Article: Go card a touch too keen for commuter cash

[ozbob]

From the Couriermail click here!

Go card a touch too keen for commuter cash

Go card a touch too keen for commuter cash

    by: Robyn Ironside
    From: The Courier-Mail
    April 02, 2012 12:00AM

THE embattled go card system has again come under fire from commuters, with new statistics showing one fixed fare is issued for every 45 touches.

Although part of the problem lies with users unfamiliar with go card equipment, recent experiences suggest a "system failure" on some of the touch screens.

Robert Dow from commuter group Rail Back on Track said it appeared that when users touched on in the normal manner, the system was failing to recognise they had previously touched off.

"It is simply dealing out fixed fares, on buses and rail. We call on TransLink to direct Cubic to fix this problem," Mr Dow said.

"We also call on TransLink to make it clear to users that should their funds be depleted by these system issues, they can at least travel on their journey free, otherwise they may well be stranded."

Other commuters have called for a media campaign by TransLink to educate commuters about touching on and touching off, in the hope of reducing the flurry of $10 and $5 fixed fares.

More than four out of five trips taken on public transport are now paid by go card and TransLink CEO Neil Scales said they continuously monitored the performance of the smart card and the ticketing systems.

"No fixed fare issues have been identified," he said.

However, Mr Scales did encourage anyone with a grievance to contact TransLink through the call centre or website.

"TransLink has in place processes to investigate any instances where customers feel they have been charged incorrectly," he said.

"Customers can lodge a request for a refund if they feel that they have been incorrectly charged."

He said the current percentage of fixed fares was 2.2 per cent of the overall go card trips, down from 3.45 per cent for the same period the previous year.

Mr Dow urged commuters to regularly check their go card history online or by requesting a print-out from train station staff.

"You have been warned," he said.

[ozbob]

An example of the problem, a number of these issues have been reported.

==========================

Looks like there is a problem with the go card system developing.  I have already alerted TransLink previously based on a number of similar feedback reports, and will follow up again tomorrow.

My daughter had the same problem this evening at Roma St.  She also said she has noticed a lot of folks red lighting and not noticing.

9-Mar-12 08:27:25 PM    Touch off    Darra    -3.40    *
29-Mar-12 07:49:15 PM    Auto top up    Roma Street    20.00    
29-Mar-12 07:48:15 PM    Touch on    Roma Street        
29-Mar-12 07:48:15 PM    Touch off    Roma Street    -10.00    *
29-Mar-12 06:45:43 AM    Touch off    Central    -4.24    *
29-Mar-12 06:12:51 AM    Touch on    Darra

An incorrectly applied $10 fixed fare.  Adjustment applied for online. 

===========================

For those who have not seen a go card transaction history printout that you can get at a station office, herewith ..

[ozbob]

612 ABC Radio Brisbane Breakfast and 4BC News have done short follow ups on this.

Thanks for the interest!

[ozbob]

612 ABC Radio Brisbane Breakfast with Spencer Howson

--> here!

Go Card Issues (2nd April 2012)

02 April 2012 , 8:06 AM by Spencer Howson

Concerns have been raised about the number of fixed fares being issued to commuters using go cards.

Robert Dow from Rail Back on Track says that sometimes when commuters touch on the system, it's  not recognising that they have previously touched off, and so a fixed fare is given.

612 reporter Stacey Milner spoke to Robert Dow at Goodna train station, spokesperson for Translink, Matt Longland, also commented on the issue.

[ozbob]

Interview at Goodna railway station!   good old Goodna, the station that can swim.  Gave a quick tour to the intrepid reporter Stacey M.  from 612, including pointing out the interesting platform numbering!

[somebody]

I think we've established that there are system problems which cause fix fares.  User error (and deliberate error) is always going to be a problem.

It seemed like this point wasn't acknowledged by Matt Longland.

Oh, and what is with the five week sunset clause on adjustments?

[ozbob]

I think we've established that there are system problems which cause fix fares.  User error (and deliberate error) is always going to be a problem.

It seemed like this point wasn't acknowledged by Matt Longland.

Oh, and what is with the five week sunset clause on adjustments?

Indeed.  I had the opportunity to expand on the user/deliberate errors with 4BC but not sure if will make the cut.

