Article: Packed like sardines

[ozbob]

From the Albert & Logan News 8th September 2010 page one.

Packed like sardines

Packed like sardines
RAIL RAGE: LOGAN RESIDENTS CRY OUT FOR EXTRA TRAIN SERVICES DURING MORNING PEAK HOUR
JESSICA BAYFIELD

LOGAN rail commuters are feeling the strain as they battle for seats on the congested Gold Coast to Brisbane peak hour services.

When the Varsity Lakes to Airport Express arrives at Beenleigh Station each morning, barely a handful of seats are left for Logan passengers. Travellers instead stand for about 30 minutes during a rough ride to the next stop. Wolfdene resident Amber Davidson, 21, travels by train from Beenleigh to Brisbane at least three times a week and she said up to 15 people could be standing in one carriage.

Ms Davidson said she always had to stand if she left Beenleigh before 9am. She takes the train to avoid traffic congestion and believes Logan commuters catching the Gold Coast line would benefit from extra trains in peak times. "It almost feels like Queensland Rail don't realise a lot of people who live in Logan work in town," she said.

"But I don't see how they could put extra trains on the track. "I think the whole public transport system needs a complete overhaul."

State Member for Coomera Michael Crandon said adding two trains during peak times could alleviate the problem in the short term. "The northern Gold Coast community, which includes the electorates of Gaven, Albert, Broadwater and Coomera desperately need these extra services," he said.

"With the M1 becoming more overcrowded every day, this initiative would be a win for all commuters, both on rail and road." A Queensland Rail spokesman said eight inbound trains serviced the Gold Coast and Logan line between 6am and 9am.


"The core peak time is when trains arrive at Central Station in Brisbane between 7.30-8.30am and there is no ability to add extra trains at that time," the spokesman said.

"Outside the core peak times, adding extra trains would not make a difference for increasing available seating."

Crikey,  what a silly statement

Outside the core peak times, adding extra trains would not make a difference for increasing available seating

Rubbish, use incentive fares on the go card, give punters a real choice!  Mindsets of yesterday ...  much work to be done!

[#Metro]

"With the M1 becoming more overcrowded every day, this initiative would be a win for all commuters, both on rail and road." A Queensland Rail spokesman said eight inbound trains serviced the Gold Coast and Logan line between 6am and 9am.

Yes, and there are 18 services (more than double) departing Mandurah station in Perth,  between 6am-9am.
And Mandurah is a sleepy town of 85 000 residents who live 70 km from Perth CBD! (Gold Coast 400 000, wiki).

"The core peak time is when trains arrive at Central Station in Brisbane between 7.30-8.30am and there is no ability to add extra trains at that time," the spokesman said.

This is probably true. It's quite congested, no doubt due to the Merivale Bridge and Ipswich Line trains. Cross River Rail is needed. Would a signal upgrade to allow 24 trains per hour through help much?

"Outside the core peak times, adding extra trains would not make a difference for increasing available seating."

That's odd. I didn't know QR had trains with no seats? This person probably meant that "it would not help relieve peak hour congestion on the train", but this might not be true either- because if you add more services in the off peak, people can shift to fill them.

Once again, too busy thinking about PT as being a peak hour journey to work thing, when it should be all day every day approach.

[somebody]

But Mandurah doesn't have to compete with the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines for CBD paths.

What is needed (IMO) is an appropriate timetable for the Beenleigh line here.  That way, there won't be an incentive to let the Beenleigh all stopping train go and wait for the Gold Coast train, or at least it would be reduced.

As for there being no capacity for more trains, that flies in the face of the ICRCS which said that there was capacity for 23-25tph on the suburbans.  Can't remember the exact figure.

[#Metro]

But Mandurah doesn't have to compete with the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines for CBD paths.

That's because our system has choke points in it and all sorts of capacity disabling problems with it!

[somebody]

But Mandurah doesn't have to compete with the Beenleigh and Cleveland lines for CBD paths.

That's because our system has choke points in it and all sorts of capacity disabling problems with it!

Any railway has a lot of limitations.  While you should eliminate the limitations where that is achievable, the challenge is to get the most out of the network, not to have a system with no limitations.

I'm pretty underwhelmed with the arrangements for the Richlands branch though.

[#Metro]

Any railway has a lot of limitations.  While you should eliminate the limitations where that is achievable, the challenge is to get the most out of the network, not to have a system with no limitations.

Nobody is asking for the impossible. Capacity limiting choke points should be dealt with, not ignored and allowed to snowball.
The fact that Mandurah can get better service levels than the Gold Coast is just embarrassing.

[#Metro]

The Gold Coast rail line will need more trains on it; once the Light Rail service opens and begins feeding the train system, I predict patronage will just increase massively.

[somebody]

Nobody is asking for the impossible. Capacity limiting choke points should be dealt with, not ignored and allowed to snowball.
The fact that Mandurah can get better service levels than the Gold Coast is just embarrassing.

I think that the 30 minute frequency to the Gold Coast is excellent.  The issue is the 30 minute frequency on the Beenleigh line.

Remember much of the track to the Gold Coast went in something like 100 years ago.  Of course it has limitations today!  Roads built in the 1960s seem crappy to us today in the same way.  The Mandurah line is all new, of course it is better!

The Gold Coast rail line will need more trains on it; once the Light Rail service opens and begins feeding the train system, I predict patronage will just increase massively.

A possibility.  Stage 2 of the GC LR probably lines up with CRR1 at a guess.

[#Metro]

I think that the 30 minute frequency to the Gold Coast is excellent.  The issue is the 30 minute frequency on the Beenleigh line.

