475/476

[#Metro]

http://download.translink.com.au/timetables/080519_475,476.pdf

Alter 475/476 to allow passengers from the southside to better transfer without going to the CBD (part loop as per BCC MTR):

Current Route:

• Fortitude Valley
• Ipswich Road
• Tottenham St/Centro Buranda (Terminus)

Proposed Route

• Fortitude Valley
• Ipswich Road
• Woolloongabba Busway Station
• Buranda Busway Station
• Exit onto O'Keefe St
• Ipswich Road
• Tottenham St/Centro Buranda (Terminus)

[somebody]

I agree.

I don't know why the O'Keefe St portal was built if they aren't going to use it.  This seems to be another Translink failure.

[#Metro]

Bus 475: Send via the Inner Northern Busway to improve connections to Northern Busway and SE Busway and Rail at Roma Street. Terminate at Wooloongabba (pax can transfer to SE Busway from Valley and also BUZ 100 for Ipswich Road services). Shorter route also saves money!

Bus 476: ABOLISH

[SteelPan]

....Bus 476: ABOLISH

Why abolish the 476 - maybe put some buses on the route so people can make it a real alternate!

[#Metro]

Why abolish the 476 - maybe put some buses on the route so people can make it a real alternate!

Geometry: A bus route that is only a little different or runs parallel to an existing route competes with that route and splits the frequency
Psycology: People will walk to the most frequent bus service

Frequency: Cutting 476 frees up cash to allow more 475s to be put on or other services that have decent patronage aims.

CUT!!

[somebody]

....Bus 476: ABOLISH

Why abolish the 476 - maybe put some buses on the route so people can make it a real alternate!

Err NO.

476 undermines network legibility.  All its trips should be converted to 475.

[#Metro]

476 undermines network legibility.  All its trips should be converted to 475.

I agree with Simon, and would add to that the random changes to random destinations at North Quay island should also go.
Public Transport needs to be stable, legible and predictable - like main roads.

The problem - whoever is planning the network is playing Portal (TM) with the network. At one time the bus is going to X, oh but suddenly at a different time it is going to Y
or terminating or changing (like the way 230/235's change into each other), different routes at the different times of the day, too many variations vis 202/203/204 or 174/'175 or 184/185 etc...

[SurfRail]

476 undermines network legibility.  All its trips should be converted to 475.

I agree with Simon, and would add to that the random changes to random destinations at North Quay island should also go.
Public Transport needs to be stable, legible and predictable - like main roads.

The problem - whoever is planning the network is playing Portal (TM) with the network. At one time the bus is going to X, oh but suddenly at a different time it is going to Y
or terminating or changing (like the way 230/235's change into each other), different routes at the different times of the day, too many variations vis 202/203/204 or 174/'175 or 184/185 etc...

Again, rationing.  It puts the interests of an improperly resourced/designed system ahead of commuters, which is stupid.

[O_128]

The 475 could actually be a viable route for me to get to uni (change at PA) rather than having to go through the city and CC on the 199. Once again I have to ask why this service has rubbish frequency when the 150 and 140 run every 15 mins to somewhere not even in BCC. Some of the stops along this route don't even have the exclusive yellow bus stops 

[somebody]

Going from PA to the Valley makes some sense, but then going into the city makes little to no sense.  You would never go to the city in this way, even if the 475 turned up at the PA Hospital express stop most likely you would ignore it.  And definitely in the other direction.

[SteelPan]

Err NO.

476 undermines network legibility.  All its trips should be converted to 475.
[/quote]

ER - YES, the 476, which I have used numerous times over the years:

runs a considerable portion of its route along a path the 475 does not serve, indeed, it serves such landmarks as Suncorp stadium and lower Paddington/Caxton St and is ALWAYS packed when it reaches the City and for much of its outbound journey too.

It a viable run, there aren't many of them, but they're never empty, I'm one of MANY people who've used it and plan to again and we rather like out buses, if that's OK with you of course!

[SteelPan]

The 375 [and possibly 475] should be buzzed.
375 services Paddington
475 services Rosalie/Milton

Both at the very least require substational frequency increases, particularly 475 which is way underdone and has been for years.  

