What improvements to the Sunshine Coast line need to be done?

[#Metro]

People have mentioned

* more trains
* clock-face timetable
* all day express, like gold coast line
* replace rail shuttles with hourly service as far as landsborough
* upgraded service at least to Landsborough
* extend trains to 6 car
* more stabling
* track duplications

I was just thinking of getting this all in one thread so that it would be easy to write something about.

 

[ozbob]

Transcript of online meeting 9th August 2010 which discussed Sunshine Coast Line timetable as one of the topics:


================

Second topic was the Sunshine Coast Line Timetable

ozbob   We can move on to the second topic, dear and near to us all
   ozbob   the Sunny Coast NON Timetable
      someone who cares left.
   ozbob   Fridge can't attend. But posted these comments earlier.
   ozbob   Fridge: The main points I wanted to throw out there for discussion (keeping in mind I'm an ideas man, not operationally aware like some Smiley ) 1. The off-peak gaps, especially the counter peak services need to be plugged. The Sunshine Coast is meant to be a destination but it's difficult to travel there and back from Brisbane way, the weekend is worst. There are Railbuses but only one north and southbound bus make 605 and 615 connections at Landsborough. 2. Improve waiting times at Nambour and Landsborough for rail and bus connections, waiting times of excess of 20mins for dedicated connections is rubbish 3. Cut the fat in the timetable, when the Beerburrum duplication was completed only 2 services had fat trimmed from the 7-day timetable, they can amend the whole North Coast operation to take into account the removal of the Tilt Train speed restrictions in a couple of months and it's been more than a year and nothing has been done for the Sunshine Coast Timetable. 4. There needs to be a regular timetable, not a random mis-mash of opportunities for travel 5. The Landsborough terminators I've mentioned - see here: http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4209.0
   somebody   My thinking is hourly to Landsborough with the extension to Nambour only 2 hourly and railbuses to Nambour meeting Landsborough
   somebody   that's meeting the Landsborough terminators
   tramtrain   My thinking is a Royal Commission into why the service is so poor.
   somebody   Even if the Nambour trains are only 3 hourly with railbuses meeting 2/3 of the trains at Landsborough would be an improvement
   ozbob   yes
   Arnz   same with above. Weekend timetable (working around the freight traffic restrictions north of Beerburrum) should be at least 2-hourly clockface to Nambour (no Landsborough terminators). The vast majority of the ICE fleet, as well as IMUs used where possible.
   ClintonL94   I believe there are plently of IMUs for this job
   tramtrain   2 hourly is not good enough. Minimum standard for anywhere should be hourly. If that means special short trains, so be it.
   ozbob   We had an IMU on an Ippy down in the peak last Tuesday morning ..
   Arnz   IMU101 worked in place of the ICE shuttle this afternoon.
   ozbob   Folks even used the toilet .. LOL
   tramtrain   (potential misinterpretation- does 2 hourly mean every 2 hours or 2 per hour (every 30 minutes))
   somebody   To be honest, I don't think we should insist on hourly Landsborough-Nambour as they would have difficulty getting freight through with that service
   ozbob   whilst the hapless Nambour punters sat in EMUs with legs crossed ... for 2 hours
   ClintonL94   2 IMU 100 series do 2 Kuraby starters in morning peak
   somebody   2 hourly = every 2 hours
   tramtrain   Well the track should be upgraded, not the service cut back
   Arnz   2 hourly (with buses inbetween the gap). There are freights imposing restrictions on the weekend north of Beerburrum
   Arnz   Weekend service is worse than 2 hour gaps in some cases.
   Arnz   eg 12:00pm (Ex-Roma Street) and 3:45pm on a Saturday afternoon departing Caboolture northbound
   ClintonL94   and a few months back all the weekend services I've caught were 3 car units - has this been fixed?
   somebody   There's quite a few crossing oportunities as far as Landsborough, although they may require the pax train waiting for the freight
   ozbob   I would like to see a daily GYMPIE NORTH counter peak like Sunday
   tramtrain   I wonder what the comparable services in Victoria are like, They use the fast train too
   ozbob   VLine is booming!! I kid you not
   ozbob   expanding rapidly, Maryborough the latest, Clunes next
   somebody   July 2008 saw 1.1mil pax on V/Line
   ClintonL94   Whats the speed for that line?..
   ozbob   why? frequency, frequency raised to the power of frequency
   somebody   160km/h
   ClintonL94   nice just like our tilts
   tramtrain   Even at extremely low densities, rail is viable
