31 October 2011 bus changes

[somebody]

No, although there was a line of buses at the Melbourne St portal back to the top of the slope between the portal and South Bank busway station. This would have been around 8.45am, towards the end of peak so not entirely sure if it was related. They really need to get their act together to either remove those traffic lights altogether or change the phasing again to give buses a bigger share of the green time.

I don't think the station could cope with a longer green time, it's full as is.
What's really needed is, simply, less buses in that corridor

Agreed.  Particularly in the AM peak.  IMO, this is one of the failings of the BUZ standard.  Having it at 10 minutes peak reduces the scope to add peak hour short workings and rocket (like 443) services.

Although it doesn't seem to be the same problem in the PM peak.  Perhaps we need shorter cycles with the same green time for buses!?

[dwb]

I don't think the station could cope with a longer green time, it's full as is.
What's really needed is, simply, less buses in that corridor

But is it predominantly the buses in the corridor or the dwell time at the platform that is an issue?

[Fattious]

The additional 227 short run service was well patronised this morning. Managed to have around 12 people standing as we went over the Story Bridge.

[O_128]

The additional 227 short run service was well patronised this morning. Managed to have around 12 people standing as we went over the Story Bridge.

[Golliwog]

I don't think the station could cope with a longer green time, it's full as is.
What's really needed is, simply, less buses in that corridor

But is it predominantly the buses in the corridor or the dwell time at the platform that is an issue?

Fairly sure it's the bunching caused by the traffic lights that would cause most of the issues. Or perhaps not an extended green time, but maybe a shortening of the cycle? That way you get another platoon of buses arrive sooner after the first one has left.

My point is, it's not the station itself that causes the issue, but the fact that because of the traffic lights just before it, a number of buses all arrive together which can end up with more buses than will fit at the station at a given time, which then causes the last bus or more to wait, which can then block the next set of buses that come in, and so on and so forth. Repeat as necessary.

[dwb]

I don't think the station could cope with a longer green time, it's full as is.
What's really needed is, simply, less buses in that corridor

But is it predominantly the buses in the corridor or the dwell time at the platform that is an issue?

Fairly sure it's the bunching caused by the traffic lights that would cause most of the issues. Or perhaps not an extended green time, but maybe a shortening of the cycle? That way you get another platoon of buses arrive sooner after the first one has left.

My point is, it's not the station itself that causes the issue, but the fact that because of the traffic lights just before it, a number of buses all arrive together which can end up with more buses than will fit at the station at a given time, which then causes the last bus or more to wait, which can then block the next set of buses that come in, and so on and so forth. Repeat as necessary.

The same issues happen at Mater and South Bank though, which don't have lights.... at least not in the immediate vicinity. So it would seem most likely to do with pure bus numbers and passenger boardings/deboardings at those stations. Although the lights are obviously also a contributing factor at each station too.

[Golliwog]

Outbound at South Bank would still be impacted by the Melbourne St portal lights. Not sure about Mater Hill as I don't go through there often anymore, though doesn't Mater Hill have a shorter platform?

[dwb]

I was just thinking about Rio again, they implemented the first of 22 major on road BRT corridors while I was there in the beginning of the year.

Through Copacabana they have a major couplet of two x four lane (one way) roads. They took two lanes from each to make the busway on the passenger kerb side. They used to have stops on each block that each bus from each route vied for passengers at - it's quite competitive between the companies there.

When they implemented the BRT they culled a few routes, simplified a few routes (reduced #buses by ~20% - as each bus would become more efficient) and then divided all the remaining routes into 1, 2 or 3. They then rationalised the stops and named them 1, 2 or 3. Each route can now only stop at its allocated stop (either 1, 2 or 3).

There are still 3 or 4 stops for each route along that section of road, but many many less than there used to be. Stops are now much further apart than they were.

This works quite well, however they have two lanes the entire way, so I would have broken it down even further, say 1-5 and had a stop on each block, that way each route would stop every 5th block and then would be less routes (and hence buses) stopping at each individual bus stop.

The system worked quite well at implementation with a few bugbears, involving taxis, delivery vehicles and the way the bus drivers drive their vehicles over there. There were too many routes stopping at each bus stop still... at least because the stops were stops, not "busway stations".

The stops were crowded and quite chaotic and passengers often wait IN the gutter, forcing the bus to move out into the second lane (reducing the passing capacity of the second lane).

As this were a road, with sequenced lights every (major) block buses significantly platooned too.... so each bus would race ahead to the next light only to stop and wait and then speed off when it went green. But that meant 6,7,8 buses turning up at the next stop all at once to passenger confusion.

