Poll : Information provided for system delays.

[Fares_Fair]

Hello All,

I would be interested to get a broad cross-section of opinions on the information provided to commuters when there are delays to the rail or bus or ferry networks.

The length of the delay is assumed to be given in all options provided.
Option 5 allows for an additional ETA (estimated time of arrival) at the terminating station or interchange or ferry landing.
If you prefer an ETA with any other option, please note it in a reply post.

Option 1 is for no information on the event causing the delay.
Option 2 is for a simple generic description of the delay, e.g. signal problems or police incident only.
Option 3 is for a detailed description given, e.g. signals faulty, electricians on way to site.
Option 4 is for a graphic description of the delay, and this may include stabbing/accident at Example Station.
Option 5 is for the most detailed response possible, similar to Option 4 but also with an ETA (estimated time of arrival).

Thank you for your response to this poll.

Kind regards,
Fares_Fair.

Edit: Word revised and replaced with new word in Bold text.

[petey3801]

Option 4 is NOT a good idea. Incidents such as suicides/attempted suicides etc. should not be reported to the public. Why do you think you very rarely ever see a report of a train-related suicide in the media?

Answer: It is not reported so as to prevent copy-cats, giving people in a situation (suicidal situation) an idea about how to end it all quickly. That is something we should most certainly NOT be promoting.

Option 3 is probably the most suitable and is often what is already done by QR. Often times, an ETA of having the problem fixed is not an option, because it is simply not known. As we have seen recently, there have been ETA reports of trains being back to normal during delays (ie: Trains to return to normal by 10am etc.) which have proved to be quite wrong (the next one says return to normal by 11am, then 1pm, then 3pm etc.etc.). Simply guessing at an ETA and advertising that guess to the public should not happen, I would prefer something like "We are working hard to get the trains back to normal running, however at this time we are unsure of how long the delays will last" on the websites with the customers on the trains being given a rough idea of the extent of the delay to their service (ie: "We will be delayed approx. 10mins due to a signalling problem ahead of us").

[Fares_Fair]

Option 4 is NOT a good idea. Incidents such as suicides/attempted suicides etc. should not be reported to the public. Why do you think you very rarely ever see a report of a train-related suicide in the media?

Answer: It is not reported so as to prevent copy-cats, giving people in a situation (suicidal situation) an idea about how to end it all quickly. That is something we should most certainly NOT be promoting.

I note your point Petey3801.
This whole area of debate has come under question as to whether these very sad situations should be publicised at all. Personally I couldn't think of a worse way to go, there is always a chance of being terribly maimed and surviving.
Current opinion is not to do so for the reasons you specify.
Having said that, I understand that there are many situations like this occurring on the rail network. It's no secret.

What you say is certainly valid - but that is not the purpose of this Poll.
Thank you for your response.

I have edited that line to prevent controversy, it now reads
and this may include stabbing/accident at Example Station.

[somebody]

I voted option 2, but I am thinking things along the line of:
"Signal fault"
"Track fault"
"Red signal"
"Level crossing accident" - I don't think they need to spell out that one
"Medical incident"

And reserve "Police incident" for suicides, assaults etc.

Anecdotal evidence I am hearing is that assaults are becoming more common on the rail system.  Or maybe just we are hearing about it more.  More passengers from more frequency would be more safety in numbers.

[Stillwater]

Why the great desire to know the nature of the 'incident' or 'fault'?  I don't need to know the issue is one related to police activity.  What I want to know is (1) there is a problem, and (2) the consequences - delays etc, (3) the length of the delay and (4) information of alternatives, such as buses.

I suspect QR would want to tell us that the problem is 'not their fault', hence the reference to a 'police incident' (as opposed to a QR one).

I would settle for two levels of disruption notices -- an operational problem and a non-operational problem.

It is not as though, having been informed that the problem is a 'signal fault' or a 'police incident' that any of us think we have the technical or medical training to race along the track and help out.  A fault is a fault is a fault, or incident.

The curious nature of people in this forum would demand a fuller explanation, but it is not so for the greater majority of the travelling public.