There is irrefutable proof that something odd is occurring.  That tweet that Spencer Howson mentioned late in the interview is part of the problem I think.  There seems to be this resistance to acknowledging that the system itself has issues.   When experienced users, are getting fixed fares something is amiss.

If the population was getting errors 1 in 45 times they used bank cards at ATMs there would be an uproar ...

[ozbob]

Despite that 5 week clause, which one has to ask is it really enforceable? Seems to be able to be got around.   It is also rather mean time frame in principle IMHO.

I know of one individual who went back 2 years sorting out fixed fare adjustments...

[STB]

This is an interesting problem, but I still am yet to be convinced  that the specific problem of it not recognising that you've touched off is a widespread problem.  From me personally, I haven't had this happen to me since I started using the Go Card in 2008.  Nor have my family or friends reported this particular problem. 

I have seen people attempt to 'swipe' the card by waving it up and down (and around and around) and them getting red lights and green then red again, whom I will correct if I see it happen, usually with them thanking me, other times blaming the card for not working . 

The 'swiping' movement though, just speaking about that, I partially blame the media for using the word 'swipe' as it's obviously a different movement to 'touch', as a few passengers have told me that's what they've read in the paper and that they thought that's what they have to do to make it work.

I'll personally keep an eye as I usually do on my history and see how things go.  At this stage though my thinking that it's a rare system problem.

[somebody]

This is an interesting problem, but I still am yet to be convinced  that the specific problem of it not recognising that you've touched off is a widespread problem.  From me personally, I haven't had this happen to me since I started using the Go Card in 2008.  Nor have my family or friends reported this particular problem. 

I have seen people attempt to 'swipe' the card by waving it up and down (and around and around) and them getting red lights and green then red again, whom I will correct if I see it happen, usually with them thanking me, other times blaming the card for not working . 

The 'swiping' movement though, just speaking about that, I partially blame the media for using the word 'swipe' as it's obviously a different movement to 'touch', as a few passengers have told me that's what they've read in the paper and that they thought that's what they have to do to make it work.

I'll personally keep an eye as I usually do on my history and see how things go.  At this stage though my thinking that it's a rare system problem.

If it shows a green light at some point, hasn't it worked?

If touch on/touch off occurs at the same time then either you have touched on at the rear door, used the wrong direction of a unidirectional reader or there is a system problem.  Any other possibilities?

[ozbob]

This is an interesting problem, but I still am yet to be convinced  that the specific problem of it not recognising that you've touched off is a widespread problem.  From me personally, I haven't had this happen to me since I started using the Go Card in 2008.  Nor have my family or friends reported this particular problem. 

LOL, the evidence is clear.  It happens, and has happened to a number here now.  The old TransLink culture, must be the user ...

There are definite system issues.  Time the system was sorted.  5 week refund policy, what an insult!

Just because it has not happened to you (yet) doesn't mean it is not a problem.  The evidence is otherwise.

If people cannot use the go card properly time for some improved education. How about helping hands out on the network and spotting those who are not touching properly and give them a crash course?

[ozbob]

4KQ and 973FM have done a follow up as well.

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks ..

I refer to the Courier Mail article today and confirm that I have been subject to a number of $5 changes for "not touching off" despite being most pedantic about ensuring a green light acknowledgement that the reader accepted my card.

However, I am writing about another Go Card issue.  Are you aware of the totally unacceptable limitation on refunds for Go Card errors?

Since getting a Go Card I have only ever travelled on the Eight Mile Plains/Sunnybank to City and return runs using my card.  I recently got a password for my card and checked the transactions.  It showed a trip from Forrest Lakes to Eight Mile Plains, which I did not take.  Furthermore, it showed the travel took about 30 minutes and did not involve a transfer.  When queried with Translink, the supervisor stated "...it was obviously a GPS error".

I requested a refund the difference between this fare and my regular City/Eight Mile Plains trip.  The response was that if I did not advise of an error – their error not mine – within 8 weeks, the policy was that no refund would be made.

This is morally reprehensible; their error and I have to wear it.  The amount is only small but the principle is the issue.  If Go Card/Translink has made the error, there can be no limitation on a refund.

Keep up the good work.

