Fair fare campaign - Fair fares to Go wanted by all!

[ozbob]

RAIL Back On Track supports the Go Card. 

The improvements in efficiency (quicker loading times), accurate loading data, cost savings as cash handling and tickets sales are reduced are well worth supporting.  But not at a cost that results in excessive fare rises for public transport commuters. 

We do not support the present fare structure on the Go Card.

The present fare structure, known as the frequent user (FU) scheme has a lot of impacts on many commuters.

These impacts have been demonstrated in this forum and by others elsewhere.

Some of the commuters who will be adversely impacted are:

• school children on the school buses
• weekly ticket and monthly ticket users
• seasonal rail pass users
• former ten trip ticket users
• daily multiple trip users
• off peak travellers
• and Monday to Friday commuters!

It is important to contact our political representatives to voice your concern.
For contact information for Queensland Members of Parliament click here

Contact Translink to express your dissatisfaction with the fare structure on the card. Click here!

Please read the information available in this forum and I think you will agree that something needs to be done to make the fares equitable.

Collectively we might be able to get fair fares for all!

Thanks.

Ozbob

[Fares_Fair]

P.S.

I have received information from a source within QR that the price of paper tickets are going to have "good" increases come this July. i.e. rises significantly more than inflation.
This, I can only assume, is to push us onto the GoCard.

Just as the 'Say No to GoCard' committee have predicted will occur.
Remember you heard it here first.

[ozbob]

I have suggested this elsewhere as well.  See --> http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9708&start=1025#p321005

It is all part of a plan to phase out periodicals is my guess.

This would in part explain the lack of any action by Government and Translink to the feedback re fare costs firstly on the pilot and of late from the wider community.

I wonder what the further options are that Minister has referred to in a number of statements?

My guess is these options are nothing to do with the fares at all, but shonky agreements to allow Go Card users to purchase cream puffs and roast chicken rolls at 7 Eleven stores and the like.  Maybe we might be able to use our Go Cards to put on lotto at the Supanews agencies and escape the madness ....  LOL

Good work Fares_Fair!

Cheers
Ozbob

[Derwan]

I have suggested this elsewhere as well.

As have I.  (Can't find the post.)

It's either the case that TL can't afford to offer realistic discounts to encourage uptake of the Go Card - or they do not want a mass uptake until the bugs are ironed out.

How they introduce the different charges between paper tickets and Go Card will be very important.  If they just increase the cost of paper tickets, there will be an uproar.

Instead, I think we'll see an increase across the board coinciding with the introduction of better FU schemes for the Go Card.  Wolf in sheep's clothing so-to-speak.

[Fares_Fair]

G'day Bob,

Refer Courier-Mail today ( 3rd March, 2008 ).
Saw your letter to the Editor in todays edition.
Well done - got the message across succinctly.
Thank you.     

Kind Regards,
Fares_Fare

[Skeetbris]

I have been told by a Translink representitive that they are working on introducing the types of tickets such as off peak savers and daily, etc. to come. When that is he couldn't be more specific. I have written to translink several times and eventually received a response.Writing to Brisbane City Council about their poor bus services out here, that I have had with the long, long wait times for a 220and the councillors play pass the buck but the Lord Mayor actually wrote to me twice to apologise for a problem I had with a bus that didn't stop to pick up several passengers wanting to get on, even though it was only half full. If you want to see the letters Bob I'll mail them toyou. I have longbeen a thorn in their side! Last time Campbell Newman (or whoever wrote it,Campbell signed it) actually gave meafreepass touse on the buses for one day...whooppee. I guess it is the spirit that the gesture is made in that really counts!

[ozbob]

Hi Skeetbris!

Thanks for the feedback. I have been told similar as well.  The new fares are needed real quick as the card is not doing to well as it is.

I have found Cr Newman does respond to our correspondence too. 

