Chopping out excess bus stops does NOT impact on coverage

[Mr X]

There are around 22ish bus stops on the 196 out to Fairfield, it's well known on this board that they have basically been placed at every conceivable spot not taken up by a turning lane or car parking.
If you chopped out half of these, there'd be no loss of catchment at all.. If in doubt, cut it out!

(ignore the smaller circles, that's from an earlier stuff up)
These catchments are based on outbound stops.

Current stop catchments:


If half were given the chop:


Predicted response from residents (hence why it isn't done):


- HBU

[Stillwater]

Is there any way of identifying the numbers of people who get on and off at individual bus stops so you can get an understanding of average usage over a year?

[achiruel]

With Go Card data, it shouldn't be too hard.

[Stillwater]

Well, that would put the science into which bus stops should close -- a combination of examining low patronage stops and their close proximity to the next stop.

[#Metro]

CUT!!

[aldonius]

There are potential privacy issues, but it should be a fairly simple task to anonymise data down to boardings/alightings at each stop. Following that, cut the worst performers.

[BrizCommuter]

So what happens if a bus stop used by just a few people a day is cut along the route, but it's outside an aged care home, and walking to the next stop would be pushing it for these few passengers? Just a bit of food for thought.

Anyone with walking impediments on this forum?

[STB]

So what happens if a bus stop used by just a few people a day is cut along the route, but it's outside an aged care home, and walking to the next stop would be pushing it for these few passengers? Just a bit of food for thought.

Anyone with walking impediments on this forum?

Agreed.  Any bus stop removals need to take these sorts of things into account, ie: there should always be a bus stop available outside a hospital, an aged care facility, a school etc, regardless of the loadings.

[#Metro]

So what happens if a bus stop used by just a few people a day is cut along the route, but it's outside an aged care home, and walking to the next stop would be pushing it for these few passengers? Just a bit of food for thought.

Anyone with walking impediments on this forum?

Naturally, TL should look at the geographical location of the stop. Most stops are unlikely to be outside aged care places, though. A quick look at Google maps would reveal...

[STB]

So what happens if a bus stop used by just a few people a day is cut along the route, but it's outside an aged care home, and walking to the next stop would be pushing it for these few passengers? Just a bit of food for thought.

Anyone with walking impediments on this forum?

Naturally, TL should look at the geographical location of the stop. Most stops are unlikely to be outside aged care places, though. A quick look at Google maps would reveal...

I'm assuming you are talking about the route at hand?  I can assure you that through the rest of the network there are plenty of stops outside aged care facilities, route 223/224 comes to mind straightaway.

EDIT: I should borrow that crying baby picture for some of these Redlands 9 to 5 commuters .

[aldonius]

The way I think about this now is in terms of 'consolidating' stops where possible. It's about avoiding having to stop for 1 person at a time 100m apart.
Aged care stops and similar, if they only attract a few people a day, are unlikely to impact running times much anyway, because we work on hail to ride and most of the time the bus won't stop there anyway.
On the gripping hand, if the street layout suits, one could consolidate a neighbouring stop into the one outside the aged care facility...

[#Metro]

Current stop catchments:

HBU, what sized catchments are you using? 800m or 400m?
I would suggest in hilly areas, the catchment size be around 500m - 600 m.

Please, when making diagrams, specify the circle sizes. 

[Mr X]

I am using a 400m radius from the stop.
The smaller circles were from when I stuffed up and used 200m instead.. oops, lazy people right there 

[BrizCommuter]

I am using a 400m radius from the stop.
The smaller circles were from when I stuffed up and used 200m instead.. oops, lazy people right there 

Just another point, using radial catchment areas is potentially flawed. The walking distance from a bus stop to a home/business/other destination will be dependant upon the side road (and occasionally path) layout. Thus for example a home 300m as the crow flies from a bus stop could vary between a minimum of 300m to a maximum of more than a kilometre walking distance from the bus stop. Its a lot more complicated than just drawing some circles!

[Mr X]

Agreed, for me my local stop is 200m or so away as the crow flies but is a 400m walk..  

It would take forever to measure 400m from every stop in regards to road layouts though. The point still remains, many stops can be removed with a very little loss in coverage. For example there is a stop around 100m before another around the corner and it only benefits a single street as people on the other side of the road can't use it as there is no pedestrian crossing. A good case of that was a dangerously placed stop up the road located on a traffic island and half the people would run across the road on a blind corner   the only people who could feasibly use it safely were those in a row of around 10 houses. thank god it was removed.

[#Metro]

BrizCommuter is right, but again, let's not spend too much time and effort on the microscopic aspects of the larger issue - the issue is that these services are too damn slow and we want them sped up. How do we do that?

I agree that there are too many stops and many could be cut to save money and increase speed to make a more attractive service than
a snail-style slow PT service that crawls along the road and stops absolutely everywhere. St. Ita's bus stop, I am looking at you!!

People are willing to pay more and catch more a service that is fast and frequent, i.e. one that doesn't waste their time.

There are a number of stops that are too close together - outside St Itas and three for a park on Fairfield Road, and three on Browning Street- that is just too much.
The one in the middle of Browning street should be cut and the ones close to intersections kept so that people can transfer easily and maximum walk radius is retained.

199 has a stop almost at the ferry - pointless -

CUT!!

[Mr X]

St Ita's is one of my three I/B stops (it's back up C), my usual is the one after (the one you hate  ). St Ita's stop services a school and is next to a traffic light so it's usually well patronised.

Agree about Fairfield Park- CUT
The one after the intersection to Gladstone Rd (Dorchester or whatever)- CUT
196 has a stop in the middle of an intersection on Vulture St and an unofficial stop 50m before it that has a "hail n ride" sign AND then a stop on Browning St 100m after... CUT!!
TWO stops right outside Fairfield Gardens (not including the interchange)... CUT
Inbound a stop 100m before another at Fenton St- CUT
One two blocks before the cultural centre- CUT

[#Metro]

Agree about Fairfield Park- CUT

I agree, why does it need THREE stops?

The one after the intersection to Gladstone Rd (Dorchester or whatever)- CUT

Not sure where this one is.

196 has a stop in the middle of an intersection on Vulture St and an unofficial stop 50m before it that has a "hail n ride" sign AND then a stop on Browning St 100m after... CUT!!

Browning Street is a shocker

TWO stops right outside Fairfield Gardens (not including the interchange)... CUT

There is one on the corner outside a dentist there - I think that should stay because most people don't want to waste their time while the bus does a loop and goes into the shopping centre car park, waste more time and then stop at the terminus.

Inbound a stop 100m before another at Fenton St- CUT

this is on a hill, so I would suggest careful analysis here.

One two blocks before the cultural centre- CUT

Oh yes, the one near IGA - ridiculous

CUT!!

[Mr X]

^^ There is also one directly outside the shops on Fairfield Rd (after the one at the dentist) and I have been on 196s that have stopped at it  

Next route: 230
Heidelberg St stops are horrid

I was driving down a street somewhere in Holland Park (Wishart Rd?) and it had a bus stop every 100m...  

[morb]

the ones close to intersections kept so that people can transfer easily and maximum walk radius is retained.

199 has a stop almost at the ferry - pointless -

CUT!!

So, the stop at the ferry - so that people can transfer easily - pointless?

[Mr X]

Isn't that stop the terminus?  

[achiruel]

the ones close to intersections kept so that people can transfer easily and maximum walk radius is retained.

199 has a stop almost at the ferry - pointless -

CUT!!

So, the stop at the ferry - so that people can transfer easily - pointless?

I think tt is referring to the stop that's around 100m (maybe less) before the ferry stop.