   ClintonL94   Just a bit of random off topic question..
   somebody   providing a competitive travel time helps heaps
   ClintonL94   if QR has faster passenger trains
   ClintonL94   would the speed on the gold coast line increase?
   Arnz   tbh, (dream/fantasy mode), I'd like to see the ICEs used for something meaningful, such as a longer distance service to Maryborough for example (under the Regional QConnect banner of course)
   ClintonL94   max speed*
   ozbob   I caught a DMU Velocity last Thursday morning at Drouin. Half hour trains and Drouin is well into Gippsland
   ClintonL94   surely the alignment on the gold coast line can support faster trains
   tramtrain   The journey times could be cut without increasing the speed of the trains. You can do this simply by cutting the waiting time at the platform- by increasing the frequency
   somebody   GC can do 140km/h but the IMU160 series are only good for 130km/h with better accelleration
   somebody   That's not journey time
   tramtrain   I know, last week me waiting for a train took longer than the journey itself!
   ozbob   Fridge is a North Coast commuter
   ozbob   1. The off-peak gaps, especially the counter peak services need to be plugged. The Sunshine Coast is meant to be a destination but it's difficult to travel there and back from Brisbane way, the weekend is worst. There are Railbuses but only one north and southbound bus make 605 and 615 connections at Landsborough.
   tramtrain   Stop spacing is important. You can have a very fast train, but if the stops are too close, it won't be much use
   tramtrain   Waiting time does factor into journey time
   somebody   I wouldn't mess with the Nambour line. It's reasonably widely spaced
   tramtrain   the frequency for those buses must be increased
   tramtrain   as must the train frequency
   tramtrain   CAMCOS should also be builty
   ClintonL94   I think that the shuttles from caboolture-nambour-caboolture should be increased
   Arnz   The weekend timetables need to be rationalised, 2hr gap followed by a 3hr gap, etc isnt cutting it. Needs to be a clockface (at least 2-hourly), with buses inbetween the 2 hour gap (taking into consideration the freights)
   ozbob   The weeknight gap 7.27 to 9.28pm needs more than a rail bus, should be a train leaving central at 8.27pm
   ClintonL94   atleast hourly
   somebody   I can't go along with railbuses meeting other buses either
   Arnz   Merging the saturday and sunday timetables would help nicely, with a few exceptions (eg the Sunday Gympie service)
   somebody   I think they should abolish the shuttles
   tramtrain   What is the patronage like. I have an idea
   somebody   Totally agree. Sat & Sun should be the same
   Arnz   Peak patronage is fairly crowded, off-peak patronage varies on Weekend/Holiday traffic
   Arnz   eg the first 2 morning Nambour-Roma Street trains (only 3-car units) are overcrowded by the time it leaves Glass House Mountains
   ozbob   I have used the GYN on sunday and it was chockers!
   somebody   AM peak was 873 in 2009
   tramtrain   So that is pretty much a full train.
   somebody   A chockers one, or two reasonable ones
   ClintonL94   Note: the first 2 trains are both 3 car units
   tramtrain   And it would be more if more people could get to the station
   tramtrain   more 3 cars at higher frequency is good
   somebody   There's a reason why most railways are abolishing short trains
   ozbob   Yes Arnz, I saw the first train from Nambour a few weeks back at the Valley and it was overloaded. We should press for immediate upgrades to 6 car trains
   tramtrain   Do they run express from Caboolture?
   Arnz   Most do..
   ClintonL94   the first 2 don't
   Arnz   Incorrect, the first 2 trains do operate express
   Arnz   stopping at petrie and northgate
   ozbob   why are they running 3 cars? Crazy??
   tramtrain   What about a permanent, all day express? Like the gold coast line?
   ClintonL94   Sorry, I thought you mean full express(caboolture to bowen hills)
   somebody   Also, Eagle Junction is a more sensible stop than Northgate
   ClintonL94   @Bob thats all the depot can hold
   ozbob   really? They need to fix it
   Arnz   I always personally thought that Northgate should be swapped out for Eagle Junction for Sunshine Coast trains, have the Shorncliffe/Doomben/Airport trains interchange at the one stop.
   ClintonL94   I am not sure if any trains come from caboolture depot but this should be upgraded
   ClintonL94   the depot is definately getting upgraded in the duplication buts thats too far away...
   somebody   Yep, I think we need to press for the depot upgrade to be brought forward
   Arnz   or the Landsborough Siding, as I mentioned earlier. The triangle could be replaced with a electrified siding/turnback, enabling Landsborough terminators/overnighters.
