Beenleigh line station spacing

[ozbob]

If parking was tripled at Goodna and/or Wacol it might be a possibility,

Triple the amount of people park at Gailes compared Goodna!?!?

but that would take anywhere up to 3-5 years hence, which by that time the whole dynamic around Gailes would have probably changed in any case.

I think in 3-5 years it will still be a golf course and a concrete manufacturer occupying the main radius around the station.

Sorry Simon but Gailes has a considerable walk up patronage not only of those resident in the immediate area but also workers in the Wacol Industrial estate and some workers from the Wolston Memtal Health facility.

Well, all stations would have some walk up patronage with respect to those people at the industrial estate (Remember my outlandish suggestion of a station halfway between Corinda and Oxley?)
The question is weather its enough to warrant having the stations.

But you're wrong about there being a significant walk from residents, because its a 1200m walk from the station to the very top corner of the residential area (The residential area bounded by the Ipswich and Logan Motorways)
Do you even look at urban form when making your statements?

Also, for the Wolston Asylum, its a 1480m walk from Gailes to the front gate, which is also not that walk able.

Wacol has around 262 car spaces, Goodna 243.  Goodna is always overloaded with cars parking anywhere they can.  Folks drive to Goodna, no parking space so head up to Gailes.  There can be a couple of hundred cars plus at Gailes during weekdays and more at times.  Gailes has no number stated for car parking spaces as it is essentially just shoulder parking on the road and is not defined as for Wacol and Goodna.

Wacol is generally nearly full weekdays.

The rationale for the tripling is self evident.  Doubling either Wacol and Goodna would not really be enough, particularly in view of the increased residential developments going on.  If the car parking was expanded it needs to be good effort, hence tripling capacity at one of them.  The other alternative is to double both, Wacol and Goodna.

The point about a changing dynamic around Gailes was an indirect reference to Springfield railway line, and how the highway upgrades turn out.  Springfield might ease some parking pressure at the Wacol - Gailes - Goodna section, but because of the other increased residential developments it will be probably fill.  Also the highway upgrade might mean some  folks who park further out may go for closer to the CBD stations.  The new road across the highway (Logan Road Extension) also makes it easier to access Gailes from the other side by car as well.

Gailes is acting as a relief valve at the moment.  Yes, it could be closed down the track, but until something is done at Goodna, lesser extent Wacol it is still needed.

[somebody]

I think people driving to a nearer station shows the need to have faster trains.

[BrizCommuter]

Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread quite ridiculous? The cost of providing alternative transport for the hundreds inconvenienced by suggestions in thread would probably be far more than any benefits of closing a station.

If you closed a station based on patronage, then maybe we should close down most Sunshine Coast stations? If we closed a station based on the proximity to the next station then maybe we should close half of London Underground and Paris Metro* stations whilst we are at it?

* Many examples of stations less than 300m apart!

[#Metro]

Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread quite ridiculous? The cost of providing alternative transport for the hundreds inconvenienced by suggestions in thread would probably be far more than any benefits of closing a station.

If you closed a station based on patronage, then maybe we should close down most Sunshine Coast stations? If we closed a station based on the proximity to the next station then maybe we should close half of London Underground and Paris Metro* stations whilst we are at it?

* Many examples of stations less than 300m apart!

I think these are weak arguments. Paris metro is slow slow slow. ~ 20 km/hour??!! That's not what you want if you are coming in from Beenleigh etc. Same experience on Melbourne trams I had this year- slow slow slow. INFURIATINGLY slow. Oh, and stopping everywhere.

Let's say 100 people turn up at peak hour to station X. You know what, how many people fit on a train? 800-900 maybe? And that is just ONE train. So removing or skipping a station does a huge amount of benefit for far more people.

Personally I think station removal will be hard. You'd be up against NIMBY. Much easier to a) increase the frequency to cut waiting times dramatically and then on top of that b) use Zone operation / two tier all day express services to speed that up even further.

[O_128]

Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread quite ridiculous? The cost of providing alternative transport for the hundreds inconvenienced by suggestions in thread would probably be far more than any benefits of closing a station.

If you closed a station based on patronage, then maybe we should close down most Sunshine Coast stations? If we closed a station based on the proximity to the next station then maybe we should close half of London Underground and Paris Metro* stations whilst we are at it?

* Many examples of stations less than 300m apart!

I think these are weak arguments. Paris metro is slow slow slow. ~ 20 km/hour??!! That's not what you want if you are coming in from Beenleigh etc. Same experience on Melbourne trams I had this year- slow slow slow. INFURIATINGLY slow. Oh, and stopping everywhere.

Let's say 100 people turn up at peak hour to station X. You know what, how many people fit on a train? 800-900 maybe? And that is just ONE train. So removing or skipping a station does a huge amount of benefit for far more people.

Personally I think station removal will be hard. You'd be up against NIMBY. Much easier to a) increase the frequency to cut waiting times dramatically and then on top of that b) use Zone operation / two tier all day express services to speed that up even further.