[#Metro]

476?

CUT!!

[#Metro]

Buses are capable of turning left and right so I think 475 should enter the busway at wooloongabba and then terminate at PA hospital proper or park road rather than Buranda.

In fact I would look at splitting this route into two - one to RBWH Herston - Park Road, and the other just to City & Valley.

[STB]

I agree.

I don't know why the O'Keefe St portal was built if they aren't going to use it.  This seems to be another Translink failure.

O'Keefe Street portal is used, by route 540 and previously the Veolia routes.  It also acts an an entrance to the busway for emergency and service (busway authorised) vehicles.

[somebody]

I agree.

I don't know why the O'Keefe St portal was built if they aren't going to use it.  This seems to be another Translink failure.

O'Keefe Street portal is used, by route 540 and previously the Veolia routes.  It also acts an an entrance to the busway for emergency and service (busway authorised) vehicles.

(a) That's the old O'Keefe St portal.  I was referring to the one only used by the 77.
(b) I find myself backing away from this aspect of the OP's idea now.  Would it be any better doing via the busway as compared to just sticking to Ipswich Rd/Main St?

BTW, this thread dates back to 2009.

[SteelPan]

476?

CUT!!

Do you actually use the 476 service?

[SurfRail]

There is no real functional difference between them - it just serves to make the system more complicated.  Slightly different route past Suncorp and a slightly different terminus, for no apparent logical reason.

These kinds of routes are evidence the network is full of (a) historical junk ("buscruft"); (b) political favors to people who either do not need them anymore or would benefit from a simpler, more frequent service anyway now governments are getting (more) serious about PT; (c) bad decisions which have just for one reason or another never been corrected; or (d) good decisions at the time which are no longer producing a good outcome.

Time for a complete rewrite of the BT network.  Start from scratch - including bus stop locations...

[SteelPan]

There is no real functional difference between them - it just serves to make the system more complicated.  Slightly different route past Suncorp and a slightly different terminus, for no apparent logical reason....

Other than the fact, it actually serves the people that live in the region - like it's a public transport SERVICE or something?   

[SurfRail]

Other than the fact, it actually serves the people that live in the region - like it's a public transport SERVICE or something?   

Have you actually ever used either service?  You sound like we are talking about killing off the 210 to fund improvements to the 411 or something else on the other side of town.  The 475 and 476 are functionally the same service, with an apparently arbitrary element of complication thrown in:

http://translink.com.au/resources/travel-information/network-information/timetables/120123-475,476.pdf

There is something like an absolute maximum of 400-500m of difference between these routes at Milton, and the same again at Rainworth - for the most part less than this in both spots.  These are the only places where the 2 routes diverge from one another.

So – there are only four 476s per direction per day, and they do virtually the same thing as a 475 except to degrade the frequency in the non-common parts of the route. 

Why not just focus on running a clockface 475 instead?  Who would this actually hurt, and are their interests more important than everybody else's?

Similar stupidity can be found elsewhere (eg the Helensvale-Gaven Heights section of Route 16 and the adjacent Route 728, or the Nerang-Surfers section of Route 21 and the overlaid Route 740).  Simplify and consolidate.

[achiruel]

I agree with cutting the 476.

However I believe the 475 should continue to run along Main St/Ipswich Rd.  This used to be my local bus route when I lived at Kangaroo Point, and a surprisingly large number of people from Kangaroo Point use this bus to access shops at Buranda, terminating it at PAH would remove this function.

[somebody]

I agree with cutting the 476.

However I believe the 475 should continue to run along Main St/Ipswich Rd.  This used to be my local bus route when I lived at Kangaroo Point, and a surprisingly large number of people from Kangaroo Point use this bus to access shops at Buranda, terminating it at PAH would remove this function.

This could be provided by another service though couldn't it?  Doesn't need to continue to Rainworth.

Bit confused by your comments about terminating at PAH removing service to Buranda shops.  PAH = Buranda shops at least with regards to express stops.

