Public Transport Advisory Group : Will we know who it's members are ?

[Fares_Fair]

Hello All,

The Public Transport Advisory Group was to be formed in time to come to a decision on the reintroduction of 6 and 12 month tickets.

Given that this is required to be in train (pun intended) for the upcoming State budget ...  and given that the 2011–12 Queensland State Budget will be delivered by the Treasurer and Minister for State Development and Trade, the Honourable Andrew Fraser MP, on Tuesday, 14 June 2011.

Does anyone know or can say where things are at ?
Will the members be announced publicly ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

The state budget would have been wrapped up weeks ago, with only finishing touches to go.  When I say 'finishing touches' I mean the printing of the document.  It should be at final oroof stage and the government media machine will be in ovedrige producing publicity material region by region, electorate by electorate.  After all, it is an election budget.

[Stillwater]

Seem to have some proofing errors of my own in that last post.   

[Fares_Fair]

You can correct them SW.

Yes, you are right about the budget being signed, sealed and soon to be delivered - which makes the PT advisory groups discussion on the 6 and 12 month tickets return (which the Minister said was the first thing on their agenda)a bit of a fait accompli perhaps, given the public statement.

Yes, true, it is a political football at the moment, the whole Sunshine Coast rail transport issue.
What will all sides do about it is the BIG question.

I don't expect the opposition to announce any policy until an election is called - that is par for the political course.
But I would expect an announcement that will address the issues raised or else why would they continue the game if there isn't a plan at the end of it. That's just my opinion.

The Government on the other hand has made it political as the SCD story last Saturday clearly portrays.
Sadly, it is political. How do we divorce that from the argument. I do not know. The facts speak for themselves.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Fares_Fair]

Hello All,

The Public Transport Advisory Group was to be formed in time to come to a decision on the reintroduction of 6 and 12 month tickets.

Given that this is required to be in train (pun intended) for the upcoming State budget ...  and given that the 2011–12 Queensland State Budget
will be delivered by the Treasurer and Minister for State Development and Trade, the Honourable Andrew Fraser MP, on Tuesday, 14 June 2011.

Does anyone know or can say where things are at ?
Will the members be announced publicly ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

This makes me a Dorothy Dixer.

Answer, I guess not. 

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

Who knows about the budget.  It may be that sums have been done that take account of change in the fare revenue structure, leaving the detail (how it is to be [re]structured) to be worked out at some later date.

As to the SC situation and the recent comments from the Minister and from the other side in the past, I am like the audience member who is sitting through a play that is so bad, so gory and so profane that I feel better by walking out.  Our political parties are the players on the stage.  If the audience walks out, they must then realise that its time to change the script.

As to your other comments, I suppose I would feel better if the LNP guaranteed it would have a transport policy for Queensland and the Coast ready to release at the time the next election is called.  (It is not saying this at the moment.)  At least that would indicate that one is being formulated.  The promise currently is to devise a strategy 'in government'.  As I have said before, it should not just be a string of projects.  It must be more comprehensive than that.

[Stillwater]

To bring the thread back to theme, true policy development would involve a dialogue with the community, business groups, PT unions and others.  The proposed Ministerial Advisory Group the Minister is setting up is one conduit for good policy to be shaped, rationally and comprehensively.  It would be a tragedy if the first time Queenslanders see the LNP's transport policy is the day the election is called, because no-one could convince me that a sound and sensible debate could be had over the course of the election campaign to allow for refinements.  By holding back policies, the government and the LNP risk hitting us with a new one every day of an election campaign.  Any one policy (say transport) could be swamped by the others.  Is that democracy for, by and of the people -- or just a ruling class saying 'take it or leave it'?

[#Metro]

Well now that 'Concrete' Campbell is at the helm, I expect that they are in some kind of review and formulation stage.

The transport minister's release was just taunting. It will have no long term impact. Come election day there will be a policy-- or a blunder!!!

LESS CONCRETE, MORE SERVICES PLZ!

[Fares_Fair]

Back to topic, any word on the PT Advisory Group and its' champions ?
I am reasonably certain that I am counted out.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Stillwater]

I appreciate what you think TT because it helps us expand the boundaries.  In this debate, and at this time, it is the KNOWN that's important.  We know there is no LNP transport policy.  We know the party has said it will will have a policy 'in government'.  What we need to ascertain, despite what people might be thinking, is whether they will develop a policy in time for the next election.  So what's needed is a statement that the LNP will have such a policy completed by about February next year, which leaves little time to develop something so complex.  The LNP is so much further behind the eightball because, unlike the government, it does not have the resources of the public service to work away at producing one.