Paris metro stations are ridiculously close together, no matter where you are in inner paris its only 400m to a station, difference is that people are on and off at every station and there are shops and activation.

[Golliwog]

I think people driving to a nearer station shows the need to have faster trains.

Not always, it also occurs where the zone boundaries are.

[BrizCommuter]

I think people driving to a nearer station shows the need to have faster trains.

Not always, it also occurs where the zone boundaries are.

Or they just drive to where they can actually get a car park. Note massive % increase in patronage at Grovely after it's car park expansion.

[Golliwog]

I think people driving to a nearer station shows the need to have faster trains.

Not always, it also occurs where the zone boundaries are.

Or they just drive to where they can actually get a car park. Note massive % increase in patronage at Grovely after it's car park expansion.

True. I also know people who drive to Gaythorne as, for them anyway, it's usually a little bit quicker than getting the train to the nearest station, but its also one less zone they travel through so they save money.

[O_128]

I think people driving to a nearer station shows the need to have faster trains.

Not always, it also occurs where the zone boundaries are.

Or they just drive to where they can actually get a car park. Note massive % increase in patronage at Grovely after it's car park expansion.

True. I also know people who drive to Gaythorne as, for them anyway, it's usually a little bit quicker than getting the train to the nearest station, but its also one less zone they travel through so they save money.

This is a whole other argument but Im sure making the entire FG line zone 2 would send patronage on the outer stations through the roof as well.

[somebody]

This is a whole other argument but Im sure making the entire FG line zone 2 would send patronage on the outer stations through the roof as well.

That's more of a fare level argument.  Why should the FG line be charged at a different rate to another line?

[Gazza]

Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread quite ridiculous? The cost of providing alternative transport for the hundreds inconvenienced by suggestions in thread would probably be far more than any benefits of closing a station.

If you closed a station based on patronage, then maybe we should close down most Sunshine Coast stations? If we closed a station based on the proximity to the next station then maybe we should close half of London Underground and Paris Metro* stations whilst we are at it?

* Many examples of stations less than 300m apart!

I wouldn't advocate just closing stations out of the blue, but say if/when Wacol gets upgraded with lifts, you might do a car park upgrade packaged in with it too, and then close Gailes.

[mufreight]

I wouldn't advocate just closing stations out of the blue, but say if/when Wacol gets upgraded with lifts, you might do a car park upgrade packaged in with it too, and then close Gailes.

With reference to a Wacol Station upgrade what is needed is a complete new station built to cater for four tracks, and the preocupation with lifts rather than ramps to make stations disability compliant is a perception that the current thinking in Melbourne they are presently reconsidering and are now endeavoring to reinstate ramps for passenger access at some stations which have been upgraded with disability access being provided by lifts and the ramps having been removed in the upgrades.

[somebody]

Note massive % increase in patronage at Grovely after it's car park expansion.

What increase are you referring to?  According to QR, the car park is only 208 spaces.

Is it just me or does anyone else find this thread quite ridiculous? The cost of providing alternative transport for the hundreds inconvenienced by suggestions in thread would probably be far more than any benefits of closing a station.

If you closed a station based on patronage, then maybe we should close down most Sunshine Coast stations? If we closed a station based on the proximity to the next station then maybe we should close half of London Underground and Paris Metro* stations whilst we are at it?

* Many examples of stations less than 300m apart!

I find the notion of stations 300m apart completely ridiculous, even on a metro.

[Gazza]

they are presently reconsidering and are now endeavoring to reinstate ramps for passenger access at some stations

See, this is why your logic is inconsistent.

In one thread you are saying that people with impairments cant walk very far, even just 175m, and now you are advocating an option which increases walk distances.

A ramp drops at 1 in 16.
So a rise of 7m to get over the overhead is 112m of ramp.
Then the same again on the way down makes 224m.

Which is too far to travel according to you.

[mufreight]

they are presently reconsidering and are now endeavoring to reinstate ramps for passenger access at some stations

See, this is why your logic is inconsistent.

In one thread you are saying that people with impairments cant walk very far, even just 175m, and now you are advocating an option which increases walk distances.

A ramp drops at 1 in 16.
So a rise of 7m to get over the overhead is 112m of ramp.
Then the same again on the way down makes 224m.

Which is too far to travel according to you.

Ramps and subways are considerably shorter than overhead walkways and there has been a considerable outcry over the dissability access to stations in Melbourne where ramps were removed in station revamps and replaced with lifts.  There are posts relative to this in the Victorian thread and there was recently an article in one of the magazines.
In many cases the lie of the land actually would mean that no or almost no ramp would be needed to access a subway shortening the length of ramps quite considerably.
I find it of interest that at Darra more people use the subway than the new overbridge despite it meaning a longer walk to the car parking.

[Gazza]

Yeah, but there are plenty of locations where it would viably only be an overbridge due to the lay/other conditions of the land, eg Ipswich, Richlands, Corinda, Goodna, Airport stations, Helensvale etc.