POLL: What should we put forward to improve the Caboolture line?

[somebody]

I see option 1 as being a mediocre option.  Option 2 is merely an upgrade.  Still has 15 minute frequency all stations to Northgate.

Limited = Bowen Hills, Eagle Junction, Northgate then all stations
Fast = Bowen Hills, Eagle Junction, Northgate, Petrie then all stations to Caboolture

[#Metro]

Thanks for coming up with this Somebody.
I voted for #1 as it is K.I.S.S.

[Arnz]

Changing the Airtrain contract and frequency to allow 15 min Airport service, as well as Airtrain servicing Albion and Wooloowin would maintain a high frequency on the corridor in both off and peak.  

It would also allow Caboolture and Nambour peak trains to take the express pattern of (Bowen Hills to Eagle Junction and Northgate to Petrie (for Caboolture trains) or Northgate to Caboolture (for Nambour trains).  Caboolture and Nambour trains will still have to service Toombul and Nundah.

[somebody]

Changing the Airtrain contract and frequency to allow 15 min Airport service, as well as Airtrain servicing Albion and Wooloowin would maintain a high frequency on the corridor in both off and peak.  

It would also allow Caboolture and Nambour peak trains to take the express pattern of (Bowen Hills to Eagle Junction and Northgate to Petrie (for Caboolture trains) or Northgate to Caboolture (for Nambour trains).  Caboolture and Nambour trains will still have to service Toombul and Nundah.

It is only meaningful to change the Airtrain contract in the peak IMO.  Off peak there is only 2tph, an unsatisfactory service for Albion and Wooloowin.  Perhaps combined with Shorncliffe it could work out, I guess.  I wouldn't expect that Airtrain would be very sympathetic at all to changing off peak, but in peak it could be a different matter as they have market power.  Hip pocket nerve would rule the day, I guess.

If the peak service on Airtrain is changed, I would certainly agree that Petrie/Caboolture/Sunshine Coast trains should not serve Albion and Wooloowin.

Thanks for coming up with this Somebody.
I voted for #1 as it is K.I.S.S.

You understand that this means trains on the mains and suburbans will be arriving at Albion/W/EJ/T/N/N at pretty much exactly the same time when the Shorncliffe trains run?

[Cam]

I voted other.

Extend Bowen Hills-Richlands trains to Petrie (all stations) PLUS 4tph FAST Ipswich to Cabooulture.

[somebody]

I voted other.

Extend Bowen Hills-Richlands trains to Petrie (all stations) PLUS 4tph FAST Ipswich to Cabooulture.

Do you mean by this 2tph Virginia-Lawnton?

[HappyTrainGuy]

I like the second one but leave it Ipswich-Caboolture and Petrie/Richlands (That way you could possibly impliment IPS-CAB to run express Darra to Northgate (With limited stops), Kippa Ring-Redbank all stations (After stabling upgrades at Redbank) and Shorncliffe-Richlands and beyond. Most importantly I'd like to see the Caboolture runner exp Bowen Hills-Eagle Junction-Northgate then all stations Northgate-Caboolture and have the Petrie terminator/Shorncliffe pick up the slack at Nundah, Toombul, Wooloowin and Albion.

But currently the major problem with no Kippa Ring and Redbank stabling is if the Richlands train was rerouted as a Petrie starter/terminator is what to do with the shorncliffe train in the meantime? Shorncliffe-Kuraby maybe? There wouldn't be any problems with routing it as there wouldn't be possible conflicts with it crossing the tracks of other services.

[somebody]

I like the second one but leave it Ipswich-Caboolture and Petrie/Richlands (That way you could possibly impliment IPS-CAB to run express Darra to Northgate (With limited stops), Kippa Ring-Redbank all stations (After stabling upgrades at Redbank) and Shorncliffe-Richlands and beyond. Most importantly I'd like to see the Caboolture runner exp Bowen Hills-Eagle Junction-Northgate then all stations Northgate-Caboolture and have the Petrie terminator/Shorncliffe pick up the slack at Nundah, Toombul, Wooloowin and Albion.

But currently the major problem with no Kippa Ring and Redbank stabling is if the Richlands train was rerouted as a Petrie starter/terminator is what to do with the shorncliffe train in the meantime? Shorncliffe-Kuraby maybe? There wouldn't be any problems with routing it as there wouldn't be possible conflicts with it crossing the tracks of other services.