The are occasions, albeit rare, but I understand that sometimes bus control directs certain buses to bypass even though they may not be full.  It is rare, but happens when buses are right behind timetable and further services will be seriously disrupted if they don't make up some time.  One problem causing a chain reaction down the line.  From the bus commuter perspective, hard to understand at the time.  If that happens they usually try to get a follow up bus though to come through asap.  No need for the letters thanks at this time.

I like free tickets    Might be time for another free Go weekend hey?  LOL

Cheers
Ozbob

[Skeetbris]

I have had a Go-card for a little over a month now, I love the convenience of being able to just hop on a bus or walk onto/off a rail station without having to fiddle around with loose change! The concept itself is a great way to travel but the cost is certainly more overall. The cost of the convenience is quite a bit more than the paper tickets I usually buy, somewhere in the vicinity of 30% overall dearer. As I don't use P/T everyday of the week I still haven't been able to get to six trips because the transfer rules which work well in the favour of commuters, if you don't have to wait too long between the transfers. But I think perhaps the transfer rules should be made longer so as to allow for people who just want to go and stop at one place then go on to another. So I have to say that some trips are considerably dearer though some trips have proven to be cheaper and some are about the same!

Anyway when I get the letter from Translink they have told me is coming I'll pass on the relevant information about what they have to say about the list of concerns people have;
    * school children on the school buses
    * weekly ticket and monthly ticket users
    * seasonal rail pass users
    * former ten trip ticket users
    * daily multiple trip users
    * off peak travellers
    * and Monday to Friday commuters!

I understand about the buses as I used them extensively in Sydney and they are a poor substitute for real P/T and should only be used to feed the rail (both heavy and light) system rather than this bus centric policy that has been dominant since they ripped up the tramways! I can't believe they did it a decade after Sydney knew it was the wrong thing to do! On that score will we ever see a light rail system in Brisbane or is it just one of those things politicians roll out near an election when they need the votes?

[mufreight]

Skeetbris has hit the nail on the head regarding the fare structure on the Go Card
One radical solution would be to drop the fares per zone by 5% for up to 10 zones and by 10% for trips over 10 zones
This would remove the imbalance that currently exists for more casual users and short multiple trip users
It would create a greater uptake,
Coupled with a stepped cap based upon the number of trips over one month extending to two and then to three months would replace the previous 10 trip, weekly or other periodical tickets.
A win for all the commuter, Translink and the Government as by making the system more attractive it would attract more commuters out of their cars to Public Transport.
The only fault with this proposal is that Public Transport can not cope at present and a 15% to 20% increase in patronage would be beyond the capacity of the existing infrastructure, both road and rail no matter how many new buses and trains they provide.
GRIDLOCK is GRIDLOCK no matter how you look at it.
Make this suggestion to your local Member and publish his/her response.
It would simplify the fare structure and as a consequence reduce the operating cost to Translink, the savings thus accrued would ofset the reduction in revenue

[banyoboy]

How is it that Translink get your money in their bank account before you travel, they don't have to pay for the paper ticket, they don't have to pay a ticket seller, yet they want to charge you the same amount as a normal ticket.  Go card should attract a discount on every single fare.

[K_Nikora]

I don't mean to look negatively on your comment Banyoboy, but your statement seems highly unjust. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to champion their cause, I just would rather see a well informed opinion rather than a random rant. What about people who buy their tickets from an avvm? Using your logic, should they then pay less than those who buy from a tot? Go card still has to pay for the software and the people involved in that area of things.
Just because it's electronic, doesn't mean it costs less to produce!

[ozbob]

Welcome K_Nikora!

Most smart card PT ticketing systems do operate at a significant discount to cash fares eg. Smartrider Perth, Oyster card London.  This does reflect to some extent the long term savings in minimised cash handling and direct ticket sales. As you point out there are costs for hardware and computer systems but in time the longer term savings account for that.

The other big benefit is the improved loading efficiency particularly for buses and ferries. This is turn improves timetable efficiency and so forth and also leads to savings as it maximises the utility of the transport asset.

