3 Jul 2011: SEQ: 104 not effectively replacing Tennyson trains ...

[ozbob]

Media release 3 July 2011

SEQ: 104 not effectively replacing Tennyson trains, time to value add

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers calls for a review of the effectiveness of replacing the Tennyson trains with 104 bus services.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"Anecdotal evidence suggests that the 40 daily 104 bus services are carrying less than 10% of the passengers which the via Tennyson trains carried previously, and these trains only ran 4 times daily in the peak direction and had 5 other services.  RAIL Back On Track members suggest that the main reason for this is the failure to extend the 104 to serve Mater Hill, South Bank and the Cultural Centre.  Serving the CBD would also mean a rough doubling the frequency for Fairfield Rd/Park Rd, Yeronga."

"We applaud TransLink's concept of the 104, 105, 107 and 108 services all serving the Boggo Rd and PA Hospital Busway stations.  This also improves the idea of connecting all of the via Tennyson bus services with Graceville Railway Station and Indooroopilly interchange.  That would allow a single route for via Tennyson similar to what has been previously proposed (1,2) which would be combined with a Yeronga West route."

"Increasing the direct service for Fairfield Gardens would be a real benefit for negligible additional costs.  There could be a service meeting every train from Ipswich at Graceville by consolidating the 105's Tennyson service onto this single proposed route (3)."

"RAIL Back On Track members and the community generally would also like to see the PM via Tennyson trains return, which could remain even after the phase two timetable reviews as these trains ran before the evening peak services and so there were no capacity issues over the Merivale Bridge with them.  These trains were used by a large number of school children as well as others."

References:

1. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5808.0

2. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5681.0

3. https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CYpLck7HGNo/Tg68KJTzkTI/AAAAAAAAAFs/b_C7BQREbGU/s800/new_104.JPG

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Thread --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5681.0

[ozbob]

Also discussion last passenger train Tennyson --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6083.0

[Andrew]

"Anecdotal evidence suggests that the 40 daily 104 bus services are carrying less than 10% of the passengers which the via Tennyson trains carried previously, and these trains only ran 4 times daily in the peak direction and had 5 other services.  RAIL Back On Track members suggest that the main reason for this is the failure to extend the 104 to serve Mater Hill, South Bank and the Cultural Centre.  Serving the CBD would also mean a rough doubling the frequency for Fairfield Rd/Park Rd, Yeronga."

I think that people need to learn how to interchange.  The 104 has much better connections now it goes to Boggo Road Busway Station.  The 104 also serves the Tennyson area much better as it is an all stops service.  Tennyson residents won't have to walk so far to catch public transport now.  The train service overall is actually inferior.  Further to walk, have to change if you want to travel to Sherwood or connect with the Great Circle Line.  The only thing you gain with the train is a quicker travel time which is negated by the abovementioned items.

"We applaud TransLink's concept of the 104, 105, 107 and 108 services all serving the Boggo Rd and PA Hospital Busway stations.  This also improves the idea of connecting all of the via Tennyson bus services with Graceville Railway Station and Indooroopilly interchange.  That would allow a single route for via Tennyson similar to what has been previously proposed (1,2) which would be combined with a Yeronga West route."

"Increasing the direct service for Fairfield Gardens would be a real benefit for negligible additional costs.  There could be a service meeting every train from Ipswich at Graceville by consolidating the 105's Tennyson service onto this single proposed route (3)."

Creating two seperate bus routes will give a raw deal for Yeronga people who want to travel to Indooroopilly or the Ipswich Line.  Graceville station as mentioned in other threads is NOT wheelchair accessible. This is one of the reasons that the 104 uses Corinda and not Sherwood, Graceville or Chelmer in the first place.  The 104, when introduced, was also designed to make up for the removal of the route 6 back in 1999.  The route 6 used to follow the pre-PA Hospital Busway 108 route to Graceville Ave, then turn left into Oxley Rd and then follow the route 106 to Canossa Hospital.  Some variations would only travel as far as Corinda.  Also the 105 as timetabled via Ashby St to Fairfield Gardens only takes two minutes off the journey from Cultural Centre compared with the 196 BUZ.  The 196 is more frequent and drops people closer.  I would be in favour of a Yeronga West route being introduced alongside the 105 in the daytime but I think that the bus routes as they are aren't too bad.  They all have a purpose. 

No offence guys but I think you dropped the ball on this one.  The proposals as suggested have not been adequately thought through.  I would rather see the money invested in a much more frequent rail service than a reduced, inferior bus service.

[ozbob]

I don't think anyone has dropped the ball ...  it depends on your perspective.

Feedback received, thanks:

I sometimes get the 209 to the PA , then the 104 to Corinda and the loading on the 4.43 PM service would only be appox 5 people.  Driver training is also a problem on this as I have been asked on two occasions by drivers  if I new the run  (and have guided the drivers , which they have been very grateful.) From what the drivers tell me once the Sherwood depot is open it will be transferred to their depot.

[somebody]

Andrew, I don't think so.

Graceville may not be wheelchair accessible, but I do not think that the care factor is particularly high.  They can use Indooroopilly or go around via Roma St.  Graceville's inaccessibility is surely a bigger deal for Graceville residents!  Are you saying then that the 104 has a higher proportion of wheelchair bound pax as compared to other routes?

"People need to learn how to interchange" - maybe, but not in this case.  I cannot support a bus terminating so near to the CBD without actually entering it!  Unless it's actually going somewhere such as UQ, of course.

You don't like changing the bus routes much do you?  Do you think anyone would actually intentionally come up with the system we currently have from scratch?