[Andrew]

Ha! You guys are all gonna spit when you hear the old 360/361/367 to Rainworth was a 15 min daytime frequency back in the early to mid 90's. 

In all seriousness though, you could probably cut out the 476 if you buzzed the 375.  That would give a better service via Caxton St to the city & valley.  You could perhaps re-route the 475 via Huessler Tce and Castlemaine Sts too though that would take away connectivity with the train at Milton.  As for arguments at the PA end, you guys should be aware that when heading towards the PA Hospital on O'Keefe St, you can't turn right onto the Boggo Rd Eastern Busway.  It would mean if you did travel via the busway ex-Gabba, you couldn't do the block there in its current form.  Personally I think that the route from the Valley to PA isn't too bad all things considered.

Perhaps you could make it turn left at the Gabba and go via Deshon St and the Eastern Busway to the PA to replace a rerouted 200

[somebody]

Personally I think that the route from the Valley to PA isn't too bad all things considered.

I agree, the trouble comes in when you ask the question why the L shape to serve the CBD?  Going straight up to RBH would reduce the need for the other routes to cover that section, and they could use the Northern Busway.

[achiruel]

This could be provided by another service though couldn't it?  Doesn't need to continue to Rainworth.

No, it doesn't.  As long as the Main St-Buranda link is maintained I would be happy

Bit confused by your comments about terminating at PAH removing service to Buranda shops.  PAH = Buranda shops at least with regards to express stops.

I was assuming terminating at PAH meant the busway station, which is a fair walk from the shopping centre.  I believe the current terminus in Tottenham St is used because it makes turning easier.  I think using the express stop for layover is not a good idea due to the need for 100/124/125/117 etc to stop there.

[somebody]

I don't see a reason to mess with the Tottenham St terminus.  Sorry for any confusion.

[SteelPan]

Other than the fact, it actually serves the people that live in the region - like it's a public transport SERVICE or something?   

Have you actually ever used either service? 

  - have I ever actually used the service - "MY" service - EXCUSE YOU friend - Andrew below might also find this interesting - do the numbers "36" and "22" mean anything to you - ANYTIME, you want an education on the now 475 and 476 service - I'll be happy to give it to you!  Hands off "my" bus service thanks very much....

[SurfRail]

"MY" The public's service

Fixed

do the numbers "36" and "22" mean anything to you

No, and why should they?  I don't care about historical routes, they are only of passing interest for gunzels and have no ongoing relevance to how the transport network should function today.  Same as the tram line that was built to Fernberg for no apparent reason other than a manager lived near the terminus and pushed for it!

Hands off "my" the public's bus service thanks very much

Fixed again.

Do you actually live at the Rainworth terminus of the 476?  What's stopping you from walking a few hundred metres down the road to catch a 475?  I have to walk 700m to catch my bus, you don't hear me complaining about the fact it doesn't come up my street.  

Fact is I consider deviations like the 476 to be tantamount to stealing, and I will continue to advocate that they be removed.  If that puts out some people, stiff.  Mature and grown-up cities need to have these discussions because the current situation is cr%p, and continuing to make exceptions and exemptions for people who want a bus to their front door will mean that it is always cr%p.

[#Metro]

Fact is I consider deviations like the 476 to be tantamount to stealing, and I will continue to advocate that they be removed.  If that puts out some people, stiff.  Mature and grown-up cities need to have these discussions because the current situation is cr%p, and continuing to make exceptions and exemptions for people who want a bus to their front door will mean that it is always cr%p.

Some lessons for BUZ 200 retention advocates.... It's JUST Deshon street...

[#Metro]

Oh yes, and I have to do my duties  when I see waste like 476:

CUT!!

[somebody]

Radical proposal time:

475's Rainworth bit chopped off to run to QSBS via Park Rd and the Cultural Centre!

[somebody]

I've noticed that this doesn't serve the inbound express stop @ PA.  It would raise the profile of this service if it did.  Is that a reason to re-route it?  I guess it might be a tad longer, but Cornwall/Ayr/Brisbane Sts seems like it would be doable.