Personally I am very disappointed with the roll-out of the go card so far.  I am long past the standard response 'teething issues'.  I am a strong supporter of the go card, it is a pity that the fare structure still does not act as an incentive for uptake.  The convenience and online management aspect are really great, we just have to try to convince the powers to be that it is the community's and the authorities best interests to fix it so that it is the ticket of choice.

I have a gut feeling that more fare options will be forth coming.  The time problem at the moment will be sorted soon I trust.  As users and operators increase familiarity I am sure it will become very routine.
This has been the experience in other places, the first year or so has been a bit rocky too.

The Government and Translink I am sure realises that the early adopters are  pioneers, which in part was recognised with the Free Easter Travel promotion.

I am optimistic for the future of the Go card.

Cheers
Ozbob

[Skeetbris]

Fair fares would be fine if the system actually worked BUT IT ISNT
15-Apr-08 08:36:10 PM Touch Off Carindale Shopping Centre - Platform F [BT006298] -1.40 * 
15-Apr-08 08:15:41 PM Touch On UQ Lakes - Zone C [BT001878]     
15-Apr-08 05:16:38 PM Touch Off UQ Lakes - Zone C [BT001878]     
15-Apr-08 05:07:35 PM Touch On Transfer 'Woolloongabba' Busway Station [BT010812]     
15-Apr-08 04:54:36 PM Touch Off Cannon Hill Shopping Centre - Zone A [BT005929] -1.40 * 
15-Apr-08 04:51:19 PM Touch Off 'Woolloongabba' Busway Station [BT010812] -1.40 * 
15-Apr-08 04:27:21 PM Touch On Transfer Cannon Hill Shopping Centre - Zone B [BT005931]-3     
15-Apr-08 04:24:26 PM Touch On 'Sibley Road' Wynnum Road [BT006201]     
12-Apr-08 06:58:04 PM Touch Off 'Norman Park' Bennetts Road [BT002648] -1.60 * 
12-Apr-08 06:24:33 PM Touch On 'Preston Road' Preston Rd [BT010650]     
10-Apr-08 02:39:16 PM Touch Off Cannon Hill Shopping Centre - Zone D [BT005936] -1.40 *  SHOULD BE A TRANSFER!
10-Apr-08 02:18:54 PM Touch On 'South Bank' Busway Station [BT010807]     
10-Apr-08 02:04:29 PM Touch Off 'Wynnum Golf' Wynnum Road [BT006137] -1.40 *  SHOULD BE A TRANSFER
10-Apr-08 12:56:39 PM Touch Off South Bank     
10-Apr-08 12:39:30 PM Touch On Transfer Cannon Hill Shopping Centre - Zone D [BT005936]     
10-Apr-08 12:04:16 PM Touch On Transfer Brunswick Street     
10-Apr-08 11:37:11 AM Touch Off Ballow Street - Zone C [BT000796]     
10-Apr-08 11:26:27 AM Touch On Transfer 'Cultural Centre' Busway Station IB [BT010802]     
10-Apr-08 11:11:48 AM Touch Off 'Cultural Centre' Busway Station IB [BT010802] -1.80 *  SHOULD BE A TRANSFER!
10-Apr-08 10:19:42 AM Touch On 'Wynnum Golf' Wynnum Road [BT006138]     
08-Apr-08 09:56:38 PM Touch Off 'Wynnum Golf' Wynnum Road [BT006137] -0.40 * 
08-Apr-08 09:17:30 PM Touch On Transfer 'Woolloongabba' Busway Station [BT010811]     
08-Apr-08 08:24:48 PM Touch Off 'Woolloongabba' Busway Station [BT010811] -1.20 * 
08-Apr-08 08:16:19 PM Touch On UQ Lakes - Zone C [BT001878]     
08-Apr-08 04:48:03 PM Touch Off UQ Lakes - Zone C [BT001878]     
08-Apr-08 04:39:44 PM Touch On Transfer 'Woolloongabba' Busway Station [BT010812]     
08-Apr-08 04:27:53 PM Touch Off 'Woolloongabba' Busway Station [BT010812] -1.60 *  SHOULD BE A TRANSFER!
08-Apr-08 03:40:34 PM Touch On 'Wynnum Golf' Wynnum Road [BT006138]     
08-Apr-08 03:40:34 PM Top Up 'Wynnum Golf' Wynnum Road [BT006138] 20.00   
03-Apr-08 03:02:21 PM Touch Off 'Wynnum Golf' Wynnum Road [BT006137] -1.40 * SHOULD BE A TRANSFER!
03-Apr-08 02:34:38 PM Touch On Cannon Hill Shopping Centre - Zone D [BT005936]     
03-Apr-08 02:34:38 PM Touch Off Cannon Hill Shopping Centre - Zone D [BT005936] -1.50 * 