Again what we know is that when elected parliamentary representatives are asked 'where would you spend $1 billion on transport' they didn't do what they were elected to do - voice the people's views on the matter at hand ... whether it be transport, health or something else.  What does that say?  It says that the LNP members are reduced to being store dummies that become animated on policy only when Campbell Newman shoves his arm up their bums and moves their lips like a ventriloquist.  That makes the LNP look like a bunch of impotents led by someone who is not an elected parliamentarian.  At this stage in the electoral cycle, we should be seeing an alternative government in waiting.  We are not.

[mufreight]

Once again Stillwater right on the mark.   

[dwb]

Does it matter?

Hello All,

The Public Transport Advisory Group was to be formed in time to come to a decision on the reintroduction of 6 and 12 month tickets.

Given that this is required to be in train (pun intended) for the upcoming State budget ...  and given that the 2011–12 Queensland State Budget will be delivered by the Treasurer and Minister for State Development and Trade, the Honourable Andrew Fraser MP, on Tuesday, 14 June 2011.

Does anyone know or can say where things are at ?
Will the members be announced publicly ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

To bring the thread back to theme, true policy development would involve a dialogue with the community, business groups, PT unions and others.  The proposed Ministerial Advisory Group the Minister is setting up is one conduit for good policy to be shaped, rationally and comprehensively.  It would be a tragedy if the first time Queenslanders see the LNP's transport policy is the day the election is called, because no-one could convince me that a sound and sensible debate could be had over the course of the election campaign to allow for refinements.  By holding back policies, the government and the LNP risk hitting us with a new one every day of an election campaign.  Any one policy (say transport) could be swamped by the others.  Is that democracy for, by and of the people -- or just a ruling class saying 'take it or leave it'?

I doubt the Ministerial Advisory Group will produce any valuable outcomes nor any authentic dialogue with the community. I also don't believe that you will really see any policy from politicians before the election, you will just see politics... name calling... cost of living rises, big new taxes, govt waste, roads, roads roads. Campbell is as predictable as the sun.

[dwb]

Below is the abstract from my masters thesis which examined how Translink could authentically engage with the community over fares if it decided to. I would highly recommend any members of the forum who haven't already, to have a read of my research.

How-TransLink-could-engage-the-community-to-produce-an-equitable-and-future-focused-fare-structure
http://www.scribd.com/doc/24740277/

Recommendations-to-the-creation-of-a-fares-strategy-to-support-improved-public-transport-in-South-East-Queensland
http://www.scribd.com/doc/21280263/

This research seeks to build upon a wealth of knowledge and practice in community engagement and suggests that the adoption by TransLink of a values‐based, framework approach to community engagement will enable the development of an acceptable, future focused and equitable public transport fares structure in South East Queensland. It is hoped that TransLink will use the recommendations of this research to frame and undertake community engagement. It is argued that authentic community engagement will enable improved policy, planning and implementation outcomes to the benefit of TransLink and the community at large. This research recommends a values‐based, transparent and consistent framework approach to community engagement and also includes a draft engagement plan specific to the topic of fares.

The initial stage of this research involved an in‐depth policy and literature review, community consultation and interviews with planning professionals. It produced recommendations to the creation of a fare strategy for public transport in South East Queensland.

During this research it became apparent that community engagement wasn't being undertaken. The two major reasons why this might be the case related to either: a) a lack of motivation or understanding of the benefits of community engagement, or b) simply a lack of understanding of how to engage (the values, processes, methods and tools needed support authentic engagement).

This research paper will address the more practical aspects of how to engage and is premised on a broadly held theoretical perspective that it is both good to engage and that authentic engagement does actually improve outcomes. In response to time and resource constraints the author perceives a greater benefit may be achieved by improving local practical knowledge of how to do it effectively rather than why to do it at all. This is especially relevant as any future decision to engage is likely to be driven top‐down (as a political response to community backlash during the implementation of an unresponsive fares policy) and not by improved practitioner understanding of the reason.

Public transport services are central to compact, liveable, socially just and environmentally sensitive urban form. Although often ignored by the field of urban and regional planning, pricing and other measures are likely to be significant determiners to the use of public transport. Given this, community engagement that improves the quality/price and value tradeoffs of public transport are likely to result in an improved urban outcome through increased use and reliance on public transport alternatives to private car ownership and use.

[Fares_Fair]

Does it matter?

Hello All,

The Public Transport Advisory Group was to be formed in time to come to a decision on the reintroduction of 6 and 12 month tickets.