[ozbob]

Feedback received, thanks.

I wonder if you could please push this complaint through to Translink, because I have had no luck.  Some background first.  The go card system uses a fairly common proximity card suite of equipment.  It's the same as the one in London, and even the same as the door systems in my workplace.

Translink have not programmed the card readers properly.  I can hold my wallet, containing my go card and workplace card, to the door at my workplace and the door opens.  When I try the same thing on a Translink reader, the system gives an error.  I have done some research into this, including contact with the manufacturer of the system.

The problem is simple.  The card readers in my workplace, when they sense the presence of a card, essentially broadcasts the question "is there a workplace card out there?".  My workplace card answers back, but the Translink card remains silent because the question asked was specific.

By contrast, the Translink reader broadcasts the question "is there a card out there?".  Both cards then answer back, and the reader is confused.  If Translink simply programmed the readers in the way they are supposed to be programmed, this problem would not occur.

The card system has been designed by clever engineers who knew that people could end up with more than one of these cards in their wallets, but Translink is too inept to properly implement it!

You can see this drive me nuts!  Hopefully you can bring it to their attention please.

[ozbob]

Hope the CM publish the blog comments here today. Should be interesting reading ...

[ozbob]

I think we've established that there are system problems which cause fix fares.  User error (and deliberate error) is always going to be a problem.

It seemed like this point wasn't acknowledged by Matt Longland.

Oh, and what is with the five week sunset clause on adjustments?

It says 8 weeks here --> http://translink.com.au/tickets-and-fares/go-card/report-an-incorrect-fare

[somebody]

Feedback received, thanks.

I wonder if you could please push this complaint through to Translink, because I have had no luck.  Some background first.  The go card system uses a fairly common proximity card suite of equipment.  It's the same as the one in London, and even the same as the door systems in my workplace.

Translink have not programmed the card readers properly.  I can hold my wallet, containing my go card and workplace card, to the door at my workplace and the door opens.  When I try the same thing on a Translink reader, the system gives an error.  I have done some research into this, including contact with the manufacturer of the system.

The problem is simple.  The card readers in my workplace, when they sense the presence of a card, essentially broadcasts the question "is there a workplace card out there?".  My workplace card answers back, but the Translink card remains silent because the question asked was specific.

By contrast, the Translink reader broadcasts the question "is there a card out there?".  Both cards then answer back, and the reader is confused.  If Translink simply programmed the readers in the way they are supposed to be programmed, this problem would not occur.

The card system has been designed by clever engineers who knew that people could end up with more than one of these cards in their wallets, but Translink is too inept to properly implement it!

You can see this drive me nuts!  Hopefully you can bring it to their attention please.

Surely that is not something which RAILBoT can do.  Isn't there an ombudsman?

[ozbob]

All good feedback, posting it will mean it is read widely.

I am happy to raise it directly. If the go card can be made a bit easier to use why not?

[Stillwater]

It could very well be the key to the current problem with touch on/off.  It is better to say to Translink 'here is something you should investigate' rather than 'there is a problem, go fix it'.  The mechanism for raising this issue would be the PTUG, but that has been disbanded.

RailBOT can raise the issue or the person can raise the issue directly with Translink. It doesn't matter. People's aversion to paper (tickets) also seems to extend to not bothering to write a letter.  Tweets, call centre contact, voice messages and emails disappear into the ether, but a letter lays down a paper evidence trail.

The very fact the possible problem has been mentioned here could be sufficient for action to be taken.

[SurfRail]

The mechanism for raising this issue would be the PTUG, but that has been disbanded.

That is certainly news to me.

[somebody]

The mechanism for raising this issue would be the PTUG, but that has been disbanded.

That is certainly news to me.

Isn't it PTAG?

I'd be surprised if it was continued with.  It's an ALP idea.  The LNP will want to do something different.

[#Metro]

but that has been disbanded.

Say what? PTAG is a good forum because if it is not raised in PTAG.... it will be raised on the front page of the Courier Mail!! 

All good feedback, posting it will mean it is read widely.

I am happy to raise it directly. If the go card can be made a bit easier to use why not?

I agree. The number of smart cards is going to explode. Often the errors are taken as faults and pax are waved through by bus drivers - TL is losing money on this one!