Eastern Region consultations

[somebody]

http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/bulletin/1312762848

Have your say on Eastern region bus services
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In late October, changes will be made to a number of existing Veolia bus routes serving the Eastern region.

From Wednesday 17 August, we will be holding community consultation sessions across the region, seeking feedback on the proposed changes.

Visit us at one of the following locations to find out more:

    * Wednesday 17 August 8.30am to 10.30am - Eastside Village, corner Tilley and New Cleveland Roads, Gumdale
    * Thursday 18 August 9am to 12noon - Cleveland Library, 55 Middle Street, Cleveland
    * Thursday 18 August 3.30pm to 7.30pm - Victoria Point Shopping Centre, corner Bunker Road and Cleveland-Redland Bay Roads, Victoria Point
    * Friday 19 August 9am to 5.30pm - Capalaba Central Shopping Centre, Moreton Bay Road, Capalaba
    * Saturday 20 August 9.30am to 11.30am - Eastside Village, corner Tilley and New Cleveland Roads, Gumdale
    * Sunday 21 August 10am to 4pm - Capalaba Central Shopping Centre, Moreton Bay Road, Capalaba.

More information on the proposed changes and an online feedback form will be available from 17 August.

[STB]

http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/bulletin/1311307215

Veolia services to travel on the Eastern Busway

From Monday 29 August, to improve travel times, all Veolia services will travel to and from Brisbane City along the newest section of the Eastern Busway.
Langlands Park busway station

Inbound services

    No inbound Veolia services will stop at Langlands Park busway station.
    Routes 250 and 270 will only stop at Stones Corner and Buranda busway stations and continue to Brisbane City.
    Routes 251, 257, 265, 267, 271, 273 and 275 will travel direct from Chandler to Buranda busway station and continue to Brisbane City.

Outbound services

    No outbound Veolia services will stop at Langlands Park busway station.
    Routes 250 and 270 will only stop at Woolloongabba, Buranda and Stones Corner busway stations.
    Routes 251, 257, 265, 267, 271, 273 and 275 will travel direct from Brisbane City to Buranda busway station and continue to Chandler.

Stones Corner busway station

Inbound services

    Routes 250 and 270 will service Stones Corner busway station.
    Routes 251, 257, 265, 267, 271, 273 and 275 will not stop at Stones Corner busway station. These services will travel direct from Chandler to Buranda busway station via the Eastern Busway before continuing to Brisbane City.

Outbound services

    Routes 250, N250 and 270 will service Stones Corner busway station.
    Routes 251, 257, 265, 267, 271, 273 and 275 will not service Stones Corner busway station. These services will travel direct from Brisbane City to Buranda busway station and continue to Chandler via the Eastern Busway.

Affected Services

    Route 250
    N250
    Route 251
    Route 257
    Route 265
    Route 267
    Route 270
    Route 271
    Route 273
    Route 275

[O_128]

cut woolongabba out

[Golliwog]

The info is now up there. Theres a lot of it, and various attached jpegs to show what they propose.

[Golliwog]

The images are a bit small and there are a few misdirected or bad links, but it looks promising. I'll start by saying that I know pretty much nothing about this area. Main changes I noticed were changes to the Brisbane CBD loop to reduce the number of stops and this time spent there. Apparently the current loop takes about 15 minutes. They also want to cut out the Gabba. They also present 4 options for routes 250 and 270. 1 is stay the same, 2 is reduce the number of stops these routes serve between Brisbane and Carindale, 3 is terminate these two routes at Carindal and run them with increased frequencies on routes 250 and 270 (they give the average wait for a service at Carindale to Brisbane CBD as 3 to 7 minutes). Option 4 is to do the same as for option 3 but terminating at Capalaba though it looks like it will still have 1 of those 2 routes continue to Brisbane, but both will be at higher frequencies. In all options, the peak only routes all continue to run all the way to Brisbane CBD.

Other than that there are a few route modifications, a couple of route deletions, and I think 1 new proposed route (it looks like taking one route and splitting it in two).

One thing I do like about this though is they list the reasons and logic behind what they're doing. Not that specific though.

[SurfRail]

Looks promising.  I still don't know why they can't do something this comprehensive every time they change a bus route or a local network though.  Hopefully this will be the start of proper consultation from now on...

[STB]

I'm yet to see any advertising in the local papers or on the buses regarding these consultations.  In terms of scale, this is harking back to 2005.  Almost our version of the Ipswich/Caboolture rail changes.

