393

[somebody]

Previously, the 393 ran from Teneriffe Ferry to Bowen Hills Station, near RB&WH, northern busway, Roma St and then to Herschel St stop 1.

Now, it wasn't possible to continue the street routing along Roma St once the KGSBS opened, so it was simply terminated at Normanby, presumably because the bus parking area is nearby.  This largely made the route pointless, especially because it has poor operating hours.

I think that it should continue to the Turbot St portal where it can either resume its old terminus, loop around Ann St to terminate at Turbot St 130, or reverse the direction on Herschel St to terminate at stop 136.  In any event, this will be more expensive to operate than the KGSBS route, but far better to have a useful route than a useless one.

[O_128]

I say cull it.

[SurfRail]

Terminate at RBWH, cut frequency to something more commensurate with use (15 minute frequency is pointless if the route does not actually fill much latent travel demand) and use the resources on improving existing INB services like the 330 and 333.

[Mr X]

BUZ it.

[STB]

With the amount of people at QUT Kelvin Grove (seriously can be up to 50 students/staff appearing on the platform every 3-5mins at peak hour), and with buses from Chermside and RBWH (66, 330, 333) usually filled with passengers from those destinations, extending the 393 to Roma St would be a massive help.  It's a regular occurance that people get left behind Roma Street-QUT Kelvin Grove-Roma Street, even in the middle of the day when during the semester!  One time it took me nearly half an hour just to board a bus at QUT Kelvin Grove to Roma St, simply because each bus that turned up were already almost full, and there was at least 100+ students waiting on the platform.

[ozbob]

Yes, have to agree STB.  Simply extending the 393 to Roma St would be a great start.  Would it be best to terminate at KGSBS and turn around and head back?

[somebody]

Yes, have to agree STB.  Simply extending the 393 to Roma St would be a great start.  Would it be best to terminate at KGSBS and turn around and head back?

A cheaper option than anything I've proposed.  I think the problem would be that there is nowhere to layover.  If this isn't an issue, you could traverse KGSBS without serving it.  I expect there is sufficient capacity between the 330/333/340/66 for KGSBS people.  Not true?

Another option would be to extend the 222 or 111 to QUT KG.

[STB]

Yes, have to agree STB.  Simply extending the 393 to Roma St would be a great start.  Would it be best to terminate at KGSBS and turn around and head back?

A cheaper option than anything I've proposed.  I think the problem would be that there is nowhere to layover.  If this isn't an issue, you could traverse KGSBS without serving it.  I expect there is sufficient capacity between the 330/333/340/66 for KGSBS people.  Not true?

Another option would be to extend the 222 or 111 to QUT KG.

The majority of people board at KGSBS and Roma St.  I usually board any of those services at Cultural Centre as I know that if I attempt to board at Roma St I may not be able to board the first service that turns up.  Basically after Roma St heading to QUT KG, it's standing room only, sorry bus full, and this can occur throughout the day, not limited to the peaks.  And occurs on any service, 330, 333, 340, 66.

Laying over shouldn't be a problem as it can easily just blank run through QSBS or use the turnaround heading towards QSBS near KGSBS.  Same with heading from QUT KG to Roma St, there's a layover/turnaround facility that isn't currently used, except for some blank runs and non-passenger services that are 'driver under instruction'.

I also think based on my observations that the 393 link between Bowen Hills and Teneriffe could be safely axed.  Patronage is low from my times travelling between those areas and anyone wanting to go there can easily just catch the train at Bowen Hills to Fortitude Valley and transfer onto either the CityGlider or the 199.  I still think there needs to be a link between Bowen Hills and RBWH however, so I don't think you can scrap the 393 completely that easily, there is still a level of demand happening based on my observations, not as high as the QUT KG-Roma St-KGSBS section but still with a level of significance.

Also of interest, I caught the 330 this afternoon to go and get lunch at Chermside and there were about 50 students who boarded that service, which already had a near fully seated load.  This bus was basically full to Chermside, seating and standing load.  I stood for the whole journey and once I got off at Chermside I noticed that the load on the 330 was still very high with standees heading to Bracken Ridge despite emptying a lot of passengers at Chermside. This was between 2:30pm and 3pm.

EDIT: If the 393 ran between KGSBS and Bowen Hills via the INB, that would help massively.  One would also have to ensure that the timetables be created properly to allow an equal spread of service between the 66, 330, 333, 340 routes.  During peak hour, if it acted as a sweeper, that would also help massively.

