How the dutch got their Cycle paths

[Gazza]

The users channel has many other great videos on cycling in the Netherlands.

[ozbob]

Brilliant!  Thanks for posting ..   :bi

[O_128]

Australians seem to like quick fixes, Every K over is killer - never mind our roads are a disgrace and people arent taught to drive.  Remove the helmet law and build proper cycleways throughout the CBD, screw the cars.

[johnnigh]

A great little video! We can see how important public demand was for the political action to change the culture of The Netherlands. A similar change in Australia could not happen currently. With almost everybody wedded to the car, is our only hope a massive change in petrol price or a political champion to begin the change in one significant place? Clover Moore is trying in Sydney but I'm not sure whether the rate of change she can stir, in opposition to the state govt, would be enough to bring Sydney to any sort of tipping point for cycling. Fat chance in Brisbane... 

I am not optimistic about incremental change, looking back at 20 years of increased cycling but static or falling cycle mode share of commutes.

[#Metro]

Australia is low to medium density and near CBD touching high density in a few places and main reason we don't have Metro networks like these European cities and could only justify very limited ones in more recent time should money be available to build. Its a lifestyle most of us enjoy and choose to have. I prefer an acerage personally. We are changing, but its slow and we are not about to turn our cities in European ones. More bikeways and railways yes but you cannot abandon the road system at same time. With road redevelopments we should be factoring in bike ways at same time and likewise new railways it wouldn't take much to have a bike lane down the side.

Roads do have their place. A decent arterial road system (think roads like Logan Road, Old Cleveland, Moggill Road and just about anything that a BUZ runs on) are helpful for PT (if it is put on).

That said, there is no need to wait to turn our city into Europe (or Paris!) which planners everywhere seem to be absolutely obsessed and hellbent on doing. Ugh! I recently saw a video about Melbourne and it was going on about all this fantastic urbanism, street life, cafes and laneways, trams blah blah and I was just balking at the sheer narrowness of the definition of Melbourne - the city grid. I would say that 99% of Melbourneite's DON'T LIVE THERE and most of the stuff they propose would totally not work for the wider suburbs where EVERYONE ELSE LIVES (and works).

Cities such as Vancouver (light metro), Ottawa (High frequency busway), Perth (high frequency rail in low density mind you), Montreal (subway system) all show that it can be done if the transit is retrofitted in such a way that it matches the urban form (high speed, high frequency, focus on connecting buses and park and ride). Of course people don't like that, because "it's not Paris", but it works -- Perth shows that it does.

Places like Sydney and Melbourne (Trains and Trams overflowing, shortage of trains) are more than capable of supporting high frequency (3-5 minutes all day) metro services. The problem is that they don't have cash and the network is carrying everything - people, freight, long distance and unlike places like Toronto or Vancouver don't seem to have the powerful transport agencies that are needed to co-ordinate.

[O_128]

But tram train what excuse would we have then for not having a good network? Similar to the " its impossible to run more than 2tph" or "you can't raise a curved platform"

The sooner planners realise that its possible to implement solutions without us being paris the better. Within 10 years most of the inner ring of brisbane will be med-high density all new roads should from get go have bike solutions implemented etc.Brisbane seems to be stuck with feeling its just to hard.

[#Metro]

But tram train what excuse would we have then for not having a good network? Similar to the " its impossible to run more than 2tph" or "you can't raise a curved platform"

Oh, there is a simple one there : The Federal ATM Infrastructure Australia ran out of money. There is no cash.
At this stage, I am against high speed rail simply because we have enough problems at home, spend the money there please!

The sooner planners realise that its possible to implement solutions without us being paris the better. Within 10 years most of the inner ring of brisbane will be med-high density all new roads should from get go have bike solutions implemented etc.Brisbane seems to be stuck with feeling its just to hard.

When I look at a Suburb like Moggill, Coorparoo, Springfield, Ipswich... and then I see planners run around with visions of Paris (like that Melbourne video) (or ill aligned metro plans through West End!) I cringe. It's like trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

It is embarrassing that we listen to this 'oh its soo low density' rubbish when we have gigantic huge enormous cities like Sydney and Melbourne!
Even more embarrassing when you point to a city like Perth which is even smaller than Brisbane and is one of the most car dependent cities on Earth (was like that before NewMetroRail opened) and there Perth is running high frequency trains on all lines (including the old ones!) to everywhere and suburban development (not necessarily TODs) are taking off around stations (which have huge park and rides - another inconvenient fact that people don't like because it's grinds against "Paris Urbanism") because people are attracted to the speed and frequency of the train service.

When you compare Melbourne (around 200 train stations) and Sydney (around 300 train stations) to Toronto (just 69), Brisbane (85 train stations plus 22 busway stations) putting a train station everywhere isn't the way to go IMHO.

[#Metro]

Oh, and apparently Paris has 245 metro stations-- So if there is one thing Sydney, Melbourne and Paris have in common, its that!!!

[O_128]

Oh, and apparently Paris has 245 metro stations-- So if there is one thing Sydney, Melbourne and Paris have in common, its that!!!

You would be surprised at how dense sydney is getting, City to hornsby at least along main arterials and around Rail is now 3-20 stories!! We are not paris. In 10 years out to chermside/Indro/Carindale and Mt Gravatt will be dense. And all we have is some half assed plan of what may happen. Its pathetic that simple solutions like a bike lane is so politically impossible to implement.

[#Metro]

For Brisbane to move forward it needs to reduce the cost of its HR system, with recoveries at around 40% (at best), every extra km is an extra km to subsidise and more cost to govt. Cars use petrol which have taxes. Perth's system was built as DOO, hence it can effectively double the services for same salary bill. ie run 3 car trains every 15min instead of 6 cars every 30min. Brisbane needs to find the economical way to go DOO at least on some routes and other ways to reduce its operating costs. I'm sure the recent high ticket prices increases is simply about making the PT system more cost accountable (as well as using redudent capacity of road system).

The frequency has to be increased. There are barriers to this (which can be overcome). When I hear "oh, we have freight on the line" I can understand that, but in 2030 the city is going to be huge, do we really still want to be listening to the "oh we still have freight on the line". Time to start small moves- duplications, triplications, core unblocking (CRR) and separating freight from passenger.