Given that this is required to be in train (pun intended) for the upcoming State budget ...  and given that the 2011–12 Queensland State Budget will be delivered by the Treasurer and Minister for State Development and Trade, the Honourable Andrew Fraser MP, on Tuesday, 14 June 2011.

Does anyone know or can say where things are at ?
Will the members be announced publicly ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

I think so and you are welcome to disagree as much as I am welcome to ask the question.
If I was a part of it I would want people to know so that I could be a conduit for giving a voice to the region I represent.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[dwb]

I think so and you are welcome to disagree as much as I am welcome to ask the question.
If I was a part of it I would want people to know so that I could be a conduit for giving a voice to the region I represent.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

No need to be testy, I think members names should be published, what I was inferring was that the advisory group itself probably won't be much use.

[Fares_Fair]

I think so and you are welcome to disagree as much as I am welcome to ask the question.
If I was a part of it I would want people to know so that I could be a conduit for giving a voice to the region I represent.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

No need to be testy, I think members names should be published, what I was inferring was that the advisory group itself probably won't be much use.

Under the cirumstances my approach was appropriate and fair.

Why do you think it will not be of much use ?
It gives direct access to the Minister and the CEO of Translink.
If people want a voice, and the Sunshine Coast surely does, that has to be a significant improvement, don't you think ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[dwb]

I believe this form of engagement gives certain groups voices and prevents others from being heard. I would much prefer a different format of engagement, many options of which I've espoused in my research.

[SurfRail]

I believe this form of engagement gives certain groups voices and prevents others from being heard. I would much prefer a different format of engagement, many options of which I've espoused in my research.

I'm inclined to agree with you - but, all we can do is work with what we have got, regrettably, and call on them to improve.

[Stillwater]

It is preferable to work within the tent, then try and redesign the tent if it is found to be restricting or inadequate.

[somebody]

I think any attempt to improve consultation should be applauded.

[Fares_Fair]

I agree with you Simon and SW.

The consultation is to be commended, and the Minister has done a good thing by inviting the heads of the relevant authorities to the meetings.
After all that's where the buck lies. She does seem to know her mind and exercise authority where it counts.

Regards,
Fares_fair.

[Stillwater]

Okay FF, did you get a rejection letter, or a congratulatory one?   

[Fares_Fair]

rejection .. 

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[BrizCommuter]

BrizCommuter was also rejected.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/05/brisbane-politician-says-something.html

[#Metro]

In other news BrizCommuter has been turned down for a place on the Public Transport Advisory Group. Knowledge of better other public transport systems is obviously not a requirement. At least Mrs Jones from the local retirement home can represent NorthWest Brisbane commuters. Apparently she is happy with the two hourly bus service to her local shops, still buys paper tickets with 5c coins, and would like all train carriages to be Quiet Carriages.

 

Isn't it one per region?

[dwb]

It is preferable to work within the tent, then try and redesign the tent if it is found to be restricting or inadequate.

Why build a tent if you know it is going to be worse than the teepee you already have? Under some presumption that "tents" somehow trump "teepees"?

[ozbob]

Isn't it one per region?

There is a rep from each of these regions:

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Community-and-environment/Community-engagement/Public-Transport-Advisory-Group.aspx

Nominations are now closed for the role of Public Transport Champion in the following local government regions:

    Brisbane West
    Brisbane South
    Brisbane East
    Brisbane North
    Gold Coast
    Sunshine Coast
    Moreton Bay
    Logan
    Ipswich
    Redlands.

[colinw]

http://statements.cabinet.qld.gov.au/MMS/StatementDisplaySingle.aspx?id=75035

Transport and Multicultural Affairs
The Honourable Annastacia Palaszczuk

Thursday, June 02, 2011

Public transport advisory group meets for the first time

Ten Queensland commuters have been appointed champions of public transport and will represent their communities on the government's newly formed Public Transport Advisory Group.

Transport Minister Annastacia Palaszczuk said the champions were chosen by her department from more than 110 applicants as the people best placed to represent their local communities.

"These are people who responded to my call to get involved and have their say on public transport across South East Queensland," she said.

"The group will regularly join me, as chair, and representatives of government, community groups and business, to discuss options to address significant issues for public transport users."

Ms Palaszczuk said the successful applicants were chosen according to selection criteria to ensure a fair and balanced community representation.

"It's an exciting time for public transport in South East Queensland," she said.

"We have some of the biggest transport projects in Australia underway including the extension of the rail line to Springfield and the Eastern and Northern Busway projects.