   somebody   Perhaps they can store trains at Gympie North
   tramtrain   I think the entire line has needs to be prioritised. Much work for QR to do over the entire network.
   ozbob   agree TT
   tramtrain   At least 20 years worth of backlog.
   somebody   I was taking all day expresses as a given
   ClintonL94   Gympie North's Depot can fit 1 6 car train
   ozbob   it is diabolical that the service is lagging because of the infrastructure neglect
   tramtrain   Oh, its everywhere- Cleveland line single track etc etc
   ClintonL94   there are spare tracks most times not in use at Gympie - Just electicfy them..
   somebody   Probably GYN depot & Nambour both need upgrades
   Arnz   Nambour can fit 4 trains all up (3 in the yard and 1 on the dock platform)
   ClintonL94   4 in the yard actually Arnz
   tramtrain   It would be good to have all the sunshine coast improvements ultimately listed- I will make a thread for this
   ozbob   Arnz? can they realistically run the first services as 6 car?
   somebody   If the first outbound service turns around at Landsborough that makes the depot problem less severe
   Arnz   The first 2 services are 3-car IMUs, they would need to find another 2x 3-car IMUs, or run the evening 3-car IMUs as 6-car IMUs for the next morning
   ozbob   can do then ..
   Arnz   As more IMUs are delivered, we seem to be getting the IMU100/120 "hand-me-downs" from the Gold Coast Line, which is understandable.
   somebody   Actually, putting the IMU160s there makes more sense as they have better acceleration and lower top speed
   ozbob   I have sometimes thought that running Nambour to Varsity Lakes with the new IMUs would be neat ..
   somebody   Yes, but that has some conflicting moves
   ozbob   ::laugh
   ClintonL94   Nambour - http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-26.62638,152.957835&z=18&t=k&nmd=20100125
   ozbob   What are the priorities?
   Arnz   not really, they could run the suburban tracks into central, then proceed as normal. There used to be a Nambour-Robina service in the 2000 timetable (prior to Airtrain opening)
   ozbob   1. six car trains?
   ClintonL94   Yes - but need more depot space
   ozbob   2. fix the obvious gaps
   somebody   2. upgraded rail service as far as Landsborough
   Arnz   rationalise the weekend timetable
   ClintonL94   or run early "special" trains from mayne
   Arnz   2hr gap, followed by a 3hr gap just confuses people
   ozbob   Yes for sure Arnz, it is a mishmash
   ClintonL94   somebody did you say to remove the rail shuttles completely?
   somebody   Yep.
   ClintonL94   and replace them with..?
   ozbob   OK there are some points we can work on there. I am sure will be of wider interest too.
   somebody   hourly service at least as far as Landsborough
   ClintonL94   that form from roma street?
   somebody   Yep. Would need to use the middle road with a 15 minute CAB timetable
   Arnz   One point I want to bring up, as I mentioned in the past is the 11:11am Nambour-Caboolture weekday shuttle. It sits in the CAB yard for 3 hrs when it arrives at Caboolture around 12:20pm
   Arnz   That would be better off continuing to Roma STreet, and sitting at Mayne
   ozbob   Yes Arnz.
   Arnz   and if theres a problem with the train, it can be easily swapped for a afternoon express arriving Caboolture around 3:53pm, then proceed as per current timetable
   Arnz   makes it easier to swap trains at Mayne if the ICE fails
   ozbob   :-)
   ClintonL94   It may have problems expressing between caboolture and petrie
   ClintonL94   the Ipswich all stoppers leaves at 12:02 and the express leaves at 12:05
   ClintonL94   just change it so the express runs before the all stopper for a connection too
   Arnz   yea it would mean having to adjust the 11:11am service a bit if its to run to Roma Street/Mayne depot, it crosses the Tilt Train at Beerburrum as of current
   somebody   gains 5 mins on an all stopper CAB-PET
   ClintonL94   Hmm I forgot about the Narangba third road
   Arnz   Petrie Third Platform too
   somebody   I think all trains have a lot of fat in the timetable north of PET
   ozbob   Any more final comments on sunshine coast TT at this time?
   ozbob   I will tidy this transcript up and post it. It might lead to some further discussions, but importantly will be read by others ...
   Mozz   true - the first one generated a lot of comment
   Arnz   I'll probably look at re-writing the weekend timetable for the Sunshine Coast TT when I have the timetable (taking into consideration the Traveltrain crosses), both the Sat/Sunday TTs seem a bit mismashed ridiculous, both imo should be almost the same where possible (With few exceptions - eg Sunday
   ozbob   Thanks for attending this meeting all. If you have ideas for future meetings please post on the board

