Poll: New Sunshine Coast Timetable including Nambour terminations

[somebody]

Thinking about the Nambour line, I think what is needed is a clockface hourly frequency as far Landsborough, with half these trains continuing to Nambour or maybe further and the other half meeting buses at Landsborough.  Best I can come up with is this:

Northgate	+0:00	+1:00
Petrie	+0:14	+1:14
Beerburrum	+0:42	+1:42
Landsborough	+1:02	+2:02
Nambour	+1:29
Cooroy	+1:56
-
Cooroy	+2:36
Nambour	+2:58
Landsborough	+3:26	+2:26
Beerburrum	+3:47	+2:47
Petrie	+4:14	+3:13
Northgate	+4:30	+3:30

You might as well extend to Cooroy as otherwise you'd be waiting at Nambour for over an hour.

Assumptions: 2 tracks at Cooroy so standing on the platform doesn't block freight
No issues with track capacity south of Northgate
Sunshine Coast trains using the middle road Northgate-Lawnton - freight services can fit around this

Pros:
Increased frequency beyond Nambour
Increased rail frequency Caboolutre-Landsborough
Clockface timetable
Increased freight paths due to no passenger trains crossing each other
Increased reliability for the same reason

Cons:
Reduced rail frequency north of Landsborough
Long dwell times are expensive

[mufreight]

Sorry to pr%%k you balloon but unfortunately the NCL has to cater for far more than just commuter services and without improvements in the infrastructure the States transport system overall can not fit what you are proposing in.

[somebody]

Sorry to pr%%k you balloon but unfortunately the NCL has to cater for far more than just commuter services and without improvements in the infrastructure the States transport system overall can not fit what you are proposing in.

Just realised that the Beerburrum-Landsborough single track has two trains on it!  Doh!  Here's what I was about to say: 

"Do you mean because of capacity between Beerburrum & Landsborough?  The proposed timetable has a train every 90 minutes in both directions with a cross at Beerwah.  If a northbound freight is behind a Sunshine Coast train it will likely have to wait at Beerburrum for the southbound train to exit the single track, unless it can reach Glass House Mountains which I would doubt, also assuming that the loop there is long enough.  Probably it would have a lot of trouble reaching Nambour by the time the southbound train needs to start heading south (it's a 21 minute turnaround).  This means the freighter must wait in a loop somewhere.

Under my proposal the northbound freighter can chase the Cooroy train so long as it isn't more than 24 minutes behind it at Landsborough.  If it does fall behind, it needs to wait somewhere."

Maybe we should delete this thread, but it is an interesting how the constraints combine to prevent even an hourly service to Landsborough.  I can't make it work!  We need either a quad to Lawnton or duplication somewhere between Beerburrum & Landsborough.

[#Metro]

I can't see how this bottleneck Somebody is good for Queensland.
It is saving pennies and losing pounds in the process. Coal and freight no doubt use the line as well as passenger services.

It doesn't make sense.

[Fares_Fair]

Sorry to pr%%k you balloon but unfortunately the NCL has to cater for far more than just commuter services and without improvements in the infrastructure the States transport system overall can not fit what you are proposing in.

Just realised that the Beerburrum-Landsborough single track has two trains on it!  Doh!  Here's what I was about to say: 

"Do you mean because of capacity between Beerburrum & Landsborough?  The proposed timetable has a train every 90 minutes in both directions with a cross at Beerwah.  If a northbound freight is behind a Sunshine Coast train it will likely have to wait at Beerburrum for the southbound train to exit the single track, unless it can reach Glass House Mountains which I would doubt, also assuming that the loop there is long enough.  Probably it would have a lot of trouble reaching Nambour by the time the southbound train needs to start heading south (it's a 21 minute turnaround).  This means the freighter must wait in a loop somewhere.

Under my proposal the northbound freighter can chase the Cooroy train so long as it isn't more than 24 minutes behind it at Landsborough.  If it does fall behind, it needs to wait somewhere."

Maybe we should delete this thread, but it is an interesting how the constraints combine to prevent even an hourly service to Landsborough.  I can't make it work!  We need either a quad to Lawnton or duplication somewhere between Beerburrum & Landsborough.

Bingo !

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[#Metro]

How can people even think about budget surpluses when there is infrastructure falling apart and not fit for future growth...  :conf

[somebody]

To clarify my previous comments, I can't make it work without needing to do a cross at Glass House Mountains or Beerwah.  Something I was trying quite hard to avoid, as these things are an anachronism for a line such as the Sunshine Coast.

[mufreight]

To clarify my previous comments, I can't make it work without needing to do a cross at Glass House Mountains or Beerwah.  Something I was trying quite hard to avoid, as these things are an anachronism for a line such as the Sunshine Coast.

To repeat, you need infrastructure to be able to provide services and the fact remains that the single track Beerburrum to Nambour section imposes constraints on not only that section but the entire commuter network, the priority remains upgrading that single line infrastructure to enable the provision of a higher level of service, untill that is done it remains fact that the line is at saturation point in terms of capacity and tweeking the system might resolve problems with one service there but at what price for the rest of the system.
Shifting the deck chairs on the Titanic might have given a few a better view but the ship inevitably sank, similar story here.
   