[somebody]

Laying over shouldn't be a problem as it can easily just blank run through QSBS or use the turnaround heading towards QSBS near KGSBS.  Same with heading from QUT KG to Roma St, there's a layover/turnaround facility that isn't currently used, except for some blank runs and non-passenger services that are 'driver under instruction'.

You've lost me here. If you go to QSBS you need to loop around the snake (pointless), or continue to Parliament or Hope St.

EDIT: If the 393 ran between KGSBS and Bowen Hills via the INB, that would help massively.  One would also have to ensure that the timetables be created properly to allow an equal spread of service between the 66, 330, 333, 340 routes.  During peak hour, if it acted as a sweeper, that would also help massively.

Interesting suggestion here; I like it.  You should be able to increase frequency to improve the take up of the option of getting off the train at Bowen Hills and getting the 393 to INB destinations, which would really help with dead running.  I wonder if you could stop on/near Hudd St?

[Golliwog]

I also like the suggestion of extending the 111 (or any other Roma St terminating route) to at least QUT KG. If the are only destined for the bus layover facilities before Normanby, you could easily access those using the turn around at QUT, or if they were extended to the hospital, I believe there is a round about at the bottom of the off ramp before the buses head onto Bowen Bridge Rd.

At the same time though, I've also thought terminating all the northside routes at CC isn't a smart move as it ties up buses with passengers interchanging who may only be trying to get a few stops further. I've always though The Gabba, with it turnaround and layover facilities would make a good terminus for those routes.

[somebody]

The problem with extending a BUZ, of course, is what's it going to do at 10pm?  Still run presumably empty to QUT KG?

66 extension to Bowen Hills anyone?

[Golliwog]

I don't pretend to have patronage data, but it is only an extra 2km to QUT KG, and the first 500m of that it would be doing anyway to get to the Normanby bus turn around. If you extended routes in both directions though, you might be able to remove some/all of the 66 runs depending on what kind of capacity is needed.

[STB]

The problem with extending a BUZ, of course, is what's it going to do at 10pm?  Still run presumably empty to QUT KG?

66 extension to Bowen Hills anyone?

QUT Kelvin Grove does have lectures and tutorials right up until 9pm at night, same with QUT Gardens Point.  You'd be amazed just how busy it can be at the uni at that time of night!  Not as busy as during the day but still quite a few people around! In the mornings they generally start at around 8am.  The library at QUT KG and GP is open until 9:45pm at night Monday to Thursday (Think on Fridays they shut about an hour earlier...?)  If I had to choose a span of hours for this 393 route, I'd suggest it run at least every 5mins between 7am to 10am and then every 10mins till 3pm, then back to every 5mins until last service at perhaps 8pm at night.  Yes, there is really that much demand!  At the moment the loads are quite nasty to see.  I've also seen school kids being left behind at both the university stop on Kelvin Grove Road (345, 390) and at the busway station.

You've lost me here. If you go to QSBS you need to loop around the snake (pointless), or continue to Parliament or Hope St.

I was just throwing ideas in the air.  It can easily turnaround at KGSBS.  It could even be rostered to continue on as another route departing QSBS if the roster people think it'll cut on dead running.  But that's a detail that we shouldn't have to worry about in this instance.

[ozbob]

Media release 26 August 2011

SEQ: Bus route 393 needs a review, 'hits the wall' at Normanby!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers, calls on TransLink to review the effectiveness of 393 bus route which serves the Inner Northern Busway as part of its run.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Long waits on the Inner Northern Busway continue for many bus passengers and is a major issue, this is not 'world class' public transport, far from it. Passengers have been waiting up to 30 minutes to board a bus because the buses are full by the time they get to their stops, for example at QUT Kelvin Grove (1). Problems with full buses are occurring in both directions - peak and counter peak."

"The 393 bus carries relatively few people since its truncation to Normanby in 2008.  This has further exacerbated chronic overcrowding on the remaining bus routes (2,3).  RAIL Back On Track calls for an immediate extension of the 393 bus to at least Roma St from Normanby and a significant increase in frequency in peak hour as far as Bowen Hills.  It would need to be at least every 10 minutes.  This should encourage people to use the 393 from Bowen Hills station to Northern Busway destinations including Royal Brisbane Hospital and QUT Kelvin Grove, rather than needing to loop around via Roma St in some cases."

"It is extremely frustrating for passengers having long waits on the Inner Northern Busway to note the 393 buses passing with very few pax. These buses need to be put to work!"

"The current 393 bus route is wasteful and hardly serves anyone's needs.  If TransLink established Community Reference Groups for the various bus regions, similar to what Queensland Rail has done for the various railway lines the problems on the bus network could be more easily identified and fixed."