[jouzocha]

I would like to see both 250 and 270 terminate at Carindale during off-peak and run at higher frequencies.  With the 200 and 222 both now running as BUZ, there should be plenty of capacity and transfer times will be minimal.  It also gives the people from those routes the option of Woolloongabba (200) or not (222).  Through routes/rockets to continue as normal during peak hours, but the Gabba diversion should definitely be deleted.  People can either transfer at Carindale or Mater Hill to access the Gabba.

The Old Cleveland Rd corridor will already be extremely well serviced with 200/222 (between Carindale and Coorparoo Junction served every 7.5 minutes during off-peak) plus the 204 running every 15 minutes during the day on weekdays I don't really see the need for yet more services to run along it.

Also it would be nice for the JPG maps to be a bit bigger, they're practically illegible!

[STB]

I've finally spotted some posters up on board the bus.  Apparently TransLink have directed Veolia to put up the posters to alert passengers about the consultations, just that Veolia have been a tad slack.

[somebody]

There are separate proposals for removing the Gabba, and removing South Bank from the 250 & 270 routes.

More power to them if they can get that implemented.

[somebody]

There are separate proposals for removing the Gabba, and removing South Bank from the 250 & 270 routes.

More power to them if they can get that implemented.

One slight critique of their plans here is that if the Elizabeth St ramp, (R) Edward, (R) Alice is implemented, it wouldn't serve Parliament well.  I think a Margaret St ramp, L George, R Elizabeth, L Mary/Charlotte, R George, R Alice, or something like that should be considered.

Although I expect STB would be against that.

[STB]

There are separate proposals for removing the Gabba, and removing South Bank from the 250 & 270 routes.

More power to them if they can get that implemented.

One slight critique of their plans here is that if the Elizabeth St ramp, (R) Edward, (R) Alice is implemented, it wouldn't serve Parliament well.  I think a Margaret St ramp, L George, R Elizabeth, L Mary/Charlotte, R George, R Alice, or something like that should be considered.

Although I expect STB would be against that.

Just a quick question, how do you get from Elizabeth to Mary/Charlotte?  They both run North/South.

FYI, I spoke to the Planners and they have admitted that the proposed city loop map is a bit misleading.  The 250/270 is still expected to run via Southbank and Cultural Centre, but the peak hour city loop is what they are looking at, and I got the indication that the preference is it's current loop via Elizabeth, Creek and Ann, but omitting stops 107 and 108 along William and George, as this would service the guts of the city.  They also said the highest boardings/disembarks based on their patronage data is in Creek St/Queen St at the northern end of the loop and in Ann St @ Roma St.

EDIT: I should also mention that those disembarks/boardings at Stops 107/108 are mostly of people wanting a quick trip out of the city and so use that stop as it's the last stop before hitting the expressway.  Same with Ann St @ Roma St with the PM peak.  Creek St & Queen St stop is the exception where it's constant and has the highest boardings/disembarkings for the city loop overall.

[somebody]

Really, so removing some of the little service which exists to the Parliament end of town?  Did they say that they had data to support it?  i.e. that stops 107/108 are not highly patronised and therefore do not justify a couple of minutes of delay.

Sorry, got my loop wrong.  Should have been: "I think a Margaret St ramp, L George, R Elizabeth, R Edward, R Mary/Charlotte, L George, R Alice, or something like that should be considered."  But with your other comments it seems like that would be unlikely.

[STB]

I have been advised that this patronage boardings/disembarks data has been based on ticketing data, Go Cards, Paper ticket sales, and at-the-stop counts.

[STB]

FYI, other things mentioned by the Planners.  They said that they it's highly unlikely that option 4 for routes 250/270 will ever get legs.  Option 3 is dependent on if people value frequency over a one bus journey, but they are just putting it out there to get feedback.  Option 2 is looking like the most likely option at this stage that will get taken on if people disagree with having to transfer at Carindale and want to maintain the one bus journey in lieu of a higher frequency.

W'Gabba is definately going to be removed from routes 250/270!  Hooray!

Route 241 will possibly run between Thorneside and Carindale via Wakerley.  I suggested that would have an operational benefit to the service as you could then add the additional run time needed onto route 253 and hook that bus onto route 241, so the northern Redlands region would get a bus to Carindale for the first time.