THESE ARE THE ONES I CAN REMEMBER THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A TRANSFER BUT WEREN'T EITHER BECUASE THE TIMES ARE SET WRONG ON THE BUS or the "smartcard! ha! won't recognise the transfer. Another problem I have is the driver clocking off the system BEFORE I get off the bus. It shouldn't be this difficult but it is made all the harder by Translink not being honest about the problems with the readers on buses not working because they can't be f***** bothered to fix a known problem that is costing bus passengers lots in extra fares that is making this card a bloody liability and not the way it ought to be! If these fools who aren't doing their jobs properly, starting right at the top with the minister for transport! Try getting your money back what a joke I sure hope they have the ability to sort the problem before everyone just gives upon this expensive way to travel, cheaper fares can't come quick enough for me as I am sick of being ripped off by these thieves

[ozbob]

Thanks Skeetbris for the detailed transaction history. 

It again confirms the issues that we (RAIL Back On Track) has been trying to alert the wider community too.  We have had some support from radio 612 ABC Brisbane and the Brisbane mX newspaper in getting the message out and I am grateful for that. Still work to be done.

I am dismayed that Translink and the Minister have FAILED to alert the go card user community of the problem with the time.  Many many users have suffered excess fares and penalties.  It is an abrogation of their duty of care and responsibility to the public transport community IMHO.

Please write to your local MP expressing your concerns too. 

Cheers
Ozbob

[mch]

A proposal sent to the premier and passed to the Minister for Transport has suggested that the following should be adopted:

Go Card standard pricing should be 60% of paper ticket price
(Currently, monthly ticket best discount price is 69 %.)

If you have a balance of $30 or more, a further 10 % discount should apply which would equate to 50 % of current ticket price.

I feel this is a suitable structure, given the ticket selling cost savings that would be realised.
Ticket sellers could then be used to improve service to the public by assisting travellers with enquiries etc.

If you feel this is a good option, contact your local member and suggest this be adopted

[Astro]

I for one will be paying more using a go card as I use my weekly more than 10 times a week. If somone can explain how a go card in this case is cheaper please do. I have also noticed Mr Dow has not said anything about the removal of weekly/monthly tickets or the fare increase. If he has, again please let me know. Unless these matters are dealt with, I for one will be going back to driving to/from work as there is no incentive for me to use a go card.

[Paul.Zenon]

[O_128]

please tell me you didnt make this.

first of all you are comparing a 12 month ticket with 12x1 month tickets. try using the same tickets and the comaprison will be lower. Also did you even bother to see how much a go card will cost?

[david]

Hate to be rude, but have you tried moving closer to Brisbane if you can't afford it? Alternatively, have you tried looking for a new job closer to where you live? Although $5000 seems like a lot to spend on trains, the Gold Coast services do cost a heck of a lot more to run...

[ozbob]

Astro,  we have been pushing for capping on the go card for 3 years, and are still pushing hard.

Latest correspondence to all outlets:

17th October 2009

Greetings,

A most significant change for public transport in south-east Queensland has been announced this week.

Some  personal thoughts:

Presently only 3 to 5% of commuters travel more than 10 times per week (source Minister of Transport staff information from TransLink).  With the go card incentives more may travel > 10 trips in the future.