I think they had extended the straight through green time for cars and buses alike... to the opposite outcome than they were seeking. Basically they were trying to pump as much car traffic through those two lanes left for general traffic as possible by lengthening the cycle. Instead I think they should have shortened the cycles so that buses didn't platoon so much.

In effect turned what had been a general road into 3 dedicated busways (ie lane + passing lane + three sets of stops/ routes), but with lights, and crossed by pedestrians at grade.

They would not be achieving the capacity, reliability, nor legibility if every route stopped at every stop.

This is what the Brisbane system is lacking... except for a few "expresses" that miss one or two stops (Buranda, Holland Park).

Why couldn't the routes that stop at KGS for instance not stop at CC and the ones that stop at CC not stop at KGS. The two are close enough to walk between and customers already do that all the time... they walk to CC instead of KGS to get the 385 bc they know they will be guaranteed to get the next bus (whereas at KGS they may have to wait for 1 or 2)... and most times in peak the 385 turns up at KGS already 1/3 full.

Here it is not ideal, bc of the street layout/existing infrastructure, but the same concept from Rio could be employed... and if this were combined with through routing and route simplification (get rid of all cityexpress, replace with more short runs of their BUZ pair perhaps??), then I think we could go a long way to resolving the capacity issues at CC/ in the inner city network.

Thoughts?

[dwb]

Oh, and as an aside, if you want to read a little more about Rio, then I blogged (once :S) about it here http://riobrs.blogspot.com/.
You will note though that in the period we'd consider offpeak, I counted a bus every 12secs... roughly 20,000 people per hour per direction.

Also Rio doesn't benefit from a good smart card system, they have one, but it is slow and arduous and everyone boarding the bus has to wait for a turnstile to unlock before pushing it open with bodyweight (on board each bus) whether they pay cash or with smart card... so boarding is actually slower than here (most people pay cash to the 'gatemaster' or whatever you want to call them - $2.80-$3.00 (minimum wage is ~$3.60/hr) flatfare but un-airconditioned).

[ClintonL94]

Not sure how many of these have been posted up here, but here's all the October 31st changes I can see on TL so far:

Thanks Golliwog. I've been fairly busy the past fortnight and didn't have the time to post all of these on the Planned Changes thread.

[somebody]

dwb, that sounds much like arrangements in Sydney CBD, where there are stops every (say) 200m, and routes which stop every 400m, most noticably on Castlereagh St.  Personally, I am not a fan.  I'd much rather a 360m gap then a 40m gap.

I think we should keep serving CC & KGSBS though.  I would be dead against not serving one of those places with routes for Caxton St/Musgrave Rd/Kelvin Grove Rd/INB.  I'd probably add routes from Milton Rd to that also.

[dwb]

dwb, that sounds much like arrangements in Sydney CBD, where there are stops every (say) 200m, and routes which stop every 400m, most noticably on Castlereagh St.  Personally, I am not a fan.  I'd much rather a 360m gap then a 40m gap.

WOuldn't that defeat the point and ensure buses you're trying to separate interact, causing delays?

[somebody]

That would only be a problem if the buses in the "behind" stop cannot pull out due to buses in the "in front" stop.  Hopefully, you wouldn't have that problem.

[Golliwog]

That would only be a problem if the buses in the "behind" stop cannot pull out due to buses in the "in front" stop.  Hopefully, you wouldn't have that problem.

Actually, the serious bus stop capacity constraint is the reverse, when the bus infront leaves, and the bus behind remains and a 3rd bus can't use the stop infront of what was the 2nd bus.

[somebody]

That would only be a problem if the buses in the "behind" stop cannot pull out due to buses in the "in front" stop.  Hopefully, you wouldn't have that problem.

Actually, the serious bus stop capacity constraint is the reverse, when the bus infront leaves, and the bus behind remains and a 3rd bus can't use the stop infront of what was the 2nd bus.

Who says?  Just doesn't.  I don't think I've seen this sort of hesitation in Sydney.

[Golliwog]

The books and stuff that have an equation for working out the (theoretical) capacity of the stop. The buses can generally get in, but it depends on if there's room infront of the 2nd bus before theres a driveway or something that the bus has to stop before (or it can do it anyway, and leave its arse hanging out, blocking the lane/busway). The bus may be able to get in and load/unload, but it can still be having other impacts in terms of limiting capacity by blocking buses that aren't stopping.

[shiftyphil]

The additional 546 services haven't had much affect on overcrowding, still 12 people standing from Greenbank RSL at 7:19 today.