[HappyTrainGuy]

This would be better suited here rather than in the inturruption thread.

@ Fairs_Fair and ozbob.

I just read my post again and I realised the mistake that I made. My post implied that passengers should only be aware of a delay. What I meant to imply was in regards to one of Fairs_Fair posts earlier that passengers don't need to know the full detail of the incident ie it should be left as a police incident rather than announce suicides, attempted suicides, fights, assults, stabbings, sexual assults, attempted murder, bomb threats and hoaxes, robberies, unruly passengers, vandalism etc. If someone attempting self harm on a train could be misinterpreted as a vicious act in where a passenger was violently stabbed in the neck and repeatedly in the stomach infront of passengers and published by the media before an ambulance was even at the scene what could be relayed between passengers if one of the bomb threats was publicly announced. Announcing the full details could distress passengers, could create a panic and could inspire copy cats.

How should the incident where someone vandalising QR property almost died have been announced. "Sorry for the delay passengers but someone painting art on QR property has been seriously electrocuted after going near overhead lines. Since the overhead lines aren't energised there's no power for the trains to run". As much as passengers want to know everything its best for them not to know the full details. I think not long after that incident something similar happened on another line but during the hours of non operation.

[Fares_Fair]

Stillwater, the rationale is simple.

One implies an event outside the control of QR (e.g. police incident) and I do not hold QR accountable for it.
These types are delays are not to be attributed to QR.
These types are delays are directly attributable to the clowns who e.g. go through, and often wreck, boom gates.
The drivers are the one's responsible and the Government should hold them more accountable by imposing more prohibitive fines to deter offenders.

However if the event is e.g. signal problems, then it is entirely within the control of QR (maintenance) and it is appropriate to hold them accountable for these types of delays.

That is my opinion.
That is why I personally want to know the details so I can make an informed decision on pursuit of the issues that create the problems.

These announcements should also be made at Station platforms or bus interchanges or ferry terminals.

As an aside, it would be interesting to know if personality types is a reason for our various response preferences here, e.g. a 'details' person over a 'big picture' person.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

PS. Please scroll to the top of this page and have your say in the Poll if you haven't already done so.

[HappyTrainGuy]

But that's the problem. QR don't always know all the problems until they have someone there to check it out. There's been times where wildlife have tripped high voltage circuit breakers on the NCL and QR have listed it as a track fault. A couple years ago a snake kept tripping the Bald Hills substation over 4 hours. Only found the problem when they found the fried snake.

[colinw]

I can relate to that one.  About 12 years ago I was working on a SCADA (Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition) project for a power distribution authority. A carpet snake got into one of our equipment cubicles on the test floor at our Brisbane facility, and caused all manner of chaos.

[Stillwater]

I am more interested in what is being done in response to the 'problem', not so much as the cause.  I want to hear:  'There is a problem, customers, it has these consequences, they will be fixed in so many hours.  In the meantime, this is what's happening to get you where you are going.'

[Golliwog]

I am more interested in what is being done in response to the 'problem', not so much as the cause.  I want to hear:  'There is a problem, customers, it has these consequences, they will be fixed in so many hours.  In the meantime, this is what's happening to get you where you are going.'

But the problem is, they can end up lieing through their teeth. There is very little way of knowing what is actually wrong till someone can get out htere to check, and until you get out and check whats wrong, you have no idea how long it will take. It could be something as simple as flipping a switch, to something much more complex involving the replacement of critical parts.

[Gazza]

Option 4 is NOT a good idea. Incidents such as suicides/attempted suicides etc. should not be reported to the public. Why do you think you very rarely ever see a report of a train-related suicide in the media?

In London they freely say via passenger announcments that there has been a "One under".

[petey3801]

Option 4 is NOT a good idea. Incidents such as suicides/attempted suicides etc. should not be reported to the public. Why do you think you very rarely ever see a report of a train-related suicide in the media?

In London they freely say via passenger announcments that there has been a "One under".

I don't give a flying crap about what they say in London when there is a fatality. There has been research done that quite clearly shows a heavy increase in suicides after one is reported in the media (suicide-by-train that is).