The new go card fares are set at the 2007 paper cost.  So relative to that there is essentially no increase.  Yes there is an increase with respect what we have been paying the last couple of years but I guess that has been a bonus discount in a failed attempt to drive go card uptake.  So I am comfortable with the pricing of the new go card fares.  The majority of people their costs are no different to 2007.  The high use users will be paying more, but not overly excessive as the 50% discount will kick in.

Paper tickets are facing a huge cost rise of course.  This is clearly to drive users to go card.  That in itself is not a bad thing as the cost and inefficiency of the duplicate ticketing systems needs to be addressed.  

I think the failure to include some form of block travel on the go card is a mistake, particularly in view of the phase out of the paper seasonal ticketing.  By block travel I mean periodical ticketing, eg.  monthly block travel.  This may well be added later?

As the fares will be on January 4 2010 I am comfortable with that. BUT not happy with the projected 15% per annum fare increase as it stands. The government is setting themselves up for considerable flack as well.  It is possible that these projected increases are part ambit.   In any case there will be massive pressure to on public transport to perform as consumers are paying more they will want and rightly expect much improved services, frequency and coverage.

The go card environment needs to be radically improved.  Some things for consideration include much improved administrative support, online forms for refund of fixed fares etc., stepped up education and help booths for new users.  An amnesty period for new users would be a good idea, particularly if the fixed fares are increased (presently $3 bus/ferry, $5 rail, remember planned to be $5 bus/ferry $10 rail - concession half of those) this will be essential or again lots of grief in the streets.   More readers at rail stations is necessary to cope with the peak (mainly outbound) surges.  There will be considerable flack from commuters I expect if this is not done.  (See thread here --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2882.0).

Best wishes
Robert

RAIL Back On Track Admin wrote:
> Media Release 15 October 2009
>
> SEQ:  Go card is going!
>
> RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has welcomed the new fare strategy for the go card (1).
>
> Robert Dow, spokesperson for RAIL Back On Track said:
>
> "The introduction of off peak discounts for the go card is a welcome move."
>
> "There have been significant improvements in public transport overall and these improvements do cost.  Fares are to be increased but there are commitments for additional services. Under the new fare structure go card fares will be equivalent to the 2007 paper ticket cost.  Paper tickets will significantly dearer than for the equivalent go card travel under the new fare strategy."
>
> "Cost of public transport is an important factor but frequent accessible services is what will drive change."
>
> "We welcome the go card 'give away' initiative to further encourage commuters to make the change."
>
> "The go card has had a long introduction and clearly has now reached the point to become the ticketing option for public transport in south-east Queensland.  The overall gains for improved efficiency for the entire public transport network are significant."
>
> "We await more detail of the fare strategy but clearly there is now a strong incentive for users to make the change from paper to go card."
>
> Reference:
>
> 1.  http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26211617-952,00.html
>
> Contact:
>
> Robert Dow
> Administration
> 0412255927
> admin@backontrack.org
> RAIL Back On Track http://backontrack.org
> 54 Aberdare St
> Darra Qld  4076
>
> For all RAIL Back On Track Media Releases please visit http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?board=19.0

Also this from Brisbanetimes (see this thread --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2877.msg14960#msg14960 )

Commuter lobby group Rail Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said a lack of capped weekly or monthly tickets would make motorists of some existing commuters.

"Without Go Card capping the government is probably going to force users of the existing system back onto the road," Mr Dow said.

But he welcomed the introduction of off-peak Go Card fares and said widespread uptake of the electronic ticket would improve travel times across the bus network.

"People will see a marked improvement in the efficiency of the network, once everyone is using a Go Card. They will be able to tweak the timetables a lot better, because they will have real time-loading information and know exactly when passengers are travelling and where."

Listen to this interview on 612 ABC Brisbane (note this was early morning before full details known).

--> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2877.msg15057#msg15057

I was misquoted in the QT Article.  I actually said changes in the  Off Peak fare structure were welcome .. and pointed out the cost impacts but that was not published.

http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=2877.msg15046#msg15046

But the founder of commuter action group Rail Back on Track, Robert Dow, said the changes in fare structure were a good move.

?The Government has made a promise that the increased revenue will go towards improving transport services,? Mr Dow said.

?I hope they keep that promise. I suspect that if they don't, they will lose the next election.?

==========

The fact that we now will have off peak and no doubt early bird discounts as well when the system is capable on the go card is a big improvement.   The final piece is capping.

[ozbob]

Go card for 12 months, 5 days per week (10 trips per week)  zone 15 =  $90 x 4 x 12 = $4320 if you travelled every work day, 5 days per week for 52 weeks, for not likely due to holidays etc. anyway.  It is an increase on the QR 12 monthly ticket no doubt.  But certainly is not a 70% increase. It is $1330 more than the present QR yearly. There is no likelihood of the specific operator tickets being retained. 

The fact is folks, paper is going.

I am taking a constructive position to try to get better products on the go card including the equivalent periodical tickets (capping).  See here for Oyster card caps  --> http://oystercard.110mb.com/fares.htm

Now, this is what is needed Paul.

Cheers
Bob 

[ozbob]

Also I am of the view that if block travel (monthly, yearly at least)  is not brought in by the present Government, I am pretty sure an Opposition that wanted to be elected would  make it part of their election policy.  Stand by ...

[O_128]

Hate to be rude, but have you tried moving closer to Brisbane if you can't afford it? Alternatively, have you tried looking for a new job closer to where you live? Although $5000 seems like a lot to spend on trains, the Gold Coast services do cost a heck of a lot more to run...

i agree there is a lot of work ont he gold coast especially in the robina area otherwise move to brisbane

[#Metro]

Wow. Oster card fares are seriously confusing.
Keep it simple.

[stephenk]

Wow. Oster card fares are seriously confusing.
Keep it simple.

They are actually pretty simple in reality.

I used Oyster when I lived in London, with a weekly ticket (on Oyster) and then pay-as-go credit for the occasions when I travelled out of my zones. It worked well, and I never had any problems.

When I've been back to London as a tourist, I used pay-as-you-go, which automatically caps you at the daily ticket rate for the zones and time (peak or of-peak) you have travelled. For a tourist doing lots of travelling in one day, you won't need to pay for each and every journey as you will have to in Brisbane.

[ozbob]

Media Release 18 October 2009

SEQ:  More ticketing options for go card needed

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has called for daily, weekly, monthly and yearly ticketing options to be added to the go card.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The new fare strategy is clearly designed to encourage public transport commuters in south-east Queensland to take up the go card.  The inclusion of off peak options on the go card is a very significant improvement and is welcome."

"However, the eventual loss of the periodical paper ticketing will impact severely on many commuters and in the interim paper tickets are facing a huge cost rise from January 2010."

"The new go card fares are set at the 2007 single fare paper cost.  This means though that users of periodical paper tickets are facing very significant increases in their public transport costs.  For example the soon to be phased out 12 month QR rail pass for zone 15 travel costs $2990.  Under the new go card fare structure the equivalent go card fare cost will be $4320.  This is an increase of 46 per cent.  The projected annual fare increases of 15 per cent per annum for the next five years will further add to these financial impacts."

"What is needed is similar fare options as is the case for the Oyster card in London (2).  Daily, weekly, monthly and yearly ticket options should be added to the go card as further affordable ticketing options before January 2010.  This would also further encourage go card uptake."

"The go card environment also needs to be radically improved.  Some things for consideration include much improved administrative support, online forms for refund of fixed fares, stepped up education and help booths for new users.  An amnesty period for new users would be a good idea, particularly if the fixed fares penalties are increased (presently $3 bus/ferry, $5 rail, planned to be $5 bus/ferry $10 rail - concession half of those) this will be essential or again lots of grief in the streets.   More go card  readers at rail stations is necessary to cope with the peak surges.  There will be considerable flack from commuters I expect if this is not done."

