Cooroy 4th October 2011

[ozbob]

Travelled to Cooroy for the day on the 9.33am Gympie North service, and returned on the 2.03pm service ex Cooroy.

On time on the outbound journey, a few minutes late into Fortitude Valley where I left the ICE and boarded a following Richlands service.









































Photographs R Dow 4th October 2011

[ozbob]

A reverse train movement was done at Palmwoods to pass a down PASS train - here around 12 minutes lost on the return journey.  Every loop on the forward journey had a train in it, and a number of trains were passed in loops on the return journey on the single line north of Beerburrum.  

The single line constraints north of Beerburrum (and speed restriction between Beerburrum and Glass House Mountains) are also contributing to delays.  Stating the obvious I know ...  but it has to be stated.

Cooroy now has a sealed commuter car park, which had a few cars in it.

[somebody]

Every loop on the forward journey had a train in it, and a number of trains were passed in loops on the return journey on the single line north of Beerburrum.  

That's pretty impressive.  How often is it so?

[ozbob]

Every loop on the forward journey had a train in it, and a number of trains were passed in loops on the return journey on the single line north of Beerburrum.  

That's pretty impressive.  How often is it so?

My guess is essentially normal operation these days.  There seems to be little available train paths for additional trains, the Traveltrain, freight and interurban tasks has the line well stretched.  Some urgent staged upgrades need to be done, as many here have suggested.  If the line had been duplicated to Landsborough as planned this would have greatly improved reliability and capacity.  This would have enabled a few more strategic upgrades between  Landsborough and  Nambour to have had a very positive overall effect.

The Sunshine Coast line is IMHO a national crisis, and should be seen as such.

[ozbob]

Is there a major rail corridor, within a few hundred kilometres of a major population centre, with such a demanding role with respect to passenger and freight demands and with a major national security and strategic importance, that is in such a sad state in terms of capacity and speed, anywhere else in Australia?   I think not.  The state of the rail corridor north of Beerburrum through to Gympie North is a major concern.  Time to fix it.

[colinw]

Well, the Wollongong (South Coast) line out of Sydney isn't too flash either, but I think the Sunshine Coast part of the NCL takes the cake.

The failure to duplicate to Landsborough on time, and as repeatedly promised, is a complete disgrace. I can't see any way the Minister could have possibly received advice that it was acceptable, let alone a good idea. Nobody in QR, TMR or TransLink would be stupid enough to think so, as the capacity constraints are well documented, a constant operational problem for QR, and have been warned about since at least the mid '90s.

I can only assume that the failure to proceed with the project to Landsborough is deliberately political in nature, and relates to the lack of Sunshine Coast & hinterland seats held by the 'red team', in particular the loss of Glasshouse at the last State election. I'm sure that the Government would vehemently deny that is the case, but the sudden & arbitrary dropping of the project soon after Ms Male lost the seat leaves me with no alternative but to believe it was deliberate political bastardry.

Aside: I'm off to NSW to spend a few days at a friend's place in Wollongong, and just discovered that thanks to track work my train from Sydney to Wollongong on Saturday is a bus.  

[somebody]

Well, the Wollongong (South Coast) line out of Sydney isn't too flash either, but I think the Sunshine Coast part of the NCL takes the cake.

The failure to duplicate to Landsborough on time, and as repeatedly promised, is a complete disgrace. I can't see any way the Minister could have possibly received advice that it was acceptable, let alone a good idea. Nobody in QR, TMR or TransLink would be stupid enough to think so, as the capacity constraints are well documented, a constant operational problem for QR, and have been warned about since at least the mid '90s.

I can only assumed that the failure to proceed with the project to Landsborough is deliberately political in nature, and relates to the lack of Sunshine Coast & hinterland seats held by the 'red team', in particular the loss of Glasshouse at the last State election.

Aside: I'm off to NSW to spend a few days at a friend's place in Wollongong, and just discovered that thanks to track work my train from Sydney to Wollongong on Saturday is a bus.  

Perhaps disappointing, but I would say that the ~40 minute frequency and 95 minute journey time is pretty acceptable, as compared to the train's hourly frequency and 92-100 minute journey time.

[colinw]

Yeah, its actually quicker for me to backtrack to Central and get the Wollongong direct bus (I'm going to North Wollongong), than the normal train would have been going Domestic - Wolli Ck and changing.  Main reason I'm grumpy is that I really like the scenery - particularly the Stanwell Park bit.  I'm just glad I had the sense to check www.cityrail.info rather than just lobbing in and finding it was a track shutdown day.

