Article: Light rail 'game changer'

[ozbob]

From the Noosa News click here!

Light rail 'game changer'

Light rail 'game changer'

Peter Gardiner | 14th October 2011

LIGHT rail for the Sunshine Coast is an economic game changer for the region according to the council's integrated transport head, Councillor Vivien Griffin, and needs Noosa to support this bold $2 billion proposal.

"You might very well wonder why we are talking to Cooroy about light rail, because the focus and the (light rail service) hot spot here is more the Caloundra to Maroochydore," Cr Griffin told a Cooroy Chamber of Commerce meeting on Tuesday night.

She was a co-speaker with a southern Coast light rail proponent James Birrell.

"We are going to be talking to chambers of commerce across the region (Noosa Chamber was addressed on Monday).

"We all know we are facing tough times ... and the regions that survive are the regions that have a strong and unified voice right across all levels of government and have a clear vision of where they're going.

"We see it as quite important that the whole of the Sunshine Coast is on this journey with us."

Cr Griffin said while the council could provide the potential for development in the planning scheme, business needed to have the confidence to invest.

"Part of the role of council is to try and provide that certainty - if we don't have the high quality transport to service that, we won't see that confidence in the business coming out of the ground."

Cr Griffin said the Coast faced a high risk of getting the development without the transport services while all "the dollars get sucked down to Brisbane" if a strong case was not made by a council asserting its strength.

"So we start to become a second-rate Brisbane and we lose the competitive economic advantage of a regional lifestyle area and a great environment where people want to work, live and play.

"We need to see the light rail as transformational to the Sunshine Coast - the economic game changer as we become a mature region."

The councillor said a planned council taskforce meant to progress the ambitious project, which might later be extended northwards, had to be "owned and driven by the community" with heavy input from business.

Cr Griffin said the development of the Sunshine Coast University Hospital at Kawana with its thousands of jobs and health visits, plus the development of the Maroochydore CBD made this area the priority for a transport upgrade.

She said a heavy rail corridor of a 10-lane Nicklin Way was not the answer.

She said the Gold Coast Council had put $120 million on the table for a light rail system, but was handed back $830 million from the state and federal governments.

"We believe light rail is the high-quality, fast-frequency option that people will take up.

"We now have a council that has accepted it has a role to play in providing this transport service.

"We can be in an ivory tower and say we're not going to do the State Government's job for it, and if we do, our community will go down the gurgler."

[SurfRail]

Light rail to Noosa?  Please .  Getting the route 620 services running once every 15 minutes to and from Maroochydore might be a start...

Between Caloundra South, Caloundra, Kawana, Sippy Downs, Mooloolaba and Maroochydore - maybe.  Elsewhere?  The Coast has around 100 public buses - doubling that would do a lot more than airy-fairy plans for LRT.  The Gold Coast has high intensity of land use along the corridor which is necessary to make the investment worthwhile, but most of the Sunshine Coast does not.

You can't have amazing high-capacity rail systems and just be a green-belt as Birrell seems to be suggesting.

[#Metro]

Heavy rail needs to be the backbone, off that you can put buses feeding that...

[O_128]

heres a tip SC council, do a feasibility study and get the funding. this is about the 20th report I've read saying that something needs to be done.

[#Metro]

Sigh. They chose the mode first rather than choose the service level and then the mode.

[Stillwater]

Vivien Griffen was being nice to the people of Cooroy regarding light rail.  It is warranted where the population is more dense, between Mooloolabah/ Maroochydore and Caloundra.  Cooroy should not back the light rail horse, but look to rail (Nambour) and bus (Nambour and Noosa) to plug into the SC public transport network.

[Gazza]

She said a heavy rail corridor ......was not the answer.

Why not?

Light rail, like a bus, is more for local trips.
The SC still should have a fast heavy rail link into Brisbane though!

[O_128]

She said a heavy rail corridor ......was not the answer.

Why not?

Light rail, like a bus, is more for local trips.
The SC still should have a fast heavy rail link into Brisbane though!

Most likely she lives near the line. SC coast council should be doing everything within there power to get camcos and SC duplication done, then we can talk light rail

[somebody]

Whenever I've been to the Sunshine Coast it has been very noticeable how little traffic there really is off the Sunshine & Bruce Motorways.  I don't see how a light rail solution is an answer to any reasonable question.

[colinw]

Tell 'em they're dreaming!

Seriously, a heavy rail link from Maroochydore to Caloundra and then back to Brisbane plus a fix for the Nambour line, combined with decent BUZ standard bus routines will do the job much better for them.

The CAMCOS corridor is long enough and low enough density that infrequent stops and the speed of heavy rail is what is required.  The Sunshine Coast needs to be thinking "Mandurah" or "Gold Coast Line" style, not "Gold Coast Light Rail" style.