Firstly, the Caboolture line requires an IMMEDIATE upgrade.  With 4tph to Darra, it is in fact the most urgent upgrade on our network.  There is no point in talking about Kippa-Ring or Redbank stabling.

Secondly, I am looking at what can be done which will attract a minimum of opposition.  If you stick with IPS-CAB but express through Albion, that would mean that timings on the Shorncliffe line would have to change to keep 15 minute frequency at Albion, or beyond Darra.  Why do such a thing?  It attracts opposition.  IPS-CAB is also the longest route on our network, shortening it can only be a good thing.  Option 2 means that only people receiving an upgrade have a retimed service.

[#Metro]

 

There should be a clear result. TL will want to know which proposal(s) should go forward. Are we talking 15 minutes to Caboolture or just to Petrie? What about 15 minutes to Ipswich? I think that should be 15 minutes and that is more immediate than 15 minutes to Caboolture, however I am willing to listen to opposing views.

[somebody]

Are we talking 15 minutes to Caboolture or just to Petrie?

Either.

What about 15 minutes to Ipswich? I think that should be 15 minutes and that is more immediate than 15 minutes to Caboolture, however I am willing to listen to opposing views.

Well, AM peak patronage Wacol-Rosewood in the 2009 survey was 5647.  Dakabin-Caboolture 3903 and 7170 Virginia-Petrie.

Option #2 gives a minor upgrade Dakabin-Caboolture in a faster, but no more frequent service, but a major upgrade Virginia-Petrie.

[Cam]

I voted other.

Extend Bowen Hills-Richlands trains to Petrie (all stations) PLUS 4tph FAST Ipswich to Cabooulture.

Do you mean by this 2tph Virginia-Lawnton?

Ideally, 4tph Richlands to Petrie all stations. Would the current infrastructure support this along with 4tph FAST Ipswich to Caboolture?

[somebody]

I voted other.

Extend Bowen Hills-Richlands trains to Petrie (all stations) PLUS 4tph FAST Ipswich to Cabooulture.

Do you mean by this 2tph Virginia-Lawnton?

Ideally, 4tph Richlands to Petrie all stations. Would the current infrastructure support this along with 4tph FAST Ipswich to Caboolture?

Might be better if the Petrie trains do not serve Albion, Wooloowin, Nundah and Toombul.  That way the FAST trains only gain 7 minutes on the Petrie trains, and none of these trains need to access the middle road which can be left for freight and Sunshine Coast services. I suppose an 11 minute gain would be acceptable.  Either pattern really means Sunshine Coast trains need to pass the Petrie trains using the middle road. Freight also needs to use the middle road.

Maybe we need to quad the section to Lawnton.

I feel, though, that we should put forward a plan that has a reasonable chance of being implemented, perhaps with reference to the other plans.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Your still going to get opposition no matter what and even more so when other projects start to come into play on other networks.

For example how about this.
- Other services? Shorncliffe? Nambour/Cooroy-Gympie services? Peak hour services? Traveltrain services? Moving/shuttling trains? Freight from the South, West and North? Potential impacts on other routes? Potential delayes to other services?
- Level crossings. Will the extra services then impact on other PT and locals. That seriously has to be considered as I remember watching the 335 stuck at the lowered boomgates at Carseldine for about 13-15 minutes while an out of service 6 train car passed, the Cooroy exp, a very slow late running freight from the north and the Caboolture all stations and Ipswich all stations trains all lined up perfectly to create the ultimate delay.
- Locals. Extra train horns and noise.
- Future projects? Kippa Ring, Redbank Stabling/upgrade, duplication/realligning on the North Coast Line, Springfield?
- Can the whole infustructure cope with the extra services. Signaling? Enough trains? Enough staff? Stations? Planned maintainence?

Edit. I should have included the most important thing of all. Cost!

[somebody]

Your still going to get opposition no matter what and even more so when other projects start to come into play on other networks.

Yes, but it seems that in Brisbane, completely unreasonable opposition is listened to.  I am thinking about how to minimise this.

[HappyTrainGuy]

Your still going to get opposition no matter what and even more so when other projects start to come into play on other networks.

Yes, but it seems that in Brisbane, completely unreasonable opposition is listened to.  I am thinking about how to minimise this.