References:

1.   http://www.translink.com.au/alert.php?id=173

2.   http://oystercard.110mb.com/fares.htm

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

<--- he is back!   

[Paul.Zenon]

Thankyou Robert for your press release, I do hope it has some effect and the media report on it.

Can I highlight to you that your calculations are based on 48 weeks and not 52 weeks as is my current 12 month train ticket.

And as my wife pointed out to me earlier, if Translink did apply a monthly block of travel on go card it would be exactly as was pointed out in my previous post.

Fares for monthly tickets in 2010 are already published. If Translink permits go card users to also apply monthly blocks of time on our cards it will be at the published rates. This is what I used originally 12 x 1 month published ticket prices.

The new go card product, if approved means that our travel costs increase by 70% each year and that my wife and I will pay over $10,000 to travel on our trains. Then please keep in mind that this will increase another 15% each year after that.

[ozbob]

No worries Paul.  This has always been a major issue for us.  See --> http://backontrack.org/mbs/index.php?topic=135.msg279#msg279

I have used a fair estimate for go travel so it is difficult for anyone to counter     It would possibly be a bit higher, particularly if extra trips made.

If capping is made available on the go card it would not be at the paper rates, it would be cheaper than the published paper rates I would expect.   The London Oyster card is a good model for this, and uses the same technology as the go card.  (see  http://oystercard.110mb.com/fares.htm )

I am convinced that this failure to properly offer the equivalent of periodical paper tickets on the go card will have significant electoral impact.

Cheers ..

[Paul.Zenon]

I am convinced that this failure to properly offer the equivalent of periodical paper tickets on the go card will have significant electoral impact.

We both pray that you are correct.

This may be the only way the government sees some compassion.

Thankyou again.

[ozbob]

Thanks, you are  most welcome!   More folks on board the better!

[ozbob]

Paul, the Courier Mail has followed up.  Thanks CM.

==========================

From the Courier Mail click here!

Commuters demand Go Card discount packages

Commuters demand Go Card discount packages
Article from: The Courier-Mail

Patrick Lion

October 20, 2009 11:00pm

COMMUTERS are demanding Go Card discounts, claiming some travellers will be up to $1400 a year worse off under even before massive fare hikes begin.

Lobby group Back on Track has raised concerns over the impact of the new fare structure on high-use travellers currently using weekly or monthly paper tickets, which will be phased out.

For example, a current Queensland Rail pass for 15 zones between Brisbane and Robina costs $2990 for 12 months.

But under the new system implemented in January, a Go Card user travelling five days a week would be slugged $4320 a year.

This bill would continue to rise 15 per cent a year until 2014.

The Government has attempted to claim the fare rises are necessary to ensure southeast Queensland has a world-class public transport system similar to New York or London.

However, commuters in both those cities pay a flat fare for unlimited use of their smartcards over a day, week, fortnight or three month-period.

Transport Minister Rachel Nolan last night dismissed the schemes and backed her option.

"We have opted to reward frequent customers with a 50 per cent discount when more than 10 journeys are taken in a Monday to Sunday week," she said in a statement.

However, Back on Track spokesman Robert Dow said the Government's research showed 95 per cent of commuters took 10 or fewer trips a week and would therefore not get the discount.

"We are very concerned about the cost impact on high users who travel five days a week (10 trips) and may be forced back on to the roads," Mr Dow said.

"They haven't looked at options for high-use travellers to use public transport."

The criticism comes after the group initially gave broad support to the measures last week when The Courier-Mail revealed the new strategy aimed at pushing commuters from paper tickets to the hi-tech Go Card.

Go Card fares will initially rise about 20 per cent from January 4 while commuters who linger on paper tickets will be slugged up to 40 per cent.

But the increases until 2014 will be far greater, with most fares to rise about 110 per cent over five years.

For example, an adult five-zone trip will rise from the present $3.44 to $7.19 in January, 2014.