[#Metro]

I think it is partly advertising as well. People need to know that it has a CITY CONNECTION as well...

[ozbob]

The train service overall is actually inferior.

Disagree.  The train service, even if limited was extremly well patronised and of much benefit as a link from the southern and western lines.  The bus solution has not worked well at all, hence some suggestions for improvement. This is from feedback from those who used rail and have attempted to use the bus.  Many have simply given up.

This was the pax unloading on the last service at Corinda on the 3rd June.



Thread --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=6083.msg58450#msg58450

[somebody]

Further to what ozbob has said, while the concept of interchange isn't that bad heading toward South Brisbane, it is very poor in the opposite direction.  Neither the 109 nor the train service is reliable nor frequent enough to not need to be very careful to avoid missing the 104 connection at Boggo Rd, and the 104 isn't exactly frequent enough that this is acceptable.

[Andrew]

I don't think anyone has dropped the ball ...  it depends on your perspective.

The reason for my comment is that I think for Rail Back On Track to have and maintain credibility, it has to suggest ideas that are well thought through.  You cannot really have ideas that will satisfy some parties and not others if you're proposing to modify the existing arrangement and have the modifications be a success.  The reconfiguring of the Ipswich bus services is a good case in point.  Re-instating the train in the PM peak has benefits; I acknowledge that and wouldn't be against a trial of the idea.  The main thrust of the media release seemed to be to get rid of the Corinda connection of the 104 altogether in favour of an Indooroopilly bus route.  This is why I think the preverbial ball has been dropped because the bus route idea put forward is not that good.

Graceville may not be wheelchair accessible, but I do not think that the care factor is particularly high.  They can use Indooroopilly or go around via Roma St.  Graceville's inaccessibility is surely a bigger deal for Graceville residents!  Are you saying then that the 104 has a higher proportion of wheelchair bound pax as compared to other routes?

No but it does seem to attract a noticeable number of elderly passengers.  And I'm sure Graceville (and Chelmer and Sherwood) is a big deal for the local residents.  The main point about wheelchair accessibility is that the Indooroopilly bus route idea will not give a comparable service to what is already in existance.  This is why I am against it.  It will add travel time and inconvenience compared to what is currently there.

"People need to learn how to interchange" - maybe, but not in this case.  I cannot support a bus terminating so near to the CBD without actually entering it!  Unless it's actually going somewhere such as UQ, of course.

I can.  Have you seen how many buses traverse Cultural Centre in the peak hour?

You don't like changing the bus routes much do you?

Despite how my posts might come across, I am not against changing bus routes.  The litmus test for me is that the change has to leave a comparable or improved service in place.  Take the 196BUZ for example.  The more able bodied people would not suffer much inconvenience by having to walk an extra block or so to Oxlade Dr or Brunswick St.  The trade off for that was the 196 service was doubled on a weekend.  The 193 was left in place to provide a token service for those who really need it.  The 197 didn't run on weekends (no change there) and the only real loss of service was some afternoon 197's ex Merthyr which the 193 doesn't cover.  Overall, despite some loss of service, I think the whole package was a reasonable compromise with a big boost on the Weekend.  What your suggesting with the 104 etc. is talking about a complete loss of service for the Corinda area as far as the 104 is concerned and the severing of a direct link between Yeronga and Indooroopilly.  That is why I am so opposed to the idea.

Do you think anyone would actually intentionally come up with the system we currently have from scratch?

They may not have come up with the same system from scratch Simon, I don't dispute that.  But to be honest, that is the beginnings of a tangent.  The fact of the matter at hand is that we aren't starting from scratch.  People already have a direct bus service that provides links between places such as Yeronga and Indooroopilly, Corinda and Tennyson etc.  If you are trying to encourage people to leave the car at home, removing a bus service or changing it to something inferior is not the way to do it.

Further to what ozbob has said, while the concept of interchange isn't that bad heading toward South Brisbane, it is very poor in the opposite direction.  Neither the 109 nor the train service is reliable nor frequent enough to not need to be very careful to avoid missing the 104 connection at Boggo Rd, and the 104 isn't exactly frequent enough that this is acceptable.

The 104 does maintain a connection with the train from the City at Yeerongpilly during the daytime.  I think that improving the train frequency and timetabling on the Beenleigh line during the daytime perhaps with a couple of PM Corinda via Sth Bris trains as suggested by Ozbob would be a much better idea.

[ozbob]

I certainly wasn't suggesting removal of the 104 just improving it, nor removing the Corinda connection.  There was some other suggestions made for possible consideration for route changes, they are not absolutes "This also improves the idea of connecting all of the via Tennyson bus services with Graceville Railway Station and Indooroopilly interchange." ... only an idea.  Media releases are not always the perfect solution but are tools to highlight an issue.  Hence, no one has dropped the ball, far from it.  Often we find that from 'out-lier' positions comes a discussion and compromise which then results in an optimum solution.

RAIL Back On Track's credibility is actually improved by this media release as it shows we are on the game and are actually highlighting the issue, not pretending bus is the perfect solution when it is clearly not, and suggesting some options.  This is the way it works. 

[somebody]

I certainly have seen how many buses use the Cultural Centre in peak hour.  The 104 should NOT be the fall guy for that 222 There are numerous more effective solutions here.

I think the major point of the release was extending the 104 to the CBD.  The Graceville idea was a secondary one.  Practical observations are against your idea of interchange for this route.  Virtually no one uses it now, when the trains were actually well used.  Care to suggest a reason, if it isn't the interchange?