I strongly objected to route 255 been cut short to Wellington Point, they argued that you could use the train, I said that they haven't realised that people in the southern area of Wellington Point are using the 255 to get to Birkdale, same with residents living along Birkdale Rd are using the service to get to Cleveland and the southern areas of Wellington Point.


I offered to put my hand up to send in some suggested timetables which they happily accepted, which I will do next week and send directly to the Planners for consideration.

[somebody]

I wonder how much of the desire to remove the stop 107/108 service from the rockets is from wanting to avoid William St in the PM?  This could be done anyway in the PM by starting at George St stop 108 and serving Parliament first rather than last.

[STB]

I wonder how much of the desire to remove the stop 107/108 service from the rockets is from wanting to avoid William St in the PM?  This could be done anyway in the PM by starting at George St stop 108 and serving Parliament first rather than last.

I do know from experience that in the AM peak it can take approximately 10 to 15 minutes to get to the Elizabeth St stop from George St stop with the killer being those lights on the corner of Elizabeth and George St.

[somebody]

I wonder how much of the desire to remove the stop 107/108 service from the rockets is from wanting to avoid William St in the PM?  This could be done anyway in the PM by starting at George St stop 108 and serving Parliament first rather than last.

I do know from experience that in the AM peak it can take approximately 10 to 15 minutes to get to the Elizabeth St stop from George St stop with the killer being those lights on the corner of Elizabeth and George St.

That surprises me, but not working in the CBD, I don't ever see it.  A possibility would be to serve William St stop 107 in the AM instead (i.e. Elizabeth St ramp, L Creek, L Ann, L North Quay, continue onto William), but I think I already know what you are going to think of that.

[STB]

I wonder how much of the desire to remove the stop 107/108 service from the rockets is from wanting to avoid William St in the PM?  This could be done anyway in the PM by starting at George St stop 108 and serving Parliament first rather than last.

I do know from experience that in the AM peak it can take approximately 10 to 15 minutes to get to the Elizabeth St stop from George St stop with the killer being those lights on the corner of Elizabeth and George St.

That surprises me, but not working in the CBD, I don't ever see it.  A possibility would be to serve William St stop 107 in the AM instead (i.e. Elizabeth St ramp, L Creek, L Ann, L North Quay, continue onto William), but I think I already know what you are going to think of that.

I think what would happen is that you would have all those William St workers getting off in Elizabeth St and walking instead of riding the service all around to William St.

[somebody]

You could be right at that.  At least it's better than having to walk to KGSBS or even Adelaide St.

[Golliwog]

FYI, they have now put up pdf versions of the maps, etc which are bigger and you can zoom in and actually see what it is they propose.

[jouzocha]

FYI, they have now put up pdf versions of the maps, etc which are bigger and you can zoom in and actually see what it is they propose.

I noticed that yesterday and wondered if it had anything to do with me complaining to them about it on Twitter.  Although I imagine numerous other people complained as well.

[somebody]

I'd wonder if the 250+270 should serve Coorparoo, but not Camp Hill or Carina.  My thinking here is that you may pass a 200 at those places and you can then get to W'Gabba 15 minutes faster.

[STB]

The next round of Eastern Region consultations is now up on the TL website at

http://translink.com.au/travel-information/service-updates/bulletin/1317613306

Definite issue - Route 255 - TransLink are proposing to cut the route back to Wellington Point station, this is a problem as it currently services Birkdale Rd and there are passengers (elderly and students) who are catching route 255 along Birkdale Rd to access Cleveland and the southern end of Wellington Point.  There are also those who are catching it to transfer to route 253 and 254 to go to Capalaba and Birkdale from Birkdale station.

Something that could be pushed for - Extend route 241 to Birkdale station allowing a northern connection to Carindale for the first time and at the same time straightening (or steam ironing as people seem to use here) route 253, in particular the Clive Rd section of the route.

Some interesting developments I've noted is that they have left route 250 as is but will be running it express Carindale to Stones Corner (which makes sense - Stones Corner actually gets quite a bit of patronage off route 250 currently who have come from the Redlands), and route 270 is still up in the air on exactly what they should do with it but I can definitely see that they are wanting to try and at least get a high frequency service happening between Capalaba and the City  but are stuck with budgeting constraints.

Route 271 is proposed to run via Eight Mile Plains - this has been talked about for quite some time in the industry so no surprise there.