[ozbob]

Media Release 10 August 2010

SEQ:  Sunshine Coast line is not shining

RAIL Back On Track (http://backontrack.org) a web based community support group for rail and public transport and an advocate for public transport commuters has again called for an increase in train frequency and upgrades on the Sunshine Coast line.

The most important factor to encourage public transport use is that services must be frequent, bottom line. A recent statement by the Minister for Tourism and Fair Trading campaign aiming to entice more Aussies to the Sunshine Coast highlights the disconnect between various Government departments (1).  The appalling rail timetable for the Sunshine Coast acts as a major disincentive for tourists to visit and complicates the daily life of Citizens in the Sunshine Coast with such poor public transport support (2).

Robert Dow, Spokesman for RAIL Back On Track said:

"A number of urgent improvements to the Sunshine Coast line are needed to boost service quality and patronage on this line. RAIL Back On Track strongly supports the Beerburrum-Landsborough duplication, and CAMCOS (Caloundra and Maroochydore Corridor Options Study) railway line to Maroochydore and beyond. Immediate actions are needed though."

"An increase in train frequency is required as morning peak hour trains can be very crowded, even the weekend service from Gympie North on a Sunday afternoon is well patronised and usually overloaded by Nambour. A regular and reliable clock-face timetable with hourly or at bare minimum a service every two hours is needed, as is the filling of major service gaps in the timetable. Few people are willing to wait more than an hour for a train to get home."

"The crowded early morning peak services should be upgraded from current short-train 3 car  to 6 car trains, or more trains put on so that more people can catch a service that isn't crowded. More train stabling at stations on the Sunshine Coast line should also be considered as a priority."

"The integration between bus and rail needs an urgent review in conjunction with the rail service increases.  Long waits for connecting buses are also anti-public transport."

"Gympie North should have a service frequency upgrade, and at least two extra daily services between Gympie North and Brisbane should be established."

"All trains north of Caboolture should be toilet equipped Interurban Multiple Unit or Inter Capital Express trains.  Commuters are increasingly  locked out of toilets at stations and often the trains are older units that do not have toilets. This is not acceptable, hapless commuters sitting with legs crossed for hours."

"It is interesting to note that Melbourne is actively upgrading its regional and country rail services, and is recording dramatic increases in passenger growth as a direct result of this. For example, VLine services to Geelong are so busy that VLine has now taken the unusual step of publishing the morning timetable on its website with passenger loadings, so that passengers can avoid overcrowded trains, with 4 services in the morning and 4 in the afternoon peaks being over 80% full (3).

