Article: Warning of need for trains, trams to Chadstone

[ozbob]

From the Melbourne Age click here!

Warning of need for trains, trams to Chadstone


http://images.theage.com.au/2011/12/23/2857683/jh_2412_729_chadstone_20111223192933417892-420x0.jpg

The Outer Circle railway that ran from Alamein to Oakleigh in the 1890s. Photo: Supplied

Warning of need for trains, trams to Chadstone
Adam Carey
December 24, 2011

The proposed $500 million expansion of Chadstone shopping centre will create gridlock on the roads and should be rejected by the Baillieu government, unless it can extend rail and tram services there.

So says the Public Transport Users Association, which has called on the government to revive a long-lost stretch of railway track that ran from Alamein to Oakleigh until 1895.

Today, linear parkways run along much of the land where the short-lived Outer Circle railway from Fairfield to Oakleigh used to be. The line was built in 1890 but decommissioned just five years later.

''A railway line to Chadstone could be achieved by extending the Alamein line to Oakleigh via East Malvern and Chadstone,'' the association's president, Daniel Bowen, said. ''It would alleviate traffic chaos around Chadstone, complete a missing link in Melbourne's rail network and provide extra capacity.''

In response, a spokeswoman for Minister for Public Transport Terry Mulder said the government was pushing for a better bus terminus to improve transport at the shopping centre.

''This would be centrally located, potentially with an enclosed waiting area for bus passengers and real-time information displays,'' spokeswoman Larissa Garvin said.

But Mr Bowen said improved bus services, although needed, were not enough to end shoppers' over-reliance on driving to get there.

''The car parks at Chadstone are already unable to cope with the volumes of visitors, and nearby roads are regularly gridlocked,'' Mr Bowen said.

''If public transport services remain as they are today, it would be a disaster to upgrade the shopping centre.''

Currently, 10 of the 14 bus routes that stop at Chadstone do so no more frequently than once an hour on weekends. Some do not run at all on Sundays.

''The buses at Chadstone are not coping - they are either hopelessly infrequent or packed to bursting,'' Mr Bowen said.

City of Stonnington Council voted this month to ask Planning Minister Matthew Guy to amend the planning scheme so the proposed expansion could be considered.

Developers propose to build two new floors of retail space and a hotel at Chadstone - which is already the largest shopping centre in Australia. Their plans include an extra 1300 car spaces, although the number of car spaces per 100 square metres of retail space will be reduced.

Public consultation on the proposal begins on January 19.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/warning-of-need-for-trains-trams-to-chadstone-20111223-1p8oz.html

http://images.theage.com.au/2011/12/23/2857681/jh_2412_729_chadstone2_20111223193208613600-420x0.jpg

Part of the Outer Circle railway in 1940. Photo: Supplied

[Gazza]

Buses are "not enough" for a shopping center?
Talk about modal bias.

[#Metro]

Any rail extension would probably cost more than the shopping centre expansion! And there already is a train station - Hugesdale about a km or so from Chadstone. Actually there are TWO stations - holmesglen as well.

These low frequency spur lines are annoying. The Alamein line should be closed, ripped up and replaced by busway feeding into the nearest main train line. That way buses can do the suburbs and terminate at the rail station while having decent frequency.

[ozbob]

As a lad I attended Chadstone High School for a few years, closed now.  Have witnessed the growth and growth of Chadstone Shopping Centre over the years, it is huge shopping centre these days.  Traffic is an absolute mess.

The outer circle ROW is actually intact essentially.  It is a series of linear parks. You can track it easily on google maps. I doubt though if the line would be pushed back through, Monash Freeway, Waverley Road, Dandenong Road would be  major challenges, as well as the neighbouring residential areas.

There are lot of buses that service Chadstone, some bus priority might be the go.

Alamein is a very useful service.  I doubt that it would be closed ever.

Hughesdale  station is a relatively long way from the shopping Centre, too far for most too walk.  There are buses that run along Poath Road.

[Gazza]

For the Dandenong Rd entrance:

850m  from Hughesdale Station
600m from O.C.L alignment.

Yup, lets spend Hundreds of millions for a 250m saving in walk distance.

No reason you couldn't do a super high frequency shuttle from Hughesdale. Very short run and layover time due to the short distance.

Problem, PTUA?

[#Metro]

Gazza, your post reminds me of something with regards to feeder connections.

Melbourne has new extreme-frequency feeder buses between Melbourne Uni and also Monash Uni and rail. They run at frequencies around 2-5 minutes all day. 601 and I forgot what the other one was. Pre-paid too.

Not all feeders are equal, some more priority than others.
This sets the stage for the Frequent Feeder Network, the next stage after Core Frequent Network (Bus) is complete.

