Busways vs Railways?

[monkey]

Just reading the Brisbane Times online article on Busways the future of Brisbane transport: Bligh:


I'm curious how building a busway compares cost-wise to building a railway?  I expect a busway is much like a 2-track railway, except on a busway each vehicle carries 50-60 people (depending on how far up the Derwan scale you want to go), and on a railway a 'vehicle' could be carrying up to 1000 people.

I would have thought that using trains for the backbone of the transit network and busses connecting (as in *really* connecting) from train stations would have been more efficient?

Edited link Admin

[haakon]

While I can't comment about the cost differences between rail and busways. One advantage is that they can be built in a piecemeal fashion.
The northern and inner northen busway are a good examples.
As long as the design is made to cope with future expansion to light rail in mind I think they are a good comprimise.

[ozbob]

Busways are useful when there is no chance of heavy rail.  As Haakon mentions, building them with a view to upgrading to light rail is prudent IMHO.  The INB is built to accommodate light rail down the track. As I just posted elsewhere fuel costs will be a big factor in maintaining Brisbane's bus fleet. As costs become unmanageable I think we will finally see light rail rolled out.

Light and heavy rail is more expensive but more sustainable for the long term.  This article has some interesting background information on the costs of light rail --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail

Light rail has very high capacity, easy to reach 20,000 per hour which makes the busway look second rate.  This is the equivalent of 20 6 car trains per hour on heavy rail, again quite possible and achieved in various parts of the world.  To achieve that by bus you are looking at 200 to 300 buses / hour. That sort of passenger loading will never be achieved by bus. 

It makes more sense to me to feed high capacity heavy rail with lateral feeders.  I think the loss of road space associated with this project will keep a lot of talk back radio busy for years ...

Bus is a cheaper quick fix for the short term. This Government is quite adept at this sort of strategy. It characterises many Governments around Australia and the consequent infrastructure meltdowns IMHO.

[monkey]

It makes more sense to me to feed high capacity heavy rail with lateral feeders.  I think the loss of road space associated with this project will keep a lot of talk back radio busy for years ...

Loss of road space?  Sorry, I've come in cold on this one, but surely $198 million buys more than some bus-only lanes on existing roads?  ...or are you meaning something else when you refer to loss of road space?

Bus is a cheaper quick fix for the short term. This Government is quite adept at this sort of strategy. It characterises many Governments around Australia and the consequent infrastructure meltdowns IMHO.

Sadly I think you're right - it wouldn't be the first time a problem has been band-aided, and band-aided, and band-aided until it finally reaches the point it should have been at in the first place (at half the cost had it been done right the first time).  In the meantime, the commuter suffers with poor service and congested services.

You're right about the fuel costs of buses too I expect (I haven't seen the thread) - the cost of running buses will obviously increase as the price of fuel increases (although if it's like Government run bus operations in other states, the fuel is much cheaper than you and I'd pay for the same litre of diesel).

[ozbob]

The loss of road space is when the elevated bus way drops down to the normal roads.  I think this is just one of the costs but I am sure many of car crowd will not be happy about that 

From:  Courier Mail

DRIVERS will lose one lane each way on Lutwyche Rd north of Newmarket Rd for a $198 million dedicated bus corridor from Herston to Aspley.

The busway begins as an elevated flyover next to the Royal Brisbane Hospital then turns into decidated bus lanes.

TransLink plans show the bus lanes replacing the existing inbound T3 lane and an outbound general traffic lane from Newmarket Road, Windsor to Stoneleigh Street, Lutwyche, from 2012.

The preferred concept can be viewed here at Translink --> click here!

[ozbob]

The other comment I would like to add to this about today's announcement is that it is no doubt related to the council elections next week IMHO.  Labor is not doing well in the polls so time for a bit of an attempt at a  bus boost and look at what Labor is doing for you!  That's politics, fair enough, but I think most punters would be wide awake to these stunts these days.

The Greens' light rail policy is a better sustainable option IMHO. 

This Northern Busway stuff has been around since May 2007. 

[Otto]

While I can't comment about the cost differences between rail and busways. One advantage is that they can be built in a piecemeal fashion.
The northern and inner northen busway are a good examples.
As long as the design is made to cope with future expansion to light rail in mind I think they are a good comprimise.

The construction of the southern busway commenced with the intention of later introducing light rail. Unfortunatly, the government of the day decided to scrap the future light rail conversion in favour of cheaper construction costs of the busway. To see the difference, take a look at the Mater Hill busway station. The concrete pour for Mater Hill had nearly been completed when the decision was made to scrap the light rail option. Look at the roadway surface and you will see the path of the future rail. The concrete was poured in a way so that only the roadway sections in the path of the tracks could be easily removed to allow the laying of tracks. This was not repeated at the remainder of busway stations on the southern busway.

On tonights news, Anna Bligh and Minister Mickey (sorry, could'nt help it) are shown turning the first sod ( actually, a piece of turf just put there ) and marking the official start of the northern busway.

[haakon]

Well that is unfortunate. I've already seen the traffic jams on the busway caused when the riverside expressway was closed. It is only a matter of time before the growth in passenger numbers causes this to be a regular occurance. The eastern busway will only speed up the onset of this event as it will merge in at buranda.

[Mozz]

I have to say I pi**ed myself laughing at the commercial news channel which introed the story with a line which went along the lines: "northside commuters will soon be traveling quicker to work with the commencement of ......"

Soon well if December 2009 is being targeted as a completion date we might just see this upgrade delivered sometime in 2010

[Markus]

Buses Vs Railway
I seem to remember someone saying it depends on the need amognst several other points which I wont dwell on here.
i.e. Generally theres specific modes for specific reasons.
Rail path depends alot on the alignment available.
Electrification depends alot on the rail path. 

Buses generally short haul,
Rail long haul, is the most efficient.

Heavy rail - large volumes of commuters re 2kms or more apart.
Light rail. - smaller volumes of commuters (at any one point) with stops up to 800 metres apart & effective if there is a need to have pedestrian interface.  i.e. If there is pedestrians alongside the rail system.

I personally hope that in the future costs will not be a major factor in choosing the most appropriate mode. But then I love to dream . . .    lol

[stephenk]

Rail path depends alot on the alignment available.
Electrification depends alot on the rail path. 

I'm not too sure what you mean?

Light rail and in particular rubber tyred systems can handle relatively steep gradients and sharp bends.

Also, if you can lay rails (or guideway) you can electrify it.

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A big difference between rail and bus, is rail is limited to a core route, and would ideally require feeder bus services for most stations. Whilst with buses they can travel along the core route, and turn off when required. There are advantages and disadvantages of both methods.

I would also take some theoretical transport capacities with a pinch of salt. A good read on this subject (bus vs light rail vs heavy rail) is Urban Transit Systems & Technology, V.V., Vuchic, 2007, Wiley.

[Markus]

Fair point StephenK,
I was limiting my answer to using technology still used in BNE.
i.e. Steel flanged wheels with current flanged  T  rail.

Markus