The public do NOT need to know there has been a fatality/serious incident. "Police Incident" is more than sufficient in this situation.

[#Metro]

People may want to know, but do they need to know?
Absolutely not IMHO.

"There is a delay 30 minutes or unspecified time, go and get a bus or a taxi now".

That's all I need to know.

[Gazza]

[#Metro]

Interesting. Have you been to Japan Gazza?

Question: Could something like this pop up on QR PID Information screens? Seems useful.

There have been times where the train has been delayed and it has NOT turned up at the train station I use. And this was after waiting 30 minutes!
You can just tell how FURIOUS I was after spending so much time waiting...

[Fares_Fair]

possibly the answer is "hai."

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

PS. Please scroll to the top of this page and have your say in the Poll if you haven't already done so.

[mufreight]

The facts speak for themselves,
Publicity given to fatalities (suicides) encourages more of the same, from personal experience I can assure all that given the levels of trauma for those involved no train driver or rail worker needs nore of the same.
As a passenger the nuts and bolts of the reason for the delay is of little consequence compared to the probable length of the delay, a simple announcement of a track fault, signaling fault, power outage, police incident is more than adequate with some indication of the possible delay  and what alternative arangements for the continuation of the journey will be avaliable.
More pointed is the need for a far more active approach by authority and train control to initiate actions to move trains and commuters to their destinations.  Running trains on verbal authoritys issued over the train control radio system, rerouting trains to bypass the problem sections, (wrong line running where the lines are not bi-directional), all possible but there appears to be a reluctance to do any of these which were actions readily undertaken in past times without the benefit of the improved? technology now avaliable that can facilitate such options.
A major contributing problem that eccabates these delays are now over the top rail safety protocols that do little if anything to improve safety but are in place to insure management does not become involved in litigation but effectively delays responses by experienced skilled safety concious rail workers to faults, the rectification of which have no safety ramifications.

[#Metro]

We need more grade separation and to incrementally remove level crossings, starting with the worst ones.
This boom gate nonsense is ridiculous. There are already enough things wrong with our train system- it is fast heading towards "THE worst urban rail system anywhere in the developed world" IMHO.

[somebody]

As a passenger the nuts and bolts of the reason for the delay is of little consequence compared to the probable length of the delay, a simple announcement of a track fault, signaling fault, power outage, police incident is more than adequate with some indication of the possible delay  and what alternative arangements for the continuation of the journey will be avaliable.

I'd add "level crossing incident", "bridge strike", and God forbid "(rail) accident".  Concealing the trouble at level crossings makes the public much less likely to be on side with increased penalties for the buffoons who run into boom gates.

[mufreight]

As a passenger the nuts and bolts of the reason for the delay is of little consequence compared to the probable length of the delay, a simple announcement of a track fault, signaling fault, power outage, police incident is more than adequate with some indication of the possible delay  and what alternative arangements for the continuation of the journey will be avaliable.

I'd add "level crossing incident", "bridge strike", and God forbid "(rail) accident".  Concealing the trouble at level crossings makes the public much less likely to be on side with increased penalties for the buffoons who run into boom gates.

The incidence of level crossing incidents and bridge strikes would decrease appreciably if there was a policy of rigerous enforcement, charge the driver of the vehicle involved with negligent and dangerous operation of a motor vehicle and upon conviction then immediately tale legal action for the recovery of full costs, ie the revenue lost, actual damages, costs of provision of alternative services and if a commercial vehicle is involved automatic confiscation of the vehicle.
There is no doubt that the insurance companies will do a scream and only issue policies to motorists or entities involved in such incidents at a hefty premiem which will also prove to be a further deterrent.
A bit hard, perhaps but if the outcome is one life saved, one train crew not put through the trauma of such an incident and thousands of commuters not delayed or inconvenienced as a consequence of the actions some mindless, impatient or incompetent driver then it will be justified.
Better for all that these incompetent drivers have a holiday in jail and or off the roads.  

[Fares_Fair]

Please scroll to the top of this page and have your say in the Poll if you haven't already done so.
Thank you.

Regards,
Fares_Fair.