[nocost]

Thank you Oz.
With Go-card the Queensland govt. has decided that public transport can pay for itself!
My bus and train use today cost $2.20. On Go-card it would be $5.95.
Daily,Weekly, etc. fares need to be available.
It is sad folly to think that public transport can break even. Or does the government need to pay off the 100,s of million dollars roll out costs to Cisco Systems?

[ozbob]

You are most welcome nocost.  There are gains to be made with the go but unless there are some dramatic improvements I just see a trail of grief along and between both ends of George St ...

===================================

Media Release 30 October 2009

SEQ:  Ticketing options and improvements for go card needed

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has again called for daily caps and periodical ticketing options to be added to the go card.

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"The new fare strategy is clearly designed to encourage public transport commuters in south-east Queensland to take up the go card.  The inclusion of off peak options on the go card is a very significant improvement and is welcome (1)."

"However, the eventual loss of the periodical paper ticketing will impact severely on many commuters and in the interim paper tickets are facing a huge cost rise from January 2010.  RAIL Back On Track has been inundated with critical feedback from disgruntled commuters who are facing massive cost rises in their cost of travel.  Many have indicated that they may have no alternative other than to go back to the congestion chaos on the roads. This is a perverse outcome."

"The new go card fares are set at the 2007 single fare paper cost.  This means though that users of periodical paper tickets are facing very significant increases in their public transport costs.  For example the soon to be phased out 12 month QR rail pass for zone 15 travel costs $2990.  Under the new go card fare structure the equivalent go card fare cost (48 weeks travel) will be $4320.  This is an increase of 46 per cent.  The projected annual fare increases of 15 per cent per annum for the next five years will further add to these financial impacts."

"What is needed is similar fare options as is the case for the Oyster card in London (2) and the Melbourne Myki card (3).  Daily caps and periodical ticket options should be added to the go card as further affordable ticketing options for high use commuters before January 2010.  This would also further encourage go card uptake."

"The go card environment also needs to be radically improved.  Some things for consideration include much improved administrative support, online forms for refund of fixed fares, stepped up education and help booths for new users.  An amnesty period for new users would be a good idea, particularly if the fixed fares penalties are increased (presently $3 bus/ferry, $5 rail, planned to be $5 bus/ferry $10 rail - concession half of those) this will be essential or again lots of grief in the streets.   More go card  readers at rail stations is necessary to cope with the peak surges.  There will be considerable flack from commuters I expect if this is not done."

"A clear and unambiguous statement is needed from TransLink as to when go card users can travel in an untouched state. For many users they encounter problems in knowing if they have successfully touched on due the the position and state of the touch devices on stations and buses.  It is not unusual for go card equipment to be in a failed state on buses, and sometimes on rail stations.  Often the screens are scratched, moisture affected or the glare is such that they are not readable.  Additionally the audible beeps often fail or are not heard due to background noise.  How long before a commuter who, thinking they have touched on with credit on their go card, is fined for fare evasion due to faulty equipment?  Is this encouraging a seamless transition to 100% go card?  We think not."

"It is all very well declaring that paper tickets are to be phased out but unless there is much focus on go card improvements including more fares and comprehensive support there will be significant resistance and anger from the public."


References:

1.   http://www.translink.com.au/alert.php?id=173

2.   http://oystercard.110mb.com/fares.htm

3.   http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/assets/PDFs/2009-Fares-and-Ticketing-Manual/MYKI-Ticketing-manual.pdf

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[Fridge]

I caught the 620 from Noosa Heads to Maroochydore yesterday afternoon and the bus driver gave a mother and daughter a free ride from Peregian to Coolum because the paper prices are too high, there was discussion on the bus about how high the fares are and no one seemed annoyed that the driver gave these 2 free passage.  They were the only passengers on this trip who didn't have GoCards.

[ozbob]

Due to the relative high cost of paper fares now, the paper singles, we have been promoting passengers to use the go card.  High cost, low zone paper singles impact significantly all over the network.  The real test is what the new government will do other than the 9 journey cap on go card.