Number of Forums/sub Forums?

[Gazza]

Hi,
Just something I've noticed in the time I've been here, but I reckon that the numbers of categories for discussion is a bit bewildering and can be excessive, to the point where the forum becomes clunky to navigate, and difficult to remember where topics are located.
I know that organisation is the rationale behind it, but how does everyone else find it?

Typically I'll just hit the "unread posts since last visit" link to keep on top of things. But say I want to go back and find something on a subsequent visit, it can take ages to go through and find where it actually was since it's not always obvious where it would've sat. (Eg imagine a topic about the Caboolture-Beerburum upgrade? Would it be in the general Qld discussion? "Sunshine Coast" subforum?  "Rail infrastructure projects" subforum?
I guess the thing with discussing transport/PT is that its all interrelated (or integrated   hopefully) and you can't talk about one aspect without inevitably discussing the others.

But in my experience moderating message boards we used to have more subcategories, but then one day the site owner decided to try simplifying it to about 4 broad discussion categories, plus your usual extra "boring" boards for formalites like site issues, announcements, Etc. after the change it became a lot easier to navigate since all topics in a given forum are there in front of you rather than hidden behind further subforums, there was less topic duplication since it was easier to find existing threads, and moderation becomes easier since there is no need to move topics to a more appropriate forum.

There is another website I frequent, which has 33,000 members and over 900,000 posts that operates with just 6 subforums.

I mean obviously the archival, and day to day running type stuff on here would make sense to leave as it is (the broad categories: Notices, Archives, Events, Photograph Links - Past Present and Future Railways, Members Forum)

But for the rest of it perhaps have.

-Single Qld forum for everything related to PT, new lines, rail transport.

-Single forum for rest of Australia which would include both open discussion, national issues and new line suggestions (Because a lot of these suggestions for new lines ones have only zero to one topic in them)

Food for thought.

[ozbob]

Thanks for your comments.  At this stage I am happy with the set up.  It is evolved out of need.  There is a major update pending with the forum (SMF 2) and any changes will be delayed till after that.  

There are very good search tools for the forum as well.  Use the search box top right.

Yes, a number of topics don't have anything in them yet.  But slowly we are branching into new areas.  We have recently gained some additional moderators for the areas.  It takes time.

[Gazza]

Another thing, Maybe things could be streamlined a bit if existing topics were used rather than starting new ones. Eg say If I was looking up about the new line to Richlands, the topics i have found relating to it include:

-Darra to Springfield Stage 1 construction Darra to Richlands
And then....
-Ballast train 2nd September 2010 - first train to reach Richlands Station
-Rail train for the Richlands Branch 12th August 2010
-Darra Junction - First train on Richlands Branch

And if we are talking about the Corinda Darra upgrade the topics on that include:
Triplication NOW QUADRUPLICATION Corinda to Darra - Oxley precinct
but also...
-Darra Station - upgrade
-Corinda to Darra - quadruplication (Corinda precinct)
-Corinda to Darra - was triplication (NOW QUADRUPLICATION)
-Oxley Foot Bridge - gone this weekend 14th 15th June

Now this is just my opinion, but why wouldn't there just be a single topic for the Richland project, and a single topic for the Corindarra project? You could click in, and then all the posts/photos would tell the story of the project in chronological order.
Having 5 topics on one project is a bit like a school student buying 5 notebooks for the one subject, and randomly doing their homework across all 5.

[Gazza]

It is evolved out of need.

In what way? Why would "Bus and Ferry" be kept separate from the open discussion for instance?

[ozbob]

Because they were later additions.  

It suits our purposes fine as it is. I have no intention of restricting topic formation and so forth. They are quite distinct the examples you mention although linked.  That is the way we do it. 

You need to have been here for the past three years or so to properly understand how it evolved.  
A lot of projects evolved at different times and so forth.  But I have noted your comments and we might streamline things a bit after the major upgrade.

Thanks.

[Gazza]

You need to have been here for the past three years or so to properly understand how it evolved. 

Please dont take this as me trying to be a smart alec or trying to rock the boat or anything like that, just wondering since this forum set up is quite different to what I normally see.
I mean, surely it's a bit extreme to have a sub forum nested 5 (!) deep inside it's parent forum. I honestly had no idea there was a dedicated "bus - rail integration" forum hidden on here because of this, and discovered it by chance about an hour ago through continued clicking.
http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?board=49.0

They are quite distinct the examples you mention although linked.  That is the way we do it.......A lot of projects evolved at different times and so forth.

Ok...Generally in this situation what I've seen done and works well is just to continue in the existing thread, and then edit the original topic title to reflect the major change. I'm a big fan of "mega threads" to do with a major project because it becomes a one stop shop to see it all come together.

[ozbob]

I hear you Gazza!   The bus thread you mention was a particular request but I agree it is buried. See what I can do about that. (edit: moved up now).

We get a lot of positive feedback on the forum as well.  There are options to hide areas users may not interested in, and also set notifications on any thread etc.  When I do the upgrade I will be streamlining a bit (the forum has grown rapidly in the last year), always planned to do that.  I am not going to do anything now until the SMF 2 final is made available.  It is a lot of work and all feeds and what not has to be modified as well.

[Gazza]

We get a lot of positive feedback on the forum as well.