References:

1.  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6604.0

2.  http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/08/busway-to-rbwh-terrible-twos.html

3.  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2542.0

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org
RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org

[somebody]

What if this route was scrapped/converted into a route serving Roma St busway, Normanby, QUT KG, RCH Herston, and Fortitude Valley (stop 212)?  Bowen Hills doesn't really have any reasonable place for a bus interchange, but Brunswick St is reasonably convenient.

[SurfRail]

What if this route was scrapped/converted into a route serving Roma St busway, Normanby, QUT KG, RCH Herston, and Fortitude Valley (stop 212)?  Bowen Hills doesn't really have any reasonable place for a bus interchange, but Brunswick St is reasonably convenient.

The whole reason for the service existing is to connect Teneriffe to the RBWH and INB.  Without that, I'd say just scrap it altogether.

[somebody]

What if this route was scrapped/converted into a route serving Roma St busway, Normanby, QUT KG, RCH Herston, and Fortitude Valley (stop 212)?  Bowen Hills doesn't really have any reasonable place for a bus interchange, but Brunswick St is reasonably convenient.

The whole reason for the service existing is to connect Teneriffe to the RBWH and INB.  Without that, I'd say just scrap it altogether.

I disagree.  What if I am travelling from Geebung to RCH?  Without some form of 393 I need to double change at FV & RBH or go past my destination to change at Roma St.  Teneriffe connection can be provided via the CityGlider.  It's probably faster by the time waiting is taken into account.

[SurfRail]

I disagree.  What if I am travelling from Geebung to RCH?  Without some form of 393 I need to double change at FV & RBH or go past my destination to change at Roma St.  Teneriffe connection can be provided via the CityGlider.  It's probably faster by the time waiting is taken into account.

Bowen Hills as well obviously (I meant the inner north east-west corridor there).  I think it makes sense to retain the 393 at Bowen Hills, and eventually I see a need for a service which connects the RBWH, Ekka and Bowen Hills stations.  But I believe another route should provide extra INB capacity.  The street frontage along Abbotsford Rd is intended to be redeveloped quite intensively in coming years, and station upgrades are being looked at as well.

[somebody]

My point is that the connection between RCH & QUT KG to the northern train lines is far, far more important than the connection to Teneriffe.  Perhaps there could be a short working to Bowen Hills station in between every service.

If you really wanted to provide a fast service between Teneriffe and the INB, you'd run along Skyring Tce and Montepelier Rd, then current route, bypassing Bowen Hills station.

[ozbob]

Went for a ride on  the 393 bus (A246) this morning.  Left Normanby at 7.25am, I was on the only pax until RBWH, + 4 pax and +1 pax Bowen Hills.  Return journey 16 pax, 6 or so on at Tenneriffe SkyRing, rest mainly at Bowen Hills.  Most pax off at RBWH.  I was the only pax onboard on arrival at Normanby at 7.51am

Spoke with a few folks on board.  The 393 is a useful cross suburban run for them, the only thing that really needs to change is run it through to Roma St.  This would then assist greatly with pax loads on the INB.  At the moment it is wasted potential capacity.

[ozbob]

Went for a ride on  the 393 bus (A246) this morning.  Left Normanby at 7.25am, I was on the only pax until RBWH, + 4 pax and +1 pax Bowen Hills.  Return journey 16 pax, 6 or so on at Tenneriffe SkyRing, rest mainly at Bowen Hills.  Most pax off at RBWH.  I was the only pax onboard on arrival at Normanby at 7.51am

Spoke with a few folks on board.  The 393 is a useful cross suburban run for them, the only thing that really needs to change is run it through to Roma St.  This would then assist greatly with pax loads on the INB.  At the moment it is wasted potential capacity.

Some photographs from today's run on the 393

















Photographs R Dow 8th November 2011

[STB]

Another meme for the 393 from a QUT student.



With a comment below it from another QUT student (QUT Memes Facebook page).

I think it is no exaggeration to say that the 393 bus service is the worst thing in the world, bar nothing, period.

[somebody]

If you have some <1 year old complaints which did not receive a satisfactory response, I suggest escalating to the CEO.

[STB]

If you have some <1 year old complaints which did not receive a satisfactory response, I suggest escalating to the CEO.

Huh?  I was just sharing a meme that popped up on that Facebook page the other day which shows the frustration of students who would like to catch the 393 but have to ignore it as it doesn't service Roma St Station.

[somebody]

If you don't have prior complaints, then you need to make them.  Just making a suggestion.  Better to escalate to the CEO than whinge.