I'm sure if I used the line for my daily commute the slow and infrequent services would all wear a bit thin, just like it does for regular Sunshine Coast commuters!

[somebody]

Woolloongong-Central vs Palmwoods-Central is about the same in journey time for both road and rail, even though W'Gong is about 20km closer.  What is different is that Woolloongong has a higher, hourly clockface frequency.  And no shuttles.

If you want an example of a line which really fails to deliver, you can't go past the Southern Highlands line and next the Blue Mountains line

[Arnz]

The Blue Mountains Line is pretty much the equivalent of the Sunshine Coast Line down in NSW.  Off-peak Services every 90-120 mins (not even clockface).  Peak services are comparable however, but with worse gaps (40 mins, 30 mins, 35 mins, etc).

The only difference with off-peak is that they have no railbuses nor Weekend train shuttles.  Only infrequent direct services.  IMO, Blue Mountains weekday off-peak is worse than Sunshine Coast weekday off-peak, but Blue Mountains weekend timetable is only marginally better than Sunshine Coast weekend timetable.  Whilst Sunshine Coast weekend services are every 90 mins, direct weekend services are only every 3 hrs. 

Only problem is it isn't that simple to chuck on a intercity service, yard stabling and allocation also has to come into play.

[somebody]

The Blue Mountains Line is pretty much the equivalent of the Sunshine Coast Line down in NSW.  Off-peak Services every 90-120 mins (not even clockface).  Peak services are comparable however, but with worse gaps (40 mins, 30 mins, 35 mins, etc).

The only difference with off-peak is that they have no railbuses nor Weekend train shuttles.  Only infrequent direct services.  IMO, Blue Mountains weekday off-peak is worse than Sunshine Coast weekday off-peak, but Blue Mountains weekend timetable is only marginally better than Sunshine Coast weekend timetable.  Whilst Sunshine Coast weekend services are every 90 mins, direct weekend services are only every 3 hrs. 

Only problem is it isn't that simple to chuck on a intercity service, yard stabling and allocation also has to come into play.

Blue Mountains line has a base hourly frequency to Katoomba.  It's mostly counter peak which is non-clockface.  It's clockface on a weekend, with a couple of extras.  The problem with the Blue Mountains line is that is so slow.  There needs to be extraordinarily bad traffic, like Boxing Day traffic, for Penrith-Katoomba to be equally slow to drive as it is on the train.

Wheris reckons: 1h3min to drive Sydney-Springwood vs 1h26min on the weekend train.
This part you only feel a little of the poor alignment.  Katoomba is:
1h38min to drive vs 2h6min

I guess that's not quite as bad as I first thought.  Still slower than the Sunshine Coast line, which in spite of our criticisms is only a little (~20min) slower than driving Central-Palmwoods, assuming you aren't on a shuttle.

Only problem is it isn't that simple to chuck on a intercity service, yard stabling and allocation also has to come into play.

It isn't that hard on a weekend.  Seriously, hourly frequency to Landsborough at least!

[Arnz]

I remember when the electric service to Caboolture was launched it only took 45 mins or so on a all-stops (assuming they weren't a Petrie-Caboolture shuttle).  On the other hand, the early Nambour to Brisbane services in the 1980s (on a EMU and the EMU/ICE hybrids) took 1hr 35 mins (running express from Caboolture to Bowen Hills stopping at Petrie and N'gate).  

The fat is pretty shocking despite the Glasshouse-Beerburrum speed restrictions, we still get into Beerwah at least 1-2 mins early on a IMU, but 5-8 mins late every time if a EMU is subsituted.

Both travel times has since increased.  Over 62 mins on a Roma Street-Caboolture all-stopper (up from 60 mins in the previous timetable) and 1hr 51 mins on the standard off-peak/weekend Roma Street to Nambour service (up from 1hr 46 mins in the previous timetable + Nundah/Toombul/EJ/Wooloowin/Albion stops added).  The Gympie North trains also had fat added despite running express Bowen Hills to Caboolture non-stop (1hr 50 mins in afternoon peak).

[somebody]

The GYN train is 40 minutes Caboolture-Bowen Hills. Interestingly, the GYN train is 9 minutes slower Nambour-Caboolture than the other trains.  I think it should be considered to make this run BH/Cab/Landsborough/Nambour/all to GYN, with a shuttle meeting at Caboolture to serve the intermediate stations.  That would be a valid use of a shuttle IMO.