"What commuters and tourists want is very simple:

1. More trains, more often, and
2. A regular, reliable buses that will take them to their local station in time to catch the train."

"The public transport arrangements to and from the Sunshine Coast are a long way from 'world class', they are in fact barely fourth class.  It is time that urgent direct action was taken to fix this appalling situation."

References:

1.  http://statements.cabinet.qld.gov.au/MMS/StatementDisplaySingle.aspx?id=71006

2.  http://railbotforum.org/mbs/index.php?topic=4183.msg31509#msg31509

3.  http://www.vline.com.au/community/home/howbusy.html

Contact:

Robert Dow
Administration
admin@backontrack.org

[#Metro]

Have a copy of the new Sunshine Coast rail timetable. non-timetable.

The rail bus looks very random. For example, the 7:30am ex Caboolture rail bus does not stop at Australia Zoo. But the 8:25 one after it does, but it does not stop at Elimbah and Beerburrum. The one after that, at 9:25, stops at Beerburrum but does not stop at Mooloolah, Euldo, Palmwoods and Woombye. The following one also does not stop at Mooloolah, Euldo, Palmwoods and Woombye and also skips Elimbah and Beerburrum.

What a mess!  

The quickest, stop-gap, emergency solution is to put a rail bus on to meet every single train service that begins at Caboolture. This isn't ideal but it is better than nothing, quick and can be done sooner rather than later.

I've only dealt with weekdays in one direction. Fixes should be applied across the board.

This means Railbuses will need to be put on at the following times to meet the following Brisbane-bound trains:
5:38 am, 6:34am, 7:00am, 7:30am, 8:07 am, 11:02 am, 3:32pm, 4:32pm, 6:32pm, 9:32pm.

Some bus connection times should be fixed up, waits should not be longer than 10 minutes for a connection (times are arriving Caboolture).
Special mention for the 9:14am, 1:10pm, 2:45pm, 3:46pm, 5:48pm services.

[Fridge]

Some more thoughts...

The train between Nambour and Caboolture can take anywhere between 54-88mins to travel.  Many counter-peak services usually are the ones that wait to cross other services (peak, traveltrain and frieght) and can wait for 2-3 times the time needed to travel to the next station which is really frustrating because you sit at a station twiddling your thumbs.

When the freight train de-railed at Petrie a couple of years ago I caught a Nambour to Caboolture train a couple of times and it ran an all-green non-stop express to Caboolture as no other trains were operating and it was going to form the evening Gympie North to depart from Caboolture.  It took 40 mins to travel Nambour to Caboolture, there are 3 counter-peak services that take twice that time to travel (78, 82 and 88 mins).

What about constructing extra passing loops? Maybe 3, one between Beerburrum and Glasshouse, Glasshouse and Beerwah, Beerwah and Landsborough so services to Landsborough can be increased.  I can understand extending loops but wouldn't that have to be done along the length of the Northcoast line past Gympie?  But then again if extra passing loops are constructed it may be used for an excuse to not duplicate.  mmmmmmm...

The Maroochydore and Kawana/Caloundra train connections (615/605) at Landsborough are exactly what everyone wants as a feeder service, the waiting times for some of the connections need to be shorter though.  At Nambour the Noosa train connections are another story.  The 630/631 meet the trains but it's only one or the other, not both.  I suggest that the 631 become a regular 1/2 hour/hourly service and the 630 become the dedicated train connection that meets all trains at Nambour.  This reasoning is because the 631 connects Nambour, Yandina, Eumundi, Cooroy across to Tewantin and Noosa Heads, where the 630 travels express from Nambour to Eumundi to Noosaville and Noosa Heads.

[somebody]

I would not support extra passing loops south of Landsborough.  There's two platforms at every station at Landsborough unless I'm mistaken, so it's enough.

I definitely see a case for the Beerburrum-Landsborough duplication, but I also see a case for Landsborough terminators.  These could surely be done without infrastructure upgrades.