I disagree on this point of view. The Gold Coast line is also fairly recent in the way that rail lines go. The original line was ripped up in the 1960s, the current line IIRC went in from 1997. The trains being run on the line are the same ones QR is using on the Gold Coast line, made by the same manufacturer.

15 minutes off peak (even 20 as a compromise) should be the standard to somewhere as big as the Gold Coast. "Technical problems" aside, Mandurah is a far smaller place with significantly less people, and that line supports trains every 15 minutes. There is no reason, apart from poor frequency suppressing trips, why the population of the Gold Coast should not be able to support trains to Brisbane every 15 minutes.

Its been done with BUZ in Brisbane, Its been applied to trains in Perth, it can be applied on the QR train system here.

[somebody]

But the Gold Coast Line is really just an extension of the Beenleigh line.  While the bit beyond Beenleigh is new, this isn't really where the problem is.  Speeds are:
Central-Beenleigh (express) 41.1km in 46mins = 53.6km/h average speed
Beenleigh-Robina 43.9km in 30 minutes = 87.8km/h average speed.  This slows down a fair bit Robina-Varsity Lakes, and I'm excluding that as it doesn't have a reasonable timetable.

Its been done with BUZ in Brisbane, Its been applied to trains in Perth, it can be applied on the QR train system here.

True, but except for the 130/140/150 most BUZes don't go very far.  First thing is to up the frequency on the inner parts where the sensitivity is higher.

[O_128]

But the Gold Coast Line is really just an extension of the Beenleigh line.  While the bit beyond Beenleigh is new, this isn't really where the problem is.  Speeds are:
Central-Beenleigh (express) 41.1km in 46mins = 53.6km/h average speed
Beenleigh-Robina 43.9km in 30 minutes = 87.8km/h average speed.  This slows down a fair bit Robina-Varsity Lakes, and I'm excluding that as it doesn't have a reasonable timetable.

Its been done with BUZ in Brisbane, Its been applied to trains in Perth, it can be applied on the QR train system here.

True, but except for the 130/140/150 most BUZes don't go very far.  First thing is to up the frequency on the inner parts where the sensitivity is higher.

87.8km an hour seems to be so slow, for perfectly straight rail why not at least above 100km average speed?

[somebody]

87.8km an hour seems to be so slow, for perfectly straight rail why not at least above 100km average speed?

You have to make station stops in that though.  Perhaps could be a bit better, but I doubt about 100km/h average with 130-140km/h max speed and stops.

[somebody]

And more to the point, what is the point of making the south of Beenleigh bit faster when you have the awfully slow bit north of Beenleigh?

[#Metro]

By putting more trains on, with no change in speed to the vehicle, commuters can save 7.5 minutes on average with some up to 15 minutes off a trip to the Gold Coast, simply by cutting waiting time at the platform.

This might cause a problem with GC trains overtaking Beenleigh trains, but if the government thinks that it can get away with 30 minutes off peak forever and not come under increased passenger load at some time in the future, they are dreaming!!!

BTW, GC services are every 15 minutes in the pm peak (5:14 pm, 5:27 pm, 5:39 pm and 5:55pm) as well as in the am peak (6:04 am, 6:18 am, 6:34 am, 6:49 am), so I am a bit skeptical about the idea that "there is no room for more GC trains in the off peak". 

[somebody]

By putting more trains on, with no change in speed to the vehicle, commuters can save 7.5 minutes on average with some up to 15 minutes off a trip to the Gold Coast, simply by cutting waiting time at the platform.

This might cause a problem with GC trains overtaking Beenleigh trains, but if the government thinks that it can get away with 30 minutes off peak forever and not come under increased passenger load at some time in the future, they are dreaming!!!

BTW, GC services are every 15 minutes in the pm peak (5:14 pm, 5:27 pm, 5:39 pm and 5:55pm) as well as in the am peak (6:04 am, 6:18 am, 6:34 am, 6:49 am), so I am a bit skeptical about the idea that "there is no room for more GC trains in the off peak". 

7.5 minutes is a meagre saving in a journey time over 1 hour.

Regarding the peak frequency, don't you get it?  There are 3 tracks to Kuraby.  Two tracks are needed to run in a given direction and have a 15 minute Gold Coast frequency.  It is not possible to do this in both directions simultaneously.  4/5 tracks to Yeerongpilly or beyond should make it possible though.

The fact is that the Gold Coast line is never going to be competitive with road off peak, unless there could be a completely new alignment Beenleigh-city.  Not happening.  Although CRR1 should shave a few minutes off the journey, which won't hurt.

To be honest, I find the 15 minute frequency Northgate-Corinda a little unsatisfactory, and would far rather a 10 minute frequency.  But further afield locations aren't likely to make 4 trips/day and the frequency is a smaller deal.  I would rather this occur before the Gold Coast frequency was upgraded above the 30 minute mark.

[#Metro]

7.5 minutes is a meagre saving in a journey time over 1 hour.

Perhaps not the fastest or greatest time saving, but when you consider $465 million is being spent on the Eastern Busway 1km section to save ... 9 minutes..., perhaps it is not so bad.

It will also increase the frequency (and nothing better boosts patronage on a PT system), boosts seats, spreads peak loadings, gives people more choice over when they want to travel, and is something quick to do using existing rollingstock (not waiting around for this tilt train business).

Regarding the peak frequency, don't you get it?  There are 3 tracks to Kuraby.  Two tracks are needed to run in a given direction and have a 15 minute Gold Coast frequency.  It is not possible to do this in both directions simultaneously.  4/5 tracks to Yeerongpilly or beyond should make it possible though.

Hmm. Yes, now I see. can't have 15 minutes in both directions at the same time apparently... still a problem that can't be ignored...