[somebody]

FWIW a 45 minute evolution IS achievable, so long as half the trains extend beyond Landsborough.

Problem with this is that 2 trains every 45 minutes on a 20 minute single track section makes it somewhat difficult for freight to get through.

[#Metro]

I think this one really just one solution: do the project.
Sunshine Coast line is the dog leg of the system, just fix it.

[Fares_Fair]

 

Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

Are crossing locations at Glass House Mountains and Beewah long enough for the longest freight trains on the line?

[somebody]

I think this one really just one solution: do the project.
Sunshine Coast line is the dog leg of the system, just fix it.

What about in the meantime?  Are you going to stick with the old timetable or the officially proposed timetable or something else?

[Fares_Fair]

I understand that the timetable is currently being rewritten to provide hourly services to the Sunshine Coast.
Will have to wait and see what eventuates.
We need more services than what was first proposed in the draft.
Enough has been said about it's impacts upon us in plenty of my posts, and others.

We need the duplication to occur as the line is at peak capacity - they literally cannot provide more services on a single piece of track. A bottleneck cannot be bypassed.

We need extended passing sectors on the new alignment at the bare minimum so that appropriate services can be provided to the Sunshine Coast.
As at June 2009 (source ABS) we had 63% of the Gold Coast population but not the same level of services !

This is heading towards a crisis for the Sunshine Coast to Brisbane commute.
I don't say that lightly, unless more services are provided and infrastructure is improved.
That's what it will be - another crisis.


Regards,
Fares_Fair.

[somebody]

I understand that the timetable is currently being rewritten to provide hourly services to the Sunshine Coast.

Really?  Where'd you hear that?  Will they run through?

Seems that hourly through services could only be provided with a cross at either Beerwah or Glass House Mtns.  Not ideal.  But it seems to be the best compromise at present.  Then, if all services need to extend to Nambour there needs to be another cross.  I don't think there is anywhere north of Landsborough with two platforms until Nambour, so a train needs to reverse into the platform, or similar.  That's even worse than the cross between Beerburrum and Landsborough.

[somebody]

What did we actually get out of the Beerburrum duplication?  The way I read the draft timetable, hardly any trains actually pass each other between Caboolture and Beerburrum.  Only a couple of counter peak services which may be able to be re-timed.

If the duplication had extended to Glass House Mountains, that would allow an hourly timetable in the off peak to Landsborough without a precision cross.

[mufreight]

As a stopgap it would be possible to provide two of the intermediate stations with a "temporary" platform on the loop to enable trains to cross there without having to do the QR shuffle, but it costs to build these "temporary" platforms and waiting for an opposing movement extends transit times and then there is the ongoing problem of freight services too long for the existing crossing loops.
The other problem that arises is that at the locations where these temporary platforms would need to be constructed the location of the "temporary" platforms would be on the proposed alignment of the realigned tracks and station when the realignment and duplication works are carried out hence the previous suggestion that the new stations at these locations be constructed on the new alignment with a section of duplication exceeding the length needed with a margin to allow the longest freight services to cross.
Not the most desireable option but an improvement on the present situation that would/could buy some time.

[Stillwater]

While the freight logistics sector in other states enjoys the economies of scale from long trains and rail crossing loops 1500 metres long, freight trains on the Sunshine Coast and North Coast lines are less than half that, governed by the length of the short crossing loop at Palmwoods (approximately 670m-680m).  Because of the importance of these lines to the Queensland economy, the state suffers. 

Passing loops 1500m long would allow for two 'normal' Queensland freight trains to be consolidated into one, doing away with the need for one crew, but also requiring fewer train paths for freight trains.

Of course, it no longer makes sense to lengthen passing loops on the existing inadequate alignment, which means trains other than tilt trains have to operate at 50 kph on some sections.  It makes better sense to bite the bullet and construct passing opportunities on the proposed new alignment - work that the government has postponed for at least 15 years.

Where is the logic in all of this?

[BrizCommuter]

I understand that the timetable is currently being rewritten to provide hourly services to the Sunshine Coast.

Really?
Is that with free ice cream vending machines on board as well?*

*Note cynicism.

[colinw]

Muffins surely.

Hourly timetable - maybe.  But hourly what? 

[Fares_Fair]

I understand that the timetable is currently being rewritten to provide hourly services to the Sunshine Coast.

Really?
Is that with free ice cream vending machines on board as well?*

*Note cynicism.

Hello All,

We can only hope Brizcommuter, our Air Con on our afternoon services (IMU 8106 and IMU 8107) has been broken down every day this last week on carriage 3. Good to know we are paying 15% more for less.

I went back to my source and I retract my statement about hourly services, I believe it is possible to achieve but may not be happening with the revised timetable for the Sunshine Coast.

Regards,
Fares-Fair