[ozbob]

http://chadstoneshopping.com.au/getting_here

By Train

Chadstone is located close to four train stations:

    Oakleigh, Hughesdale and Murrumbeena stations on the Dandenong, Cranbourne or Pakenham lines
    Holmesglen Station on the Glen Waverley line

A short bus trip completes the journey to Chadstone from these stations. However, for the more energetic, the Hughesdale station is only a short 10-15 minute walk along Poath Road to Chadstone Shopping Centre.

Chadstone is located in Zones 1 & 2 of the metropolitan fare system. For train, tram and bus information call Metlink on 131 638 or visit metlinkmelbourne.com.au
By Bus

With over 900 bus movements per week, from 13 suburban bus routes, Chadstone is easily accessible by bus, as all drop off and pick up from Chadstone frequently.

A map is available from the Customer Service Desks showing the individual bus bay locations for your return journey.

Chadstone is easily accessible by bus with 13 suburban bus routes stopping at the centre.

From Oakleigh Station take one of the following bus routes:

    903 'To Altona' to get to Chadstone.
    742, 800, 802, 804 or 862 (towards Chadstone)
    900 (towards Caulfield)

Hughesdale Station is just a 10-15 minute walk along Poath Road to the shopping centre or take bus Route 767 (towards Box Hill).

From Murrumbeena Station take bus Route 822 (towards Chadstone)

From Holmesglen Station take bus Route 624 or 903 (towards Chadstone)

Chadstone is located in Zone 1 & 2 of the metropolitan fare system.

Please be aware that limited services operate on Sundays and Public Holidays

For train, tram and bus information call Metlink on 131 638 or visit metlinkmelbourne.com.au

[ozbob]

Melbourne had a number of interesting little cross suburban lines.  There once was a line connecting St Kilda to Windsor.

This map gives an idea of where things fit in



From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_closed_railway_stations_in_Melbourne

[Gazza]

The thing with shopping centers is, having it on a line haul route is not enough. If you don't have decent local services from all around, then you still get parking chaos. This is what happens at Chermisde, the 333 is nice, but the rest is rubbish....They are like a mini CBD that draws people in from a radius all around.

Now, A Cities CBD is big enough, and draws people from far enough to warrant rail.
But a shopping center isn't as big, and perhaps draws people in from a lesser distance (Commuting 70km each way per day might be worth it, not the same for just doing some shopping)
I do acknowledge people from country areas come into Brisbane occasionally for a 'big shop', but that's a bit different.
So It's a bit silly of them to poo poo buses, if the majority of center visitors will still have to do them.

I think, from their perspective, the first issue they should have pushed is the poor frequency, and lack of Sunday services. That's a very 'down to earth', obvious solution to the issue, and much harder for the Governmanr to talk their way out of.

My idea for a route just being an armchair planner would be Ashburton, High St, Warrigal Rd, Chadstone (Future) Bus interchange, Poath Rd, Hughesdale. (Possibility to start the route further west at Glen Iris)
Connect 3 rail lines, and two shopping areas over 5.6km.  
Thats my mindset for bus routes, make them simple, direct, but also, try and get near lots of useful destinations, and frequent. One pax might be using it like a rail feeder, another to get to the shops, another just to go cross town, etc etc.



What is the nearest tram route? If that is an easy extension then I guess no harm in that.

[ozbob]

The easiest thing would be to extend the trams from Caulfield  along Dandenong Road to Chadstone. (There is a route that goes along Waverley Road to East Malvern, but would be a lot more difficult to continue along Waverley Road and then up Chadstone Road to the centre.)

[#Metro]

Looks like they need to rationalise the bus numbers in Melbourne.

[ozbob]

Interesting 'footnote' to this discussion ..

From the Melbourne Age click here!

Hundreds stung by holiday parking grinches

Hundreds stung by holiday parking grinches
December 30, 2011 - 12:00AM

HUNDREDS of shoppers who joined the annual rush to Chadstone shopping centre for the Boxing Day sales got stung with an extra expense they probably didn't bargain for, with the local council issuing about 400 parking fines.

"In the order of 400 infringement notices were issued . . . for cars parked illegally in permit zones, on nature strips, in 'no stopping' areas, and within 10 metres of an intersection," a spokeswoman for the Stonnington Council said.

The fine for parking in a permit zone without a valid permit is $73, so the infringement notices — one for every 400 shoppers who visited the centre — stand to add almost $30,000 to the council's coffers.

An estimated 160,000 people visited Chadstone on Boxing Day.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/hundreds-stung-by-holiday-parking-grinches-20111229-1pejb.html