[colinw]

When the wires went up in '86, the Caboolture line was touted as the fastest all stations suburban service over a comparable distance in Australia.  I can't remember the timing, but don't think it was much over 50 minutes.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Interestingly, the GYN train is 9 minutes slower Nambour-Caboolture than the other trains.

ICE sets have speed, gearing, door problems (Manual opening, gravity-spring to close, double doors ie one to the end of the carriage and another to exit etc) which result in longer transit and dwell times compared to IMUs. They were designed for long distance traveltrain runs not quick stop go stop go citytrain services which they are now assigned to do. Traffic could also play a part in that aswell.

[Arnz]

When the wires went up in '86, the Caboolture line was touted as the fastest all stations suburban service over a comparable distance in Australia.  I can't remember the timing, but don't think it was much over 50 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E0Y-umr5Uc.

The "direct" service was 42 minutes (All-stations).  Back then it was a hourly off-peak frequency in 1986 (originally a shuttle to Petrie with all-stops peak direct services).  IIRC Petrie off-peak services were extended to Caboolture in 1988 in conjunction with the Nambour electrification in 1988.

A shame all those "safety" improvements and other upgrades (The 'Doors Closing' warning, etc) led to slower running times

[somebody]

A shame all those "safety" improvements and other upgrades (The 'Doors Closing' warning, etc) led to slower running times

I don't see how this makes it more safe.  Just promotes car use by making the service slower.  Melbourne can do without them.

[colinw]

When the wires went up in '86, the Caboolture line was touted as the fastest all stations suburban service over a comparable distance in Australia.  I can't remember the timing, but don't think it was much over 50 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3E0Y-umr5Uc.

The "direct" service was 42 minutes (All-stations).  Back then it was a hourly off-peak frequency in 1986 (originally a shuttle to Petrie with all-stops peak direct services).  IIRC Petrie off-peak services were extended to Caboolture in 1988 in conjunction with the Nambour electrification in 1988.

A shame all those "safety" improvements and other upgrades (The 'Doors Closing' warning, etc) led to slower running times

42 minutes!!!!!

That explains something to me 'though.  When I moved to Brisbane in 1989, my first impression of the trains here was "wow, these are quick".  My only baseline for comparison was Sydney electric trains, which I used a fair bit as a kid in the 1970s, and the Lockyer Valley 2000 class rail motors.

These days that speed advantage Brisbane trains had seems to be almost vanished.  Beenleigh line services are a heck of a lot slower than they were when I moved to Runcorn in 1992, the only thing that is better than then is the weekend frequency.

Anyone got a 1986 "all lines" timetable book to compare with the present timetables?

I should have the 1989 one somewhere, but a quick search last night failed to find it (or any of my other 1980s rail stuff). Hopefully it didn't get wrongly thrown out the last time we moved house.

[HappyTrainGuy]

95
Beenleigh-Central: ~54 mins d:11.29 a:12.53
Ipswich-Central: ~50 Mins d:11.27 a:12.47
Rosewood-Ipswich: ~18 mins d:10.32 a:10.50
Rosewood-Central: ~1hr 10 mins 6.07 a: 7.17
Ferny Grove-Central: ~25 mins d:11.00 a:11.25
Cleveland-Central: ~51 mins d:11.16 a:12.07
Shorncliffe-Central: ~31 Mins d:11.28 a:11.59
Caboolture-Central: ~54mins d:11.16 a:12.12
Caboolture-Central express: ~40mins d:11.00 a:11.40
Nambour timetable mia.
Helensvale-Central 96: ~1hr 7mins d:11.02 a:12.09

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Caboolture 1995

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Ipswich to City 1995

Larger (about 1mb) - http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7720/ipswich1995.jpg

Beenleigh to City 1995

Larger - http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2289/beenleigh1995.jpg

Ferny Grove to City 1995

Larger - http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/55/fernygrove1995.jpg

Shorncliffe to City 1995

Larger - http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3580/shorncliffe1995.jpg

Cleveland to City 1995 (Sorry about the quality. I'll upload a better one tomorrow)

Larger - http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/618/cleveland1995.jpg

[somebody]

Tks.  What was the pattern for the Cab-Central express?  (I assume arrival time should be 11.53)

[HappyTrainGuy]

Sorry mixed the times up with 19B6 which departed at 4.13 arrived at 4.55 compared to the all stopper departing at 4.16 arriving at 5.12

19A4 departed Caboolture at 11am exp Petrie depart 11.15 exp Northgate depart 11.29 exp Bowen Hills depart 11.36 Brunswick Street depart 11.38 Central arrival 11.40 departure 11.41 Roma Street 11.43