"I'm confident this new advisory is passionate about public transport and together we can focus on providing better and easily accessible services for commuters.

This morning the advisory group met for the first time and received a briefing on the introduction of the new rail timetables for the Ipswich and Caboolture lines which will start on Monday 6 June and add an additional 150,000 seats per week to the network and more frequent services.

Queensland Rail's success with the quiet carriage option for commuters, the need for improved transport technology on smart phones, Brisbane's world class busways and focus on customer service also received endorsement at this morning's meeting.

Ms Palaszczuk thanked all participants for expressing interest in participating in the group.

Further meetings of the advisory group will be held every two months with the next meeting to be held in August.

Those selected to the Public Transport Advisory Group include:

• Michaela Van Balveren, Brisbane East Region, representing Murrarie Progress Association
• Donald Campbell, Brisbane North Region, representing CBD Bicycle Users Group (BUG)
• Wilson Lowe, Brisbane West Region
• Steven Jamieson, Gold Coast Region
• Steven Lucas, Ipswich Region
• Luk Moore, Logan Region, representing Nathan Campus Student Representative Council, Griffith University
• Benjamin Murphy, Moreton Bay Region
• Peter Black, Redland Region, representing the Queensland Blind Association
• Natasha Hart, Sunshine Coast Region, representing Nambour Safe
• Steve Bowen, representing Brisbane City Council South.

In addition to those selected the Advisory Group includes representatives from:

• The Department of Transport and Main Roads
• TransLink Transit Authority
• Queensland Rail
• Virgin Australia
• Queensland Tourism Industry Council
• Rail Back on Track
• Queensland Council of Social Service Inc
• Disabilities Council Queensland
• Federation of Ethnic Communities Council of Queensland
• Council on the Ageing
• Older People Speak Out
• Carers Queensland Representative
• Queensland Council of Parents and Citizens Association Inc
• Returned and Services League of Australia
• University student representative

Rather interesting that Airtrain doesn't appear to be represented.

[somebody]

And Virgin Australia are represented!

[justanotheruser]

BrizCommuter was also rejected.
http://brizcommuter.blogspot.com/2011/05/brisbane-politician-says-something.html

are they no longer reimbursing those penalty fares? They always used to refund mine.

Anyway back to topic....

[Fares_Fair]

Does anyone know what 'Nambour Safe' is ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[Sunbus610]

Does anyone know what 'Nambour Safe' is ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

From my understanding it's a Sunshine Coast Council / Queensland Police Service / Nambour Chambers of Commerce action plan and initiative to keep the town as a safer community. There is a similar one for Buderim as well - Buderim Safe.

[Fares_Fair]

Does anyone know what 'Nambour Safe' is ?

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

From my understanding it's a Sunshine Coast Council / Queensland Police Service / Nambour Chambers of Commerce action plan and initiative to keep the town as a safer community. There is a similar one for Buderim as well - Buderim Safe.

If that is the case, what connection does that have with public transport ?


Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[SurfRail]

I am happy that the group represents a fairly broad spectrum of people - genders, backgrounds, ages and competencies have all been drawn reasonably well. 

Our first meeting this morning was positive, and while it was mainly a lot of the usual meet and greet thing, there was recognition that the next few meetings will be longer and involve more discussion.

[somebody]

Be interesting to see minutes from these meetings.

[mufreight]

I am happy that the group represents a fairly broad spectrum of people - genders, backgrounds, ages and competencies have all been drawn reasonably well. 

Our first meeting this morning was positive, and while it was mainly a lot of the usual meet and greet thing, there was recognition that the next few meetings will be longer and involve more discussion.

That you are involved is great SurfRail, but while discussion might get opinions accross it is the results that count and hopefully there will be actual results and that as a forum it will not be, as is the Premiers Question Time, a forum for more Government inspired spin and propoganda and then be misused as a justification for more obfuscation and delay while reports, feasability studies and further assessments are conducted with no intention of doing anything unless there is no choice and the forum exists for no purpose other than to delay doing anything rather than be a neculus for productive results.
Only time will tell and only those actually involved like yourself and Ozbob will realy know.

[Stillwater]

Agree with Mufreight on this one -- there must be a balance between the top down approach (i.e lecturing the the community reps that they are lucky to have a 'world class' PT system and they should go spread the word to their communities) versus the bottom to top approach (community reps bringing to the attention of the top brass issues of concerns acrossing line and regions -- and expecting something to be done about it).  It is a bit bureaucratic, but it would be good to see some sort of agenda, or 'action' plan for this group.