Beating the Gridlock, on Channel 9, starting now

[somebody]

Like it says.

[ozbob]

I missed this, anyone got a short report on what was covered please?

[somebody]

Basically, they talked about losing the trams, the bridge crossings, and put the boot into the Gold Coast line as being too slow and unattractive.  They mentioned the Toowong-Buranda tunnel as a future plan.

So, largely road spruiking.

[ozbob]

   thanks

[somebody]

Oh, they also wanted a freeway on the Trouts Rd corridor.

[somebody]

At least they implied that removing the trams had been a mistake.

[ozbob]

At least they implied that removing the trams had been a mistake.

[ButFli]

I am wondering if removing trams really did increase congestion though? Trams mean there is less capacity for cars and certainly in Melbourne they seem to cause no end of trouble for cars traveling behind them. Trams would increase the total passenger capacity of a road but reduce the car passenger capacity (if that makes sense).

I mean just look at the bus lanes on Corro drive (or lack of them). They were removed because they caused congestion to cars. Removing them shortened the average peak hour car trip by 90 seconds but increased the average peak hour bus trip by 10 minutes. Total passenger throughput was decreased but there was (slightly) less congestion so it must be good!

My guess is that if we had trams here in Brisbane the car drivers would be lobbying to have them removed. Sad but true.

[ozbob]

I think if trams had remained in Brisbane they would have evolved just as Melbourne trams have, and the road network around them.  Brisbane trams carried more passenger trips in the war and post war years than the entire public transport network (all modes) does today, on a relatively small tram system.

Melbourne copes well with trams, and they carry around 200 million passenger trips each year.

[somebody]

Melbourne copes well with trams, and they carry around 200 million passenger trips each year.

Hate to be hater, but what was it in 1960, when Brisbane trams were carrying around 180m p.a.?

[ozbob]

No idea ..

[#Metro]

I think if trams had remained in Brisbane they would have evolved just as Melbourne trams have, and the road network around them.  Brisbane trams carried more passenger trips in the war and post war years than the entire public transport network (all modes) does today, on a relatively small tram system.

Melbourne copes well with trams, and they carry around 200 million passenger trips each year.

There is an upshot to this. Melbourne tram network is well used but old-school. Trams have moved on to Light Rail- bigger vehicles, wider stop spacing, faster speed, signal priority, low floor vehicles... if LRT ever comes to Brisbane we'll have an opportunity to do it right and proper.

[somebody]

Melbourne tram patronage:
1948-1949 - 266m
1959-1960 - 178m
1969-1970 - 110m
1979-1980 - 99m

2005-2006 - 151m

Source: http://www.ipa.org.au/library/ALLSOP_Transport.pdf

[ozbob]

Thanks, Brisbane dropped right off in the 1960s relative to the war period.  The dawning of the age of the horseless carriage ...

Brisbane patronage patterns in a relative sense followed Melbourne till the end, although Melbourne held up better.  It was actively supported which helps.  This has some more interesting info --> http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2117.0

[Golliwog]

Oh, they also wanted a freeway on the Trouts Rd corridor.

When they were talking about the old freeways to everywhere plan they mentioned at the end that the corridor was still there and it could happen. And it still could, my understanding is there there is a feasibility study (high level, not anything nitty gritty) as to road, rail or both in the corridor, and what sort of usage could be expected for each and from where that usage would be coming.

[O_128]

I would love for channel 9 to actually follow some peak hour drivers to where they are going, I wonder where all the cars are headed considering there is very little CBD parking so all this congestion must be heading somewhere??

[Golliwog]

I would love for channel 9 to actually follow some peak hour drivers to where they are going, I wonder where all the cars are headed considering there is very little CBD parking so all this congestion must be heading somewhere??

Following wouldn't be very efficient. You would need to do a cordon/number plate survey. Which is basically what it sound like, bunch of people/video cameras standing round at key places in the network watching number plates. For example for a highway the most efficient thing to do would be to have survey points on each entrance and exit, once you have paired data you can say number plate 123ABC went from X to Y. Doing one on inner city Brisbane would be bloody expensive and time consuming though. Would certainly give you some interesting data though.

[ozbob]

Trouts Road corridor is going to be used for rail.

[somebody]

Trouts Road corridor is going to be used for rail.

Why so confident?

[ozbob]

I am a believer ... lol  ( :-) )

[mufreight]

The use of the Trouts Road corridor for rail will not preclude any further future use of the corridor for road either for the whole length or in part.
The key will be to provide the optimal rail alignment then any road infrastructure can be built so that it does not compromise that rail alignment.

[#Metro]

I think it should be mandatory that all new road-rail crossings be grade separated from the beginning. Grade separated rail crossings should be looked at as well. Flat junctions are cheap but they come at a long term cost of very restricted timetabling and conflicts. Do this all over the network and you have a recipe for a hideous mess. SIMPLICITY is the key.

The timetable is THE most important thing. Not how sexy the trains/uniforms/muffins/station buildings/internal furnishings are. You need speed, frequency and a good scope of hours.