I'm all for light rail, but it has to be in the right places, and that is medium to high density urban with a lot of commercial & service (e.g. hospital & uni) development, where a high frequency bus service is already approaching its limits.  The initial route for the GCRT meets the criteria, as does West End - Brisbane CBD - Valley - Newfarm.

[#Metro]

I think SCC might be shooting themselves in the foot.

Improvements to bus services plus heavy rail extension to at least Caloundra is required urgently. Anything else is going to be distracting.

[colinw]

SCC's position is hugely counter-productive. If they walk away from supporting CAMCOS now then rail to the Sunshine Coast proper is dead for the foreseeable future. Brisbane and Gold Coast will happily use up the available funding.

Remember how long it took to get GCRT off the ground due to the politicking within the Gold Coast City Council about it (e.g. Ron crapping on about Bishop Austrans, etc.)

A council sponsored light rail proposal in opposition to CAMCOS (or using the CAMCOS corridor in part) would be an enormous own goal, and would doom the Sunshine Coast to decades more bus mediocrity and predominantly private car based commuting.

[Fares_Fair]

Today I had a call from an elderly resident (80 y.o.) of Caloundra complaining/explaining how difficult it is to get to the rail line at Landsborough for medical appointments.
She described the bus services as abysmal and too slow. (I assumed she meant the 649 rail buses in place of trains to Caboolture)

Sha also said that there was to be a public transport forum at Kawana High School on Tuesday 18 October from 5:30pm.
It was to discuss the Light Rail, CAMCOS, MMTC (Multi-Modal Transport Corridor) and transport issues.

She said that Jarrod Bleijie MP (LNP Kawana) would be there along with Scott Emerson MP (LNP Indooroopilly, and shadow Transport Minister).
I have a prior engagement on that day so cannot attend.

It sounds like it will be for just local issues (but may be wrong, as it's second hand info).

Regards,
Fares-Fair.

[Stillwater]

The SC Light Rail proposal is planned to be in addition to CAMCOS.  See below.

http://www.conlonbirrell.com.au/infrastructure/181-light-rail-sunshinecoast

More information here:

http://www.conlonbirrell.com.au/news/179-councils-2billion-light-rail-proposal

[Arnz]

Whenever I've been to the Sunshine Coast it has been very noticeable how little traffic there really is off the Sunshine & Bruce Motorways.  I don't see how a light rail solution is an answer to any reasonable question.

You're most likely been there during the low season/mid weeks.  Start/End of School Holiday traffic and Brisbane Commuter Traffic in the evenings after 6pm on Weekdays is another issue.  Especially with the rail timetable stuff-up in June drove some commuters back onto the highway.

Last I've read in the reports is that PT usage within both coasts were pretty low (excluding Brisbane Commuter traffic).  3% for SC and 4% for GC.  GC's would likely rise when the first stage LR is completed (and enabling protection against any future bus industrial actions), SC on the other hand is a basketcase due to many factors including a divided council, an outgoing mayor which seems to be more focused on his hometown of Noosa, and the recent industrial action from bus employees.

[Arnz]

The SC Light Rail proposal is planned to be in addition to CAMCOS.  See below.

http://www.conlonbirrell.com.au/infrastructure/181-light-rail-sunshinecoast

More information here:

http://www.conlonbirrell.com.au/news/179-councils-2billion-light-rail-proposal

So in other words, the LR proposal is basically duplicating or replacing (most) of Route 600 and Route 620?  The question is whether people (especially the elderly) are willing to change modes/buses for a 5-15 minute trip.  Especially for the Elderly wanting to go to the local Shopping Centre,  not to mention trying to get to the Stopping Location (whether if it's crossing a busy street or getting a elevator/escalator up).

In regards to Cooroy, Route 631 should be turned in a more frequent local service connecting to the major towns/transport hubs (not BUZ levels, but half-hourly at best), with the Route 630 being the Train"Link" service.  IMO, 620 should be upgraded from half-hourly to 'BUZ' levels like the Route 600 service.  It's a trunk service that gets standees consistently at times of the day for gods sake.

Marcoola depot would be squeezing for space again (unless if they deliver new/transfer some buses to Caloundra) if said suggestions for service improvements on the Northern Sunshine Coast ever happens one day, the alternative is to involve more Caloundra-based drivers on more Northern shifts between Maroochydore and Noosa, with their last runs being one of the 600/601/602/607 (via 636 from Nambour) services to Caloundra to reduce dead running.

[somebody]

Is there merit in joining the 600 and 620 together?  Or would it just be too long and unreliable?

Sunshine Coast's PT is soo mediocre.  Feeder services to rail often double back, the rail service is poor, etc.