Route 282 is to be extended to Victoria Point Bus Station - I'll be interested to see how they go about scheduling that, I do wonder if there will be a slight increase in dead running with route 283 continuing to do what it does now, route 282 and 283 currently operate with one bus doing both routes.

Probably the biggest change will be the deletion of route 257 which is a peak hour rocket service that runs between Ormiston and Brisbane City via Wellington Point and Alexandra Hills.  They are stating - quite rightly to an extent - that routes 254, 255, 258 will cover for this missing route.  One would hope that the frequency on those routes to the railway stations is on par and provides enough compensation with the loss of their peak hour city route.

[SurfRail]

I'm not convinced this is a significant set of improvements by and large.  The failure to properly consider the Mt Gravatt routes as part of this package is silly as well.

7-day services all through the Redlands are needed - there seems to be precious little momentum for implementing Sunday running on some of these routes.  People won't use crap.

[STB]

7-day services all through the Redlands are needed - there seems to be precious little momentum for implementing Sunday running on some of these routes.  People won't use crap.

I fully agree with you on that, however they have stated that there isn't enough demand to warrant it.  A case of what the...?  How can you measure that when it doesn't even have the chance to exist already!

Generally the current route structure is pretty good overall already, it's the frequency and Sunday services that are more critical IMO.

[somebody]

Is there merit in extending the 280 into the city?  Would improve the patronage, and the running time wouldn't increase that much.

[STB]

Is there merit in extending the 280 into the city?  Would improve the patronage, and the running time wouldn't increase that much.

The only real merit in extending route 280 to the city would be in sorting out the turnaround times at Griffith University and Point Talburpin, so more of an operational issue than anything else.  From a passenger perspective it's probably better for them just to transfer onto the high frequency busway routes as long as the info is on there that they know which bus and at which time they should catch leaving the city in order to transfer onto route 280.

[SurfRail]

Generally the current route structure is pretty good overall already, it's the frequency and Sunday services that are more critical IMO.

You have to give them credit for constantly tweaking things out there to improve and fine-tune services post-2005 restructure.  Something that tends not to happen elsewhere anywhere on the network anywhere near as regularly.

I expect Veolia needs a new depot to accommodate a bigger fleet - I have not been out there since 2007 and it was pretty squeezy even then, when there were no green buses yet delivered.

[STB]

I went to today's consultations just to listen in and see what people are talking/complaining about.  And today we had the commuters turn up.  There were concerns over how the consultation was advertised, with many saying that they only heard about it from word of mouth and that they missed the advertisements in the local papers, and at key bus stops where the flyers were handed out.  It was also noted that TransLink staff were a little frustrated with Veolia for not putting up the posters advertising the consultations, although I did see one on the peak hour route I took this afternoon out of Buranda.

In terms of buses, at least 90% of the commuters were unhappy with the 257 proposed deletion and that they would not use the train as they feel that it takes too long, safety issues etc, even if the local routes were boosted up to meet every train.  Basically they want their one bus journey maintained and do not want to use the rail/feeder setup.

Also of note a lot of angst at the possibility of losing the William and George St stops, where strangely apparently one person who was supportive of those stops being removed in the previous consultation, then getting all defensive and saying that they must stay in this consultation.

There was a little bit of 'mob mentality' occurring as the commuters got rather aggressive with the TL staff.

[somebody]

Also of note a lot of angst at the possibility of losing the William and George St stops, where strangely apparently one person who was supportive of those stops being removed in the previous consultation, then getting all defensive and saying that they must stay in this consultation.

Any suggestion of interchange at Stone's Corner for the 206?

[STB]

Also of note a lot of angst at the possibility of losing the William and George St stops, where strangely apparently one person who was supportive of those stops being removed in the previous consultation, then getting all defensive and saying that they must stay in this consultation.

Any suggestion of interchange at Stone's Corner for the 206?

There wasn't but it was pretty clear that they did not want to use the Brisbane Transport services in peak hour.  Apparently one of the TL staff did try and mention that there are heaps of BT services but this did not faze the commuters, with them stating that the BT services should be used by the Brisbane passengers only and leave the Veolia services only for Redlands passengers.

There was also a suggestion of having a City-Capalaba direct express in the middle of the day.  I can't realistically see demand for this, I think this was more of selfishness of the commuters wanting a one bus journey and treating the bus as a taxi service.  Fairly typical response out this way.

[Golliwog]

And here I was thinking only Newman had that idea that BT buses were for Brisbane residents only...