Train Upgrade Zone (TUZ)

[#Metro]

Stopping at Albion and Wooloowin might save, what 2 minutes max? So it is entirely illusory this "express" service, given that travelling to the Airport takes about 20 minutes, that is what, a 1% time saving.

[colinw]

Just so people know where I stand, I think the idea to start the line to Flagstone, even as just a 1 station line to Acacia Ridge is a good one. I see it as the same as Richlands, but on the Beenleigh line. I do see the financial cost of it, and it's not going to be cheap, but in the scheme of things, it won't be massive either. I can see it working nicely too with post CRR operations (eg: Ferny Grove to Acacia Ridge with the remaining Beenleigh line and GC line using the tunnel). But I agree, if the money isn't available then using the siding at Rocklea would be fine, or equally at this stage going to Kuraby and adding 4 minutes to the GC trains.

I'm not a fan of one station branches, unless they allow for a tiered service.  I don't see your suggestion here helping too much with that, I'm afraid.  Also, what are you doing about peak paths over the Merivale bridge?  4tph All to Acacia Ridge + 4tph express Park Rd to Salisbury, then all to Beenleigh.  Seems to be the only reasonable solution I could see, but loadings in the 2009 survey are split ~2200 Dutton Park/Salisbury, ~4700 Coopers Plains/Holmview

The reason I suggested it was because I view Kuraby as a "nothing" location for an intermediate terminus, there is absolutely nothing here to justify a 4TPH service. There reason for Kuraby's existence as an intermediate terminus is purely operational, because historically it was the end of double track and had a wye for turning locomotives, and now is the end of triple line. There is some merit in 4TPH to Sunnybank area, but I note that Altandi, Fruitgrove, etc. are already very well serviced by high frequency bus services which are vastly more popular than the train.

To be useful and actually, 4TPH service needs to go beyond Kuraby to at least Kingston, if not Loganlea, Bethania or Beenleigh.  Kuraby is nowheresville.

On the other hand, Acacia Ridge is a public transport wasteland, but quite a populous one, and in close proximity to suburbs that would benefit from a rail service.  I also see merit in locking in the existence of the branch to Browns Plains & Flagstone, just as the existence of Richlands makes it inevitable that the line will one day continue to Springfield.  Same deal in Perth ... the Thornlie spur is now seeding agitation for a one station extension along the freight corridor to the major growth area of Canning Vale.

Extending an additional 2TPH to Kuraby is more service for an area already richly endowed with public transport.  Extending even 2TPH to Acacia Ridge is a brand new catchment for rail, and one that could potentially short circuit a lot of very indirect cross-suburban bus journeys to access the busway.  The main bus services from Algester, Parkinson, etc. run from right next to a perfectly good railway with no service, cross another railway, and then go another 4km to access a "class A" busway corridor.  And yet those suburbs are a mere 5 minutes from the proposed Acacia Ridge along Beaudesert Road.

[somebody]

Salisbury, Banoon and Sunnybank also require a reasonable frequency.  Arguably, Runcorn and Kuraby.  I wouldn't at all mind the trains competing with the buses a little bit at Altandi and Fruitgrove either. These buses are very busy and getting a few of these pax on to the trains may help reduce the need to add trips.

More importantly, I don't think we should put forward a plan for a one station branch.  It would be seen for what it is as a plan to get the full extension to Greenbank.  If we must lobby for something, we could go for that.  I just see far more pressing needs at present, noticeably CRR.  I'd also like to do something about the Doomben line.  The current situation is unacceptable with that one.

If the current dwelling arrangements at Varsity Lakes/Airport change (looks unlikely at present), that could have an effect on the appropriateness of Kuraby as a terminus.  I'll have to have a look at this.

Stopping at Albion and Wooloowin might save, what 2 minutes max? So it is entirely illusory this "express" service, given that travelling to the Airport takes about 20 minutes, that is what, a 1% time saving.

10%.

Illusory or not, it feels like you are getting something for your money if you get an express service.

[colinw]

Salisbury, Banoon and Sunnybank also require a reasonable frequency.  Arguably, Runcorn and Kuraby.  I wouldn't at all mind the trains competing with the buses a little bit at Altandi and Fruitgrove either. These buses are very busy and getting a few of these pax on to the trains may help reduce the need to add trips.

From my observations I think the busiest stations between Rocklea & Kuraby are Coopers Plains, Banoon, Altandi & Sunnybank.  Salisbury, Fruitgrove & Runcorn are a bit quieter, and Kuraby is very quiet off peak.

More importantly, I don't think we should put forward a plan for a one station branch.  It would be seen for what it is as a plan to get the full extension to Greenbank.  If we must lobby for something, we could go for that.  I just see far more pressing needs at present, noticeably CRR.  I'd also like to do something about the Doomben line.  The current situation is unacceptable with that one.

If the current dwelling arrangements at Varsity Lakes/Airport change (looks unlikely at present), that could have an effect on the appropriateness of Kuraby as a terminus.  I'll have to have a look at this.

Fair enough, but I still think if there is another location in the system where a single station spur would be truly useful it is Acacia Ridge.  But if we assume CRR is proceeding we should be lobbying for Greenbank.

Agree about Doomben.  For now I'd be happy with full extension of all Cleveland line services to Doomben.  Bring it on an equal footing with the rest of the network for frequency & hours of operation.  Longer term a 4TPH operation to Hamilton would be good, although I wonder if that would require more than 4 tracks BH/Albion to EJ, or the Trouts Road corridor to be built, given that we have two flat junctions (Doomben & Airport) within a few hundred metres of each other in that area.

Suitability of Kuraby as a terminus is questionable with the current layout & lack of crossovers between Coopers Plains & Kuraby.  I think it would be hard to turn back 2TPH at Kuraby without some knock on effects.

[#Metro]

Illusory or not, it feels like you are getting something for your money if you get an express service.

Isn't that false advertising?

I wonder, would train paths be freed up if Airtrain was made stop at those 2 stations?

[somebody]

Illusory or not, it feels like you are getting something for your money if you get an express service.

Isn't that false advertising?

I wonder, would train paths be freed up if Airtrain was made stop at those 2 stations?

No, and I don't think so.  Serving those stations would only make paths be more usefully employed.

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Had a look at Kuraby reversing 2tph, and it seems that it won't work out well with current dwelling arrangements at VL & Airport.  It requires these arrangements to change, which really requires 4tph Airport, which seems to not be happening.  Therefore I am supportive of the plan for a shorter service.  Should it run to Rocklea, or maybe go via Tennyson to Corinda?  Main problem with the latter is it won't be continued through peak.

[#Metro]

Thanks. The main thing is to get 4tph. In peak hour, there are extra Beenleigh line trains anyway, so its probably not that a big issue.
Ideally it would be 15 minutes to Beenleigh, but that's not happening any time soon unfortunately and there are infrastructure limitations to this.

[cartoonbirdhaus]

I wouldn't at all mind the trains competing with the buses a little bit at Altandi and Fruitgrove

Rather than seeing them competing with each other, I see them as complementing each other, making transfers between bus and train more attractive (network effect). As for Kuraby, perhaps bus feeders (along Beenleigh Rd to Underwood etc) could make this station a sensible stop for the Gold Coast trains, and the infrastructure upgrades it would need to do this worthwhile? Look at Perth stations such as Murdoch and Warwick.

[#Metro]

I think transfers need to be designed carefully. The walking distance between those stations is difficult, and the Beenleigh line is very slow.
Gold Coast trains come along every 30 minutes, which is terrible frequency to interchange into.