[Stillwater]

Route 631 should be more frequent and provide links to and from Cooroy-Noosa from interchange at Cooroy railway station.  Noosa Junction-Cooroy-Nambour (via Eumundi) provides links at Noosa for the northern and of the Coast and at Nambour for Maroochydore and southern end of the coast.  Train stabling at Yandina would allow for more heavy rail services from that location, connecting to Yandina-Coolum bus service.

[Arnz]

Is there merit in joining the 600 and 620 together?  Or would it just be too long and unreliable?

Sunshine Coast's PT is soo mediocre.  Feeder services to rail often double back, the rail service is poor, etc.

The 600 and 620 were one route Pre-TransLink as Route 1 Caloundra to Noosa.  It used to combine with the 1A Caloundra-Nambour (now 610 Kawana to Nambour) to form the 15 min frequency between Maroochydore and Caloundra.  

No it was not reliable.  Led to buses bunching up with the first 2 buses being packed with standees whilst the 3rd bus behind is carrying 1-2 people and a lot of air.  Back then most of the bus fleet was the old "pie-carts" that sat about 27 people with 15 standees, so it was pretty quick to fill up the bus.  We had fewer larger Volvo rigid low-floors back then, which were all used primarily on the TrainLink feeders.

What do you mean on the rail feeders doubling back?  If you meant 630/631, I might agree to some extent.   Route 605/615 are almost direct with few diversions. (The Uni diversion would be important, most of Route 615s off-peak patronage comes out of the Uni).  They did have to 2x 615 buses on a Sunday (one serving the uni, and one skipping it) to meet the 5:19pm Landsborough to Brisbane service as a result.

[somebody]

610 doubles back from Nambour, although I guess you can pick it up at Woombye.  602 seems a shocker, but perhaps it's not really designed as a feeder.  636 is also backwards from Nambour to USC.  I'm not sure what this one is for, Nambour residents studying at USC perhaps?

[Arnz]

610 doubles back from Nambour, although I guess you can pick it up at Woombye.

610 wasn't really designed as a rail feeder, but more of serving the Nambour to Maroochydore/Kawana commuters, some of the Mooloolaba/Maroochydore school students during school pickup hours as well as kids not old enough to drive and needing to get around.

602 seems a shocker, but perhaps it's not really designed as a feeder.

It's more of a hourly "milk run" serving various estate areas such as Mountain Creek, Aroona, etc. 602 should be given the chance to be upgraded to half-hourly at least since they removed the Nambour/Bli Bli bit and made that Route 612, some of the opinions in the community newspaper in those areas had people stating they would catch the 602 more if it was more frequent.

636 is also backwards from Nambour to USC.  I'm not sure what this one is for, Nambour residents studying at USC perhaps?

Spot on with this one, as well as the smaller Nambour-Buderim local traffic. People from Cooroy, Yandina, etc also connect to the Route 636.

Most of the Route 636 patronage are mainly uni students.

[somebody]

If it wasn't for the poor rail alignment, I'd see a need for a Palmwoods-Maroochydore bus route.

[O_128]

Is the SC council prepared to give money to duplicate the current SC line or is that someone else's problem. I would like to see what we already have fixed before going and building another half baked project.

[mufreight]

Is the SC council prepared to give money to duplicate the current SC line or is that someone else's problem. I would like to see what we already have fixed before going and building another half baked project.

Duplicate or replicate with a bus service?

[somebody]

Is the SC council prepared to give money to duplicate the current SC line or is that someone else's problem. I would like to see what we already have fixed before going and building another half baked project.

Got to agree with this.  Although I am more worried about the poor alignment than the single track.  Sorry.

[Golliwog]

Is the SC council prepared to give money to duplicate the current SC line or is that someone else's problem. I would like to see what we already have fixed before going and building another half baked project.

Got to agree with this.  Although I am more worried about the poor alignment than the single track.  Sorry.

But the plans involve fixing both together, not each individually.

[Arnz]

Is the SC council prepared to give money to duplicate the current SC line or is that someone else's problem. I would like to see what we already have fixed before going and building another half baked project.

Got to agree with this.  Although I am more worried about the poor alignment than the single track.  Sorry.

But the plans involve fixing both together, not each individually.

Personally if it was one or the other I'd rather have the Beerburrum to Landsborough (and Mooloolah to Eudlo) duplicated and re-aligned where necessary.  It may be costly but considering the state government still owns part of QR National, it would pay for it a number of times over.  

Even though the government only owns part of QR National now, the fees off the freight users (QR National and Pacific National) for using the state government owned track, as well as part of the revenue off QR National freight business pretty much subsidizes a part of the commuter network.

A quick question, was subsidy of the commuter network off freight much higher prior to the partial sell off of QR National?