True, true. Personally what I wouldn't mind seeing is on selected weekends between Xam and Xpm or something similar is them (QR with Translink) promoting and trialing running increased/different routes with current routes just to see what potential it could have on the network and to bring up any potential issues, clashes and feedback that there might be in running these services.

One weekend they could trial Ipswich-Caboolture on normal schedule added with Richlands-Petrie 3 car train.
Next weekend they could trial Ipswich-Caboolture on normal schedule added with Ipswich-Roma Street/Caboolture limited express 3 car train.
Another weekend they could trial Ipswich-Caboolture on normal schedule added with Richlands-Caboolture 3 car train.
Another weekend they could trial Ipswich-Caboolture on normal schedule added with Roma Street-Petrie 3 car train.
And so on and so on.

They could do it by running the same schedule as now but with the second train 15 mins later terminating at Bowen Hills/Roma Street/Selected station while displaying a T on the front of the cab/over head displays at stations and only using 3 car trains to reduce running costs compared to a 6 car. Then just exclude them from running services where it would interfer with a freight or traveltrain as its only a trial service

But I never see that happening  

[ozbob]

Media release 13 April 2011

SEQ: Caboolture line off peak upgrade needed now!

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers has called for an immediate upgrade to the off peak service on the Caboolture line.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"A recent poll of RAIL Back on Track members (1) wanted either the Richlands-Bowen Hills trains extended to the Caboolture line or a full solution of a 15 minute frequency to Shorncliffe, a limited stops Petrie service on a 15 minute frequency and a fast service to Caboolture on a 15 minute frequency.  An earlier poll (2) wanted a 15 frequency to Shorncliffe and a 15 minute limited stops Caboolture service."

"RAIL Back On Track has been highlighting the issue of poor train frequency for some years.  The only conceivable difficulty of extending the Richlands trains past Bowen Hills is that increased bus services would need to be provided when track work is done on the Caboolture line.  It would make no difference to the current situation if track work needs to be done on the core Roma St-Bowen Hills part of the network.  It really is very frustrating that easily achievable upgrades are not proceeded with. BUZ has shown the way in that a reliable 15 minute frequency will be patronised (3).

"Similar policies were implemented by Labor in NSW, where only 2 trains per hour reached Campbelltown via East Hills off peak while they then wondered what to do about the congestion on the M5.  These policies helped ensure they reached political oblivion and opposition ... "

References:

1. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5627.0

2. http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4452.0

3. http://www.thredbo-conference-series.org/downloads/thredbo10_papers/thredbo10-themeA-Warren.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[ozbob]

Media release 2 May 2011

SEQ: Core Frequent Network: Call to extend Richlands trains to Petrie

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport passengers suggests trains from Richlands terminating at Bowen Hills during off-peak and weekend train services could be extended to Petrie.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"RAIL Back On Track has long argued that the fastest, cheapest way to improve the public transport system in Brisbane is a targeted, selective boost of services to create a Core Frequent Network covering Brisbane with a network of selective trunk, high-capacity, high-frequency, traffic-prioritised workhorse rail, ferry and bus routes. (1)

"This can be done rapidly with little or no new infrastructure required and modest cost when compared to larger infrastructure projects such as those contained within the SEQ 2031 plan. By installing these trunk routes, it would also enable future moves to a feeder-and-trunk model network that would allow all day high frequency services in the suburbs through a feeder bus connection."

"RAIL Back On Track proposes that Richlands trains ending at Bowen Hills station should continue through to Petrie to create a high frequency line spanning from Darra, through the Brisbane CBD to Petrie. Such an upgrade will directly benefit the Kippa-Ring and Mango Hill area as it will permit the creation of a turn-up-and-go rocket rail bus system that can start working well before any track is laid for the Moreton Bay Rail line. Increased frequency on trains will permit decent frequency on connecting buses and directly stimulate increased patronage. This also allows for a revised Shorncliffe line timetable."

"It is time a better quality, better frequency, better span of hours 'transit product' were offered. We have all been waiting at the bus stop and train stations all over SEQ for too long."

"As RAIL Back On Track has always said, services must be frequent. Bottom line."

Keywords: Core Frequent Network, Frequency, Rail, SEQ

References:

1. Building a Core Frequent Network http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5173.0

2. Saturday train frequency at Darra (image) We are slowly getting there... decent frequency stimulates patronage! http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=5739.msg54173#msg54173

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org