BrizCommuter world fare comparison 2012

[BrizCommuter]

http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/12/2012-world-fare-comparison.html
Not good news again for SE Queensland commuters, unless you happen to be from Norway.

[#Metro]

Oslo - $4.42
London (Underground/Overground) - $4.10
Brisbane - $3.58
London (National Rail) - $3.50
Sydney - $3.40
Stockholm - $3.19
Adelaide - $3.09
Melbourne - $3.02
Berlin - $2.94
Auckland - $2.44
Copenhagen - $2.40
Vancouver - $2.40
Helsinki - $2.34
NYC (Subway) - $2.22
Paris - $2.17
Perth - $1.95
Tokyo (Japan Rail) - $1.91
Tucson - $1.57
Los Angeles - $1.48
Santiago - $1.17
Hong Kong - $0.71
Moscow - $0.64
Shanghai - $0.47
Mexico City - $0.21
Cairo - $0.16

A few comments.

Implicit within you comparison is the suggestion that similar services should be priced similarly, and that prices are a function of distance.

Your blog compares different cities and their prices, but different cities have different networks and values. These things are implicit.

Importantly, there isn't an explanation or analysis as to why fares are so high (and it is not due to low subsidy levels - subsidy levels are amongst the highest on Earth). I also doubt that it is due to city density either - Australian cities look less dense but the threshold for "urbanised" is much lower for Australia 200 dwellings/km2 I think it is, whereas for overseas places for somewhere to be considered urbanised it is at 400 dwellings/km2. The effect of this is to make Australian cities look less dense than they really are IMHO.

Secondly there may be different proportions of welfare versus patronage routes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_area#Australia

It is easy to make a simple price comparison, but unless the underlying reasons why we don't get decent value for money from the system are identified, then a solution won't really come along.

[petey3801]

The other problem with simple price comparisons is that it does not take into account the living conditions/pay rates etc. in the other countries.

For example, a country with an average salary of say $52,000pa paying $3.00/km are actually paying the same amount as a country with an average salary of $26,000pa paying $1.50/km.

These things really need to be taken into account for price comparisions, or else it's simply sensationalist reporting not showing the real facts.

Edit: Not saying BrisCommuters blog is sensationalist reporting without all the facts, just a broad statement about this type of 'survey' used particularly in newspapers (Courier Mail etc.).

[BrizCommuter]

There is never going to be a perfect study comparing fares between cities as there are so many variables. It should also be remembered that most of BrizCommuter's readership does not come from RBoT.

BrizCommuter did consider looking at average salaries, but it would have taken too long. From figures looked at in a few cities, Brisbane is still relatively expensive even taking into account average salaries.

Going back to Tramtrains comments, Brisbane's relatively high subsidy will be due to a variety of factors. Some, not mentioned may be gross operating inefficiencies (I'm looking at you QR!). What is QRs budget compared to other Aussie rail operators?

[somebody]

Going back to Tramtrains comments, Brisbane's relatively high subsidy will be due to a variety of factors. Some, not mentioned may be gross operating inefficiencies (I'm looking at you QR!). What is QRs budget compared to other Aussie rail operators?

I'd look at the bus system for gross operating inefficencies on the network planning side also.

Compared to Cityrail OTOH:
Cityrail: $3bn/year
QR: $600m/year

Patronage: 300mil/year for Cityrail, 57mil/year for QR.

Cityrail are grossly inefficient.  Back office/corporate employs >3000 people, train crew ~3400 and station staff ~1400.  Both are awful, and share 2 man crew, "stand clear doors closing" messages, timetable slowdowns to improve reliability statistics.  And aggressive defensive of mediocrity.  Reluctance to add services applies to both, but the excuse in Cityrail's case is "who is going to pay for it?".  Which completely ignores the point that timetable slowdowns increase costs.

Cityrail's farebox recovery is approx 28% now, down from 31-33% thanks to (IMO) an attempted re-election policy to lower the price for long distance commuters.

[HappyTrainGuy]

I just want to say be careful when you start talking total funding figures as both operators go different ways with regards to how they go about operating such as rollingstock/track maintainence, rollingstock types, infrastructure, third party stuff etc.

[ozbob]

The comparison is useful nonetheless.  It confirms the feedback we and others receive, the results of our survey, fares are perceived as too expensive in SEQ.   I wonder if this perception will change as punters get stuck into free travel ...

[#Metro]

I'd look at the bus system for gross operating inefficencies on the network planning side also.

Compared to Cityrail OTOH:
Cityrail: $3bn/year
QR: $600m/year

Patronage: 300mil/year for Cityrail, 57mil/year for QR.

Cityrail are grossly inefficient.  Back office/corporate employs >3000 people, train crew ~3400 and station staff ~1400.  Both are awful, and share 2 man crew, "stand clear doors closing" messages, timetable slowdowns to improve reliability statistics.  And aggressive defensive of mediocrity.  Reluctance to add services applies to both, but the excuse in Cityrail's case is "who is going to pay for it?".  Which completely ignores the point that timetable slowdowns increase costs.

http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2011/January_12_2011/Reports/2011_TTC_Operating_B.pdf

Revenue Cost-Ratios

Toronto Transit Commission (entire system) 70% revenue from farebox
Montreal 56 % from farebox
Ottawa (comparable to Brisbane?) 43 %
Vancouver (comparable to Brisbane?) 48 %

Cost to run the TTC (Comparable to Sydney or Melbourne) $1.3 Billion

[BrizCommuter]

Liverpool added to the list. 15 mins off-peak, almost identical fares, lower population, and where the new TransLink CEO is coming from.

[somebody]

Revenue Cost-Ratios

Toronto Transit Commission (entire system) 70% revenue from farebox
Montreal 56 % from farebox
Ottawa (comparable to Brisbane?) 43 %
Vancouver (comparable to Brisbane?) 48 %

Cost to run the TTC (Comparable to Sydney or Melbourne) $1.3 Billion

Thanks for those figures.  Cost to run the TTC is comparable to the amount of fares paid by Sydneysiders!

[BrizCommuter]

OK, time for a bus fare comparison now. Even worse news!   
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2012/01/why-does-cityglider-wear-crash-helmet.html