[HappyTrainGuy]

I thought the sale of QRN was to recover debt/boost the credit rating and not to fund new infrustructure?

[Arnz]

I thought the sale of QRN was to recover debt/boost the credit rating and not to fund new infrustructure?

I've read that this may be the case from various TV media releases from the State Government.

I was led to believe however before the partial selloff of the QR Freight side (QR National), that the freight business contributed a considerable amount of ongoing subsidy to the City network side of the old Queensland Rail.   Someone in the know can correct me if necessary.

[Gazza]

I thought all services were paid for by TL?

[SurfRail]

I was led to believe however before the partial selloff of the QR Freight side (QR National), that the freight business contributed a considerable amount of ongoing subsidy to the City network side of the old Queensland Rail.   Someone in the know can correct me if necessary.

I truly doubt this - I think it is just one of those myths spun by people commenting on newspaper articles.  Business revenue from freight would almost certainly have been plumbed back into the freight system, it certainly wasn't profitable enough to fund itself AND significantly contribute to operating the SEQ network.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Yep, freight revenue was put right back into bidding for new contracts and buying out other rail networks all across Australia.

[Stillwater]

SC ratepayers are slugged an annual transport levy in their rates.  The council subsidises some evolving routes in the hope that passenger numbers will build up.  Flexilink cabs was another council initiative using this transport levy money.  Clearly, the council is prepared to put rate money into light rail, but it would see heavy rail augmentation as a state government responsibility.

Go here: http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/sitePage.cfm?code=transport-levy

[ozbob]

From the Sunshine Coast Daily click here!

Light rail a pipe dream

Light rail a pipe dream

Bill Hoffman | 5th November 2011

A LIGHT rail system proposed for the Sunshine Coast is a pipe dream that is 20 to 30 years away from becoming reality.

Retired civil engineer Adam Brunner of Buderim, who has just completed a consultancy to the Gold Coast Rapid Transport project, said while technically feasible here, in fact a piece of cake, it would be decades before the region's population could sustain the system economically.

Mr Brunner said the Gold Coast had needed a light rail network to solve a problem it had created.

"What the Sunshine Coast has to decide is whether it wants to create the same problem so that it needs light rail," he said.

And he asked whether we want the population and all the crime and social issues that come with it.

Sunshine Coast Council is running hard to promote a light rail solution for the region's future after the proposal was mooted by landscape architect James Birrell.

Mr Brunner was risk manager during the bid phase of the Gold Coast Rapid Transit submission and has 40 years experience in construction throughout Australia and the Asian region, including the past 20 years as commercial manager for major contractors.

Mr Brunner said the Gold Coast rail project, which was supported by three levels of government, private enterprise and the banks, would cost $1.5 billion to construct.

As a public-private partnership it not only would need to return the profits to justify the investment, but also to maintain it in a near pristine state for its eventual handover to the government.

He could not see state or federal government rush to invest in a similar scheme here until it was clear the Gold Coast project was sustainable. And business and banks would be indifferent unless the population was there to support it.

"The volumes just don't exist compared with the Gold Coast,'' Mr Brunner said.

"There is a real concentration of development around Broadbeach, Surfers Paradise, Southport and Robina. It will link to the new hospital and university. If the Gold Coast gets the Commonwealth Games it will also go to Helensvale.

"I can't see that it would be able to pay for itself on the Sunshine Coast for 20 to 30 years."

The council's transport portfolio head Vivien Griffin said this week she was pushing ahead to gain a consensus of support for a light rail project, initially to link Caloundra with Maroochydore and later to Sippy Downs and the airport.

[#Metro]

Doesn't seem like a bad idea- they need to

1. Preserve a corridor
2. Make sure the planning creates centres that are 'on the way'
3. Fix up the buses (more frequency, separation)

Which mode it might be can come later, but regardless, the basic groundwork (3 things above) need to be done.

CAMCOS is so important.

[Jonno]

Ah...the old population cannot sustain it because only 15% of people will ever catch public transport. The trips ate there it is just the political will to provide the supply of services to move them to public and active transport that is missing.

[Set in train]

The CAMCOS corridor is long enough and low enough density that infrequent stops and the speed of heavy rail is what is required.  The Sunshine Coast needs to be thinking "Mandurah" or "Gold Coast Line" style, not "Gold Coast Light Rail" style.

Good comment, land availibility on the Sunshine Coast mean a Mandurah style line is possible, CAMCOS provides for that (shame about the lack of double track south).

The plan is overly premature, but am impressed with one design aspect, elevated light rail.

Light rail, unimpeded, off the ground is what's needed for the Gold Coast, yet the 'be seen to be doing something is enough' mentality struck again and we're left with hundreds of conflict points along the line.