, I have photos of large chunks of hair on the seats, I've seen groups of people making racial slurs and taunts underneath SBBS which eventually moved to the platforms and on and on.

No its not. I'm being serious. A train comes every 30 minutes, starts before most buz services, ends late in the night. Most buses come every 60 minutes, start at 6.30/7am, finish before 9pm. Its not great but its damn well decent in my books.