Well, its a great concept on the whole isn't it 

[johnnigh]

I have to say, Bob, that I waste quite a bit of time trying to track down stuff by trawling through forums. It's a tricky business setting up the best system but after a few years of adding new bits as new issues pop up maybe a spring clean is in order.

As an example, I replied to something you wrote this morning about when the new timetables are to be introduced. Now I can't find it again! My own stupidity, I'm sure, but for a moderate user who doesn't get into all the issues, I don't commit to memory all the tricks of navigation. I imagine lots of others ditto.

The committed contributors know their way around, but the general lurkers like me find that even the two very useful links "Show unread posts since last visit." and "Show new replies to your posts." sometimes don't apparently do what they claim. I guess this is an issue to do with the list's host and its software. More precise software probably comes at a significant cost, which precludes use by this 'free membership' online group. And this last is the most important and positive aspect of the group's influence on service providers.

Thanks for all your work on the website, Bob. We'd all be lost without you.

cheers,
John

[ozbob]

Thanks John!  Practice makes perfect  

There are some very useful tools search, profile etc.  

This help guide is quite useful too --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?action=help

(Click on help tab main menu bar along the top)

[Gazza]

Thanks for your comments.  At this stage I am happy with the set up.  It is evolved out of need.  There is a major update pending with the forum (SMF 2) and any changes will be delayed till after that. 

Is there any movements on this? I still find the forum needlessly complex.

In the same way that the Brisbane bus network has "evolved" of the years, until it has become the tangled mess it is today, and needs to be simplifed into a legible network free of historical oddities, then surley the RBOT forums should have the same treatment to make them user friendly and clean it up a bit.

[ozbob]

Yes, when time permits.  SMF 2 is now stable.  But it is a big task and I have a life to live as well.  Not sure when I will get to it, some major busy issues personally looming at the moment.  Grandchildren on the way and so forth.

But the present structure works, there is room for some rationalisation.  You either have massive boards or sub boards which break it up.

[Gazza]

But the present structure works,

You could well be a TL spokesman, talking about how the fares are set up

there is room for some rationalisation.

Indeed

You either have massive boards or sub boards which break it up.

I'm a a fan of the bigger boards, because they require less clicking.

The thing is, we have a total of 47 boards, and I don't believe for a minute there needs to be 47 ways to divide up the basic topics we talk about on a day to day basis, or that is actually efficient to have 47 boards.

I reckon a good way to look at is is just like the bus network. If a certain board just isn't getting the posts, then that's one for the scrapper, and it can safely be rolled in with another board. Of course, existing users/the elderly might complain at the change, but if its for the greater good, then it needs to be done.

[ozbob]

You either have massive boards or sub boards which break it up.
I'm a a fan of the bigger boards, because they require less clicking.

Yes, but others see it differently, prefer more structure.  Use the tools to navigate if that is your worry (eg. jump to, bottom each page).  As I said when time permits ...

Matter of what is best for all overall ...

[Gazza]

Should we have a poll?

I just reckon limiting it to say 10 or so boards would well and truly cover it.

[ozbob]

Have a poll by all means.  But I have no intention of changing too much at present or the future. It works fine, the effort involved is just too great and folks are used to the basic setup.

SMF has different structures and tools to break down the complexity.  I don't like massive boards, prefer structure which is basically why it has evolved the way it has.

When SMF2 looks rock solid I will be setting up a dummy site to experiment.  It is the sort of thing that is going to take a while though.  I don't expect to be tackling it till around December/January all being well.

[Gazza]

But I have no intention of changing too much at present or the future.

It works fine,

the effort involved is just too great

folks are used to the basic setup.

Come on though...Isn't that sort of a TL type response?

[ozbob]

Gazza, I have stated my position.  Have you any idea the effort it takes to look after a site like this?

There are a lot of things to consider.  It doesn't really matter if there are 470 boards.  Use the tools ...  

[Gazza]

Gazza, I have started my position.  Have you any idea the effort it takes to look after a site like this?

Indeed. I help run www.parkz.com.au

[ozbob]

 

[Fares_Fair]

I have to say, Bob, that I waste quite a bit of time trying to track down stuff by trawling through forums. It's a tricky business setting up the best system but after a few years of adding new bits as new issues pop up maybe a spring clean is in order.

As an example, I replied to something you wrote this morning about when the new timetables are to be introduced. Now I can't find it again! My own stupidity, I'm sure, but for a moderate user who doesn't get into all the issues, I don't commit to memory all the tricks of navigation. I imagine lots of others ditto.

The committed contributors know their way around, but the general lurkers like me find that even the two very useful links "Show unread posts since last visit." and "Show new replies to your posts." sometimes don't apparently do what they claim. I guess this is an issue to do with the list's host and its software. More precise software probably comes at a significant cost, which precludes use by this 'free membership' online group. And this last is the most important and positive aspect of the group's influence on service providers.

Thanks for all your work on the website, Bob. We'd all be lost without you.

cheers,
John

Hello Johnnigh,

I have done the same as you.
The Solution ... go to your PROFILE tab at the top of the page (HOME  HELP  SEARCH  PROFILE MY MESSAGES etc.)
Under PROFILE INFO select Show posts.
It brings up all your most recent posts submitted.
It's great and